Episode 16

Shane Mercer [00:00:11]:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines. I'm your host, Shane Mercer, and today we've got two very special guests. No Andrew Pace not with us this week. Instead, we've got two very incredible members of inplayLIVE. We've got Mark Penelton, who is a coach at inplayLIVE, coming to us from Milton, Ontario. And we've got Craig Keating, a member in great standing, coming to us from Edmonton, Alberta. Guys, thank you so much for joining us.

Craig Keating [00:00:40]:

Thanks for having us Shane.

Shane Mercer [00:00:42]:

Yeah, today we brought these two guys on because we want to talk about mindset. All things about developing and maintaining a strong, resilient, winning mindset. And that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to dive into that in just a moment. But first I've got to remind all of you to like download, subscribe, follow us on all the socials @ inplayLIVE. And if you want to join and you want to become a member and see what the inside of the community looks like and what it's all about, we have a special promo code for you that is the Behind The Lines promo code. All caps 'BEHINDTHELINES'. All right, guys, with that stuff out of the way, before we really get into the mindset, we kind of need to know a little bit about your backgrounds and where you were coming from and sort of how you got to where you're at now. So Mark, I want to start with you. I think your story probably goes back almost two years to a year and a half or so, right? Tell us a little bit about how you started off and then kind of the struggles you had and then how you overcame them.

Mark Penelton [00:01:47]:

Yeah, started two years ago, maybe didn't join at the best time in terms of sporting landscape. A lot of the main sports were winding down or in the off season, but I actually did that on purpose. I wanted to give myself time to immerse myself, the community, build my education, really just prepare for the fall. That was kind of my mindset joining around this time. I think I should also mention too that this is 2021 and in Ontario we're going through lockdown after lockdown, and at the time I'm a hockey instructor going in and out of work constantly. So my life was pretty much just like pure chaos at this time. So it was really just trying to work on this on the side. And it was kind of always a dream to be a professional sports bettor. And it really wasn't until everything just started to align in the fall when everything kind of started to click mentally for me. I started to understand things a little bit better. And then I saw another lockdown kind of pending and I thought, okay, perfect, I'm going to have nothing on my plate and I'm just going to go all in on sports investing. And I had like a small bankroll I built up over a few months of getting bonuses and stuff like that. And then basically come the new year, 2022, I just took off. We were in lockdown and I just worked like crazy. Every stream, every league I could possibly bet on, I was and I just exploded. I just took off and went from like a four figure Bank World to six figures in five months. And I decided at that point I was ready to do this full time. So I quit my job a year ago to the day, and since then I've just been doing this full time and I've been coaching as well. So lots and challenges along the way that's kind of all the glamorous parts of the story. But really it's like there's been losing months and losing weeks and brutal losing days along the way, so it happens, but at the end of the day, I'm making so much more than I ever was doing my job before. So I consider myself, like, super blessed to be doing what I do and a part of the community that we're a part of.

Shane Mercer [00:04:14]:

Hey, congratulations, man. Nice work overall. And a big reason that I wanted to bring you both on the show is because you've both been so instrumental in my success and my journey at inplayLIVE and with the group. When I first joined, it was last summer, July 2022. And shortly after joining Mark, you were one of the first people that I really kind of connected with. And a big part of it was for me, just sort of like, is this a scam or not? I was still in that phase, right? Is this a scam? I'm sort of feeling it out, trying to sort of navigate it to kind of get a sense. And I'm like, Let me have a conversation with this guy. He lives in my province. Let me have a conversation with him and sort of see what his journey has been like and how legit this is. And as soon as I talked to you, Mark, I could tell that you were coming from a place of complete honesty. It was totally genuine. You weren't trying to make inplayLIVE out to be something that it isn't, which is a get rich quick scheme. You weren't sort of trying to convince me to stay a member. You were just sharing your journey and sort of where it brought you. And to me, that conversation early on lent a lot of credibility to the community. And it's a big reason as to why I stayed through that first couple of months, because I kind of knew that I believed you. I believed this guy story. And to me, that it felt like I could replicate that or at least find some success similar too. And then I suppose it was probably only a month or maybe a month or so later, Craig, that you and I started to chat over the discord in inplayLIVE. And for all of you who are listening out there that don't sort of understand the ins and outs of the community, there's a membership level and then there's a pro membership level. And in the pro membership level, you become part of this discord group. And it allows you to really sort of chat and connect with a lot of other members on an ongoing basis. And Craig, you and I connected pretty early on and we were sort of I think you were a few months ahead of me. I think you had been a member for a few months already. So Craig, give me a sense of where you were at at that time and where you are now because I think you're probably about a year or so into your inplayLIVE journey, right?

Craig Keating [00:06:37]:

Yeah, that's exactly it. Shane. I joined members in March of 2022, so kind of similar to what Mark was mentioning too. Things are still fairly locked down and it's actually kind of a funny story about when I joined. It was like I think I joined and two or three days later and this is when everything was very the restrictions are really tight, and there was no vaccines or anything like that at that point. And I got COVID two or three days after I joined. So I was literally locked in my basement for over a week. So it was kind of perfect. It was just like, okay, I can just dive in, really focus on the course. It was during, I think it was my first or second weekend of March Madness, so just kind of getting familiar with it and it was definitely drinking from the fire hose kind of being in it at that time of year as well. I definitely found success right away. Just start pretty much same story as almost everybody. Started with a few hundred dollars in an account and kind of grew from there, got some more accounts and did pretty well through the first two or three months. Generally for me, I'm fairly conservative just in general. That's my style with betting for the most part. That's what's neat about it. inplayLIVE. I know Adam Derges has mentioned this before, I love the way he puts it, that it's a choose your own adventure kind of thing, right? You can definitely do a lot of different things. Generally I don't have this story that it was my growth has not even been as aggressive as Mark's for sure, but I've definitely had great success. And then through the summer. Yes, the summer, I think last year for quite a few people. I kind of like the stories when people joined when there wasn't not on an absolute heater either. It's kind of nice to face a little bit of that adversity right up front and there's definitely times that the summer sometimes there's less opportunities. I think our baseball program in general is so much more refined than it was even last year. So I think that's a big difference. But, yeah, there was definitely some pretty grindy times through the summer, so it's good, right? And similar to your story, too, Shane. Mark, you were one of the first guys I talked to yourself and Aaron, right. And just having people who are so generous with their time truly care about the community, that's such a pillar of what inplayLIVE is. Right. And then, yeah, once the fall hit, that's where it really kind of took off for me, basically like September through till now, right. But especially through that January to March, it can just be such a moonshot as far as the strategies that are all hitting. And it's just an incredibly busy time for sports too, right. So, yeah, it's been, you know, found great success through then and yeah, here we are.

Shane Mercer [00:09:59]:

You know, you nailed it. Right. Like that. I think. You know, I also joined in the middle of the summer and there wasn't much going on. It was just baseball, which was fine for me because I like baseball, but not everybody does. And it was great to sort of join at a time where I could sort of just absorb and learn and get to know things a little bit before we sort of went into that full sports onslaught, that kind of hits us around October when football is already in full swing. And then we get NHL, and then we get NBA and then college sports sort of start up and it can become pretty crazy. And there's a lot going on and it doesn't always go according to plan. And so a big part of this journey, and I think you guys would agree, is developing a winning mindset. And it's not easy. And a lot of people out there, a lot of you out there who might be listening or watching us might be going, oh yeah, I've heard about a winning mindset. I know all about that. I played team sports, I grew up around that kind of thing. I was an athlete or I competed in some kind of competition, whether it's athletic or academic. And you sort of think you might know what a winning mindset is, what it takes to build one. But I want to sort of challenge that a little bit and sort of put this out there that pro sports, for example, or sports at any level is based on the idea of competition on an even playing field. And it may not always work out all the time. We know that superstar basketball players might get preferential treatment from refs or quarterbacks in the NFL, for example, might get a little bit of special treatment from refs. But for the most part, sports is based on the idea that competition takes place on an even playing field. And then you develop team winning mindsets based on that premise. But what we're doing in the sports betting landscape is developing and creating this winning mindset in an area, in a space where the ODS are stacked against us, where it's not an even playing field, it's not a fair playing field. And so Mark, I want to ask you, how did you start out working on developing that winning mindset, that belief that you could be successful in this space where the ODS are stacked against you?

Mark Penelton [00:12:32]:

I think early on, Ray and Adam interviewed like, a bunch of members in the community and like, listening to Tao was one of the members who just his mindset towards this as a whole. And I think they talked about we're always trying to grow. And a big thing for me, even to this day, and it kind of ties in with that concept of infinite game. I'm always trying to grow. So I'm never satisfied with my performance. I can always get better, I can always optimize. And I think that's really what, for me, this game kind of boils down to is like, no matter how good my month is, I look back through all my data and I go, where can I improve? How can I get better? And I think that kind of the biggest thing to really focus on. When I started, my biggest focus was I just want to focus on the premium opportunities. I didn't really want to take anything else. Just focus on getting really good at the stuff that is the ten out of ten. And then when you master the ten out of ten, now you can start going down the ladder a little bit more and implementing more of the other strategies because like you said, there's at times so much volume going on in any 1 hour that your head can explode. So you really have to know where you need to put your focus. And I guess just like having the confidence in that strategy that you're taking at that point.

Shane Mercer [00:14:18]:

Yeah, I love that you sort of start out with sort of one area of wagers that sort of like you called them ten out of ten. Focus on doing those right and then kind of grow outwards from there. Craig, how have you kind of gone about developing this winning mindset over time? And full disclosure to all of you out there, craig and I are part of a much smaller group within inplayLIVE, just a few of us guys. So him and I talk about this kind of stuff a lot. But Craig, you've really kind of been working on this over time, and I know you've gone through some losing runs, so how have you sort of been developing that winning mindset and then how do you strengthen it during those losing runs?

Craig Keating [00:15:06]:

Yeah, I think a lot of it is a lot of what Mark said there, too, in terms of seeing where you can improve a lot of that is just looking at you look at the bets that you've tracked at the weekly monthly just to kind of see how things are trending and where you can improve, right? I think that's one of the biggest things. And taking that, you could have a losing day or a losing week or a losing month for that matter. It's a long term play, right? So you could have whatever, a losing run of sorts and just be down and say, whatever, I suck at this, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, that kind of thing. Or you look in the mirror, you look at your data, you see, hey, where can I improve? Right? What can I do about this? Right? You can't take that kind of that victim approach that like, oh, whatever, everything's against me, I'm going to lose the sports books, that kind of thing. You got to take that and look at the positive side of it, right? I think that's one of the biggest things. And then sometimes it is. And again, just going back to what Mark said there about the volume piece of it, I know there's definitely been times where if I have had whatever, whether it's a losing run, whether it's just a break even run where maybe I feel I should have been more profitable and look at it and say, you know what? Maybe I'm taking too much volume. Maybe there's just too much action that I'm taking right now. Let's get it down, let's refine it. What do I prefer to bet on? What am I best at? What are my most successful strategies? And just kind of build it from there. And that's where the confidence comes from, for sure. Right. And knowing that, I know that there's a couple of areas where I'm very strong, that that's where I like to focus my energy and that's what's built my bankroll.

Shane Mercer [00:17:02]:

You both touched on something. There a theme here about going to the data, going back to what you've done in the past and that collection to look at what have I done right, what have I done wrong? So a big part, it sounds like, of developing this winning mindset is also keeping track and analyzing what you've done in the past. And we talked a lot about that pace and I on one of the previous episodes where we were looking at the things we wish we knew before we started betting and all the lessons learned and that whole competition that took place within inplayLIVE where people were sharing those thoughts and ideas. And tracking was a big one. It came up. But I guess, Mark, for somebody out there who's never bet on sports before or is just thinking about starting or has bet on sports for a long time as a recreational bettor and never tracked or never thought to mark things down or to keep tabs on what they were doing. What would you say to them about how beneficial that can be, but also how that takes a specific mindset to even get started in the first place?

Mark Penelton [00:18:18]:

I think when I started, I was against tracking as well.

Shane Mercer [00:18:23]:

You were against it, you were like, I'm not going to do this.

Mark Penelton [00:18:26]:

I wasn't a huge fan of it. And I think that's one of those things where I talk with a lot of my coaching clients and I have the same concerns. We take so many bets sometimes, Mark, I just don't want to log them. And I'm like, I get it, I've been there. It's a lot to enter. But find a way to make it super easy so there's services out there or use your spreadsheet or do whatever you got to do to just make it as easy as possible. Because if you can make it easy, you'll stick to it. And the reason you have to do it is because when you gather all that data, things are going to really smack you in the face. And there are strategies that you could be betting for a whole month and you think you're doing well, and then you pull your data up and you're not, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know I was doing poorly with this. And now I'm going to adjust my unit size or adjust my approach or scrap it all together. And I think that's the biggest thing with tracking is that there's things you just don't realize that could be going on and you can quickly make changes. And, I mean, this was a huge thing for me in the fall, went through some struggles, had a bad month in September, and I went back to the drawing board and I just said, I'm going to strip down everything and just focus on my top five or six strategies and that's all I'm going to bet. And I just did that. And I think not only does that give you a lot of peace of mind, it also gave me incredible results. I was able to kind of stay consistent in profit, where I think there are some challenges maybe as a whole in the group, and I've had my challenges, too, but being able to kind of keep going back to the data has just kind of always rescued me whenever things kind of start to go awry.

Shane Mercer [00:20:30]:

I love that you're a tracking convert, so to speak, right?

Craig Keating [00:20:34]:

Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:20:36]:

Craig, did you ever feel like tracking was so daunting that you were like, forget it, I'm not going to do that.

Craig Keating [00:20:41]:

100% because me and you talk often Shane. I admire the fact that you've just been on top of tracking since day one and you've just never strayed from it. It's honestly over time. Yeah, it totally is a struggle for me because like Mark said, the volume right there's times where it's like the volume is so high. But I think that's a good time to maybe you create systems for me. I know everyone's different. Like, I know Mark, you log yours as you take them. Right? I know myself. I'm similar to I know Devin's mentioned it before that he does it in the morning. I do the same thing. I wake up, grab my coffee, do my tracking. Takes me 15 minutes for the night before, but yeah, it totally seemed daunting at points. But once you get into that routine and then I think it's seen the value of the data, then it's just like you have to view it as like it's part of the job. Right. If you don't do it, then you're kind of grasping at straws. Right. You're going to guess because like you said, Mark, there could be a strategy where you think like, wow, I'm killing it on this strategy. And you look and your ROI is small or you're minus on it, right? Like you're actually losing money. So, yeah, there's no way you can develop a plan and a strategy, and it just becomes more and more important as the bankroll grows too. Right. Those decisions become really important. Right. So I like what you touched on there too, Mark. Sorry. Just quickly, I just think it's great to touch on the fact that for yourself, where you've seen great success and saying that it is a never ending it's an ever ending journey. Right. And the fact that you say, like, Play September. Well, usually the fall, things start to ramp up. That's when you can have some strong months. And Pace has talked about it himself, right, where you have a weak month and it's like, okay, you got to strip it down, get back to basics. Right. And it's never ending. It's never like you've mastered it and it's like, okay, it's on cruise control. You always got to develop it.

Mark Penelton [00:22:46]:

That's what I was just going to touch on, too, is that I look at this as the infinite game. So it's just like, what worked well for me in October? And I can pull that data now when I go into this October and I already know, it's like, okay, let's focus on these strategies. And I'll know pretty quickly, based on my data that I collect over the first couple of weeks, are they still working or do they need refining again?

Craig Keating [00:23:13]:

Yeah, and that's the thing, right? When we go into a new season, it's the same. You're starting all over again. You have that background data, but it's like, hey, maybe things are a little bit different this year and there's a lot of variables there.

Shane Mercer [00:23:26]:

So let's touch on that then because things do change, right? Like right now we're in a new baseball season and a bunch of rules have changed, right. What worked last year might not work this year. And we can sort of take that kind of mentality and apply it to just about every sport at the beginning of every season. So what do you guys do when what worked before is no longer working and you're not quite sure how to write the ship? Yes, you can go back to your data and you can look and you can see, but you're looking at something and saying, this was really profitable until now, and I'm not sure what it is about right now that this isn't working. And I'm not sure where to go from here. Mark, I'll throw it out to you first.

Mark Penelton [00:24:17]:

Yeah. I think you have to just kind of look at each situation. Are you not getting the right number? Like, there's a fair price that I think we have for every strategy, and if you're not getting that fair price, that could be quickly showing where all of a sudden you're not as profitable in the strategy. I think filters like rules of Engagement are really important. Are you bending any rules or are you maybe not considering some other variables that you should be considering? I think there's just when we look at what we do, there's really those two motivations, like what's going on in the game based on kind of the data and the motivations in the game, and then what are the numbers telling me? And I think if you can make your decisions around being on the right side of the motivation for that game and being on the right side in terms of the data statistics over time, you're making value bets, and as long as you consistently add those up, you will be okay. But yeah, I think if anything, and even if you check all those boxes and it's still losing, maybe you got to look at the other side, or maybe you just got to scrap it all together.

Shane Mercer [00:25:39]:

Craig, what would you say?

Craig Keating [00:25:43]:

Similar to that. Kind of looking at some of those things where yeah, I look at there are certain strategies that may be carried over from looking at baseball with some of the rule changes, whatever changes could have occurred, you can kind of get as granular as you can as well, right. In terms of figuring out, hey, but maybe this situation wasn't exactly what I thought it was, or the situation just plays out a little bit different than last year. Yeah, I know. I've had at least one baseball strategy that I use last year that I've basically abandoned for this year just because the way it's kind of trended, I said, you know what? I think that this is just not what it was last year. But then on the other side, you have some new ones that develop. Right. So I think that that's kind of key and some of the testing that you can do early in the season as well. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:26:38]:

Yeah, that's kind of the nice thing right about inplayLIVE is that there are so many different strategies for each individual sport that you can really kind of say you know what? I don't like this one or this one hasn't been working for me, and I'm not going to bother with it. But I do really like this one over here, and I'm going to focus.

Craig Keating [00:26:55]:

On that, I think, with that, too. Shane, I think one of the key points there is that we talk about it is that reset for each season, right? Is that not going in with a larger bet size? It's like go tiny if it's new strategy that you're developing, too, start tiny. Tiny just to create the data and then see if it's something that's viable and it's there and you can scale up.

Shane Mercer [00:27:24]:

Yeah. Mark, you're nodding your head very approvingly over there. That's something you do as well, start small, build from there.

Mark Penelton [00:27:31]:

Yeah, it's so well said. I think even this year, I think there was a new baseball strategy, and it was totally new to me, but I really liked the concept of it. And so it was start really small, build the data, just like Craig said. And one of my coaches kind of gave me a concept that he used for business. It's like, okay, now that you've kind of built some profits from that, you can kind of reinvest those profits as you scale up. So I was like, I really like that concept in terms of like, I started with a small unit, I built up a little bit of a bankroll with that kind of strategy, and now I can start to expand it. And I guess it just gives you the confidence that if it starts to go awry, it's like you're still kind of maybe break even or small loss on a strategy. I just love the concept of reset. Let the data show you that what you're doing is right and then you can start to ramp it up.

Shane Mercer [00:28:33]:

Yeah, the resetting idea, I think is great. Whether you're winning or losing or if you've gone on a great winning run, I know for myself and I think probably for our entire community, not just the three of us, but just about everybody in inplayLIVE who is really kind of committed to it. Probably did very well in January, February, March with college basketball men's and women's. And I know for myself, I was just happy to do a reset after that because, you know what, the sport came to an end. That strategy is over for now and okay, let's reset now and think about what's the path forward look like until that comes around again next year and sort of kind of go from there. So I love the reset idea, but Mark, would you ever reset in the middle in the middle of a sports season or in the middle of a losing run when things aren't going so well? You mentioned September. Would you ever reset in that kind of a situation?

Mark Penelton [00:29:37]:

Yeah, I think you're constantly kind of questioning in this business. As to did you take a good wager or not? And part of our education is all about just making good decisions. And so for me, I analyze every single one of my bets and I go back and I say, did I make the right decision in this case? And if I do agree, like I made a good decision, then it's living with the consequences. If I think it was a bad decision, then maybe it's adjusting my strategy, adjusting my filters. I think the biggest thing for me is anytime I go through a challenging run, losing run, I really just want to get back to basics. I just kind of strip everything right down and go back to the handful of strategies that I have the utmost confidence in. And then I think when I kind of build that confidence back up, then I can ramp back up again.

Shane Mercer [00:30:42]:

Yeah. Craig, what would you say? How do you sort of build that resilience or kind of how do you learn the most during those losing runs? And do you ever reset?

Craig Keating [00:30:54]:

Yeah, as far as kind of resetting, there can just be times where and this is along the lines of kind of following paces guidance on that front is sometimes you just need to kind of ramp down a little bit too, right? That if there's just something that's not a certain strategy that's maybe just not clicking at the moment, you kind of just go a little smaller until it kind of starts clicking again. And that can be a refinement too, right, in terms of, I guess call it a reset and say, yeah, you know what, we need to adjust this rule and this rule, and then it starts clicking again and then it's time to kind of ramp up as far as that goes. And like Mark said too, there's definitely been times where if there is just a lot of volume, a lot of action, and it's maybe not going amazing. Yeah, just kind of strip it down, get back to those basic strategies that.

Shane Mercer [00:31:51]:

Are really successful, part of becoming successful. And I think one thing I've sort of harped on a little bit on this podcast over the episodes, and this goes back to me reading a book called The Perfect Vet by a mathematician. And basically, I've talked about this so many times now, but basically no group of successful sports bettors or no successful sports betting strategies have taken place by individuals working alone. Almost everything has taken place with groups of people working together to game a system or to beat a system, whether it was blackjack, horse racing, poker, the list goes on. And I think that's kind of what we're doing here in the sports betting community. And you can't do it on your own. You need help. And another reason that I'm so happy to have both of you on this episode is because Mark, I think I mentioned this off the top. You're a coach at inplayLIVE and you recently just did a coaching session with Craig. So, Craig, you are taking the coaching sessions. So first, Craig, why did you want to purchase the coaching sessions and engage one on one with some of these pros? Because you were doing so well, you were having a lot of success. Why did you think for sure that you wanted to do that?

Craig Keating [00:33:16]:

I think some of it is just talking to someone who's kind of taken to that next level. I think that's a big part of it. Right? And that's where I said kind of off the top. I mentioned that whole choose your own adventure thing, right. For me, with the success that I had and the success that I know that I could achieve year in and year out, just doing what I'm doing right now, it's great, you know what I mean? It would be pretty decent living on its own, to be honest. But just to kind of take it to the next level, that's always kind of anything I've ever done, I want to be at that high level, that elite level, and that's where you get that. And that's where, to me, the value and the availability, the access that we have to coaching and inplayLIVE, it's one of those things you say it off the top of a lot of these episodes. Shane, we make no secret of it in the community. It is truly the best sports betting community in the world. And to me, it's not even a debate. The amount of firepower, the amount of success in this group is staggering. So to be able to have access and have coaching sessions with guys like Mark and Coulter and Kenny and Azan and you know what I mean, like, just true huge success stories, I just think there's so much value there, and for me, it is just kind of an infinite growth thing. I always want to learn, and Mark will speak to it himself as well. But Mark still gets coaching all the time too, right? He's a coach and he gets coaching. So it's just one of those things. If it's there and relative to I look at it, the cost of it is honestly minimal in the scheme of, you know what I mean? When we look at our bet sizes and the success that you can achieve in a month to spend that much a month for coaching, it's like a no brainer to me.

Shane Mercer [00:35:14]:

Yeah. When you achieve that kind of level of success, Craig, that you've been having, $500 for a coaching session for an hour is kind of like whatever that's a half a unit or a drive unit or something, right?

Craig Keating [00:35:28]:

And it's not that much Shane, so it's even better.

Shane Mercer [00:35:37]:

So, Mark, I didn't realize this, that you're both coach and coachy. You're sort of doing both at the same time. Give me a sense of what you try to provide first when you're coaching and then tell me what you're looking for now as a coach who's still seeking coaching?

Mark Penelton [00:35:54]:

Yeah, I think I got to go back, I do my story, maybe I do a little disservice to the coaching program. That was another thing that when I talked earlier about I took off January to May, like 2022 inplayLIVE started the coaching program at the end of January, and I was first in line. I did a coaching call every single week with Tao for twelve weeks straight. And the value that I got out of those coaching calls I think was one of the biggest factors in my success. And I continued on with that with other coaches. And at this point now I joke with some of the guys that I look up to because you form relationships and bonds with these guys. And I joke that I'm getting coaching, but usually it's just like bouncing ideas off them and stuff. But I hired a life coach as well because there's just so many facets for me that you can continue to improve on and to have somebody to hold you accountable and just kind of be in tune with where you're at, where you're trying to go, I think is always nice for me. I'll always have coaching. I joked with Craig, like, I lead inplayLIVE and coaching hours received, and I'll keep doing it. I love what we do. I love learning, I love growing. I want to keep getting to the next level. It's an infinite game. But I also wanted to touch on one thing in terms of we talked about the people that are around us and sometimes also actually I should go back in the fall. I kind of had an idea for a strategy that I wanted to apply, but I had to bounce the idea off like a few different minds and just peers. And I'm like, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking that. And eventually I think it was JJ said something to me one day and light bulb went off and I was just like, oh my God, that's it. I think you figured this out. And I just took off again and I needed that one little ingredient that I was missing and it was just that outside perspective that helped that all come together.

Shane Mercer [00:38:24]:

I love that. Somebody just sort of giving you that missing piece, right. And they probably don't even know it in the moment, right? That was what you needed all along. I love that. I want to ask you though, when you first got into taking the coaching sessions and that time with Tao, what was it during that time? Was it something specific in terms of the strategies and him teaching you strategies, or was it something bigger than just strategies?

Mark Penelton [00:38:55]:

I think a lot of coaching calls revolve around three variables. One is mindset. He's just like totally stoic, really just sees the big picture. I think that was good for me at the time, just to kind of remind me I'm a bit of an overachiever. So it's like, oh, I only did this, I only did that. He's like, dude, this is like your first year. If you were starting any new career, you'd be lucky to be making this much money. And it's like, good point. Second thing I think that you get a lot of questions around is like infrastructure, like sports books. Where's the best number for this? Where's the best number for that? What books do you like to use? What's the process? When they cook, you just kind of knowing all that stuff. And then the last is strategies. That's a huge thing. And it's just like, why are we taking this? Why are we not taking this? Should you be going heavier on this versus that? I think those are just like, again, small things that you can optimize and just getting that perspective that somebody's like, no, dude, this is a ten out of ten. You need to put way more on that. And like, maybe this is a five out of ten. Don't worry about those as much. So now it can just help you with your focus as you go into each night.

Shane Mercer [00:40:21]:

That's really great insight there to know that you go into each coaching session with these sort of three pillars. Craig, out of those three pillars, what were you most interested in? I've got a feeling like it wasn't strategies per se, because I know you and you know the strategies pretty well.

Craig Keating [00:40:37]:

Yeah, it's not definitely not as much strategy at that point. And that's where it's nice too, that at any level, right. There's a great team of coaches and most of the coaches kind of deal with a lot of those levels at a very good competency. So for me, it wasn't coming in as a beginner, it was coming in as someone who'd been doing this for a while. But yeah, it is a little more around just kind of overall approach, just understanding the value on certain things a little better and sort of just even a conversation around, okay, how did you get from this level to this level? What kind of different things? Because I think that things change as and lots of people have talked about that, right. When you have a $100 bankroll versus a $10,000 bankroll versus $100,000 bankroll, how things evolve over time, you run into different issues that maybe you didn't have when your bankroll was a certain size. Right. So I think it is just drawing off a lot of that experience and just kind of the overall approach and to me, just kind of taking it more to that pro level. So I think it is just a little more about understanding value a little better and just kind of just when it clicks with certain things like that. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:42:05]:

Yeah. Craig, you're aspiring to that pro level, as you say, and I know that in our conversations, I think you would eventually love to do this full time and be a sports value analyst as your full time job. With that, though, comes a lot of pressure. Right. Mark, you've made that leap. Give me a sense of what it takes and the level of confidence you need to be able to make that jump.

Mark Penelton [00:42:36]:

Craig is a pro already. We talk about confidence a lot, too, right? It's like he knows what he's doing. He's very good at it. He's very disciplined, and he knows what it takes. And now I think it's just a matter of telling yourself, like, you can do this year in, year out. What do I think you need? I think put a year under your belt, go through every single sports season. I think that's a big thing, just seeing what an average June looks like, an average January looks like. I think those are big things for me. I guess Pay said somewhere along the way, I think people were asking this was a big topic, I think back when I was kind of just getting my feet wet and everybody would ask, like, how do you know when it's time to leave your job? And Pay said something to the effect of, imagine if this was your only thing, how good you would be at it. And that really hit me because it was like, right now I'm part time, and it was, like, working and then rushing home, working all night, working on the weekends, and it was just, like, constantly zig and zag, being all over the place, and it's like, man, what would it be like if this was my sole focus? And I think that was enough of a push for me to go. And at that point, it's like I had built a pretty good track record for those first five months of 2022. I was going into a little bit of the unknown for the summer, but based on kind of my previous summer, I knew kind of how I figured I can make it through well enough that I could justify making that leap.

Shane Mercer [00:44:32]:

Craig, you look like you want to jump in there. You have some thoughts maybe you want to share on this?

Craig Keating [00:44:36]:

Go for it, buddy. Yeah, well, I guess one comment I was going to make is I always give Shane a hard time, too, because he refers himself as an enthusiast or a hobbyist or something like that. Shane's right there with me, man. But even after you know what, Mark? After our chat, I feel like I've kind of accepted the fact that, yeah, I could probably consider myself a pro as far as that goes for me. Actually, Shane, I think my situation, I think I'm kind of the same as you, where I don't know necessarily I enjoy my career as well. So I don't know where that would land exactly as far as that goes. But the one thing I will say, if there's any way, just like Mark said, with doing that first year, if there's any way that you can join and make it happen, that you can do basically everything for the first year, to me, that is such a key to success. Because then you really figure out what you're best at. Right. Like the sort of thing where I did every single major sport this year in my first year, I wanted to make sure and it's a commitment, you got to make sure that you're communicating with your family, blocking time appropriately, that kind of thing. But then, now, going into really my second season of everything, I just understand so much better what I'm best at, what I really like to do. And I know that going into the fall, I kind of have a little more selective of what I'm really going to focus on.

Shane Mercer [00:46:20]:

I love you. Touched on a couple of key things there. Yeah. Putting in the full year and sort of seeing all the sports, really. I know I'm in the same boat there because I'm kind of completing my one year now, and I'm thinking, yeah, I really know what the next year looks like and I can prepare for it and be ready for it. Whereas when I joined in the summer 2022, in July of 2022, I didn't know what to expect, and I was still trying to figure things out and like, oh, is this even real? Having those conversations with Mark early on, it's like, can this actually even bear fruit now that I've seen that? Oh, yes, it can bear plenty. It's like and I've gone through all the sports. Yeah, I can really kind of see and chart out my next year and know what I can lean on and what I can rely on and what I do really well in and what I don't. And the other aspect of it there, Craig, is you've got a family, you've got a wife, you've got kids, and they have to factor in somewhere into all of this. And so give me a sense of how you sort of found that balance. And again, let's not pretend here we're talking about sports betting. It might not be easy to get your wife on board with sports betting.

Craig Keating [00:47:35]:

How did you do it? Well, it's one of those things where my wife, Allie, she's just incredibly supportive with anything that I want to do. So that's really important. Keep the lines of communication open. That's a big thing. And I mean, honestly, too, you kind of can get a certain amount of rope in terms of, hey, let's try this out, let's see how it goes. Then when the results start to come in, that makes a big difference, of course, when you say, hey, here's how much revenue I'm generating doing this. Okay, well, that's a little easier to justify as well. Right. But I think that's the important part of going into once you kind of get through that first year is knowing that, okay, so now I know that maybe these days and these days that were occupied last year are not going to be occupied this year. Right. So it was like, maybe it was a bit of kind of short term pain for long term gain kind of thing, right, where you'd say like, yeah, you know what? My weekends were pretty booked up for these specific reasons or these sports for myself personally, this is where I'm going to focus. So maybe I'm not going to be quite as tied up in these during this time of year. But then knowing that and just saying that, yeah, okay. When things really start to ramp up in college basketball, it's like, yeah, you know what? From this time and this time on a Saturday, this is what I'm doing. Because that's where there's a lot of profitability, right, so a lot of it is just kind of communication and yeah, if you do take it serious and follow everything, I mean, the results will come for sure.

Shane Mercer [00:49:18]:

Yeah, I love that. Knowing when to really dial it in and block everything else out, but then also knowing when to disconnect and pull away and give all that time and attention to the people in your life that allow you to do this. Right. We're kind of wrapping up here now. But Mark, before we say goodbye to everybody, I want you to give a piece of advice to either a recreational Sports Bettor who has never joined inplayLIVE or a Sports bettor who is just starting their inplayLIVE journey and just recently signed up and is sort of wondering kind of like I was a year ago. Maybe like Craig was a year and a bit ago. Is there anything actually to this? What would you say to them?

Mark Penelton [00:50:03]:

Yeah, there's definitely something to this. I think the big thing that I stress in all my coaching calls and just kind of the concept I like is just improve 1% per day if you can make one unit a day. If you can get 1% better at being a sports value analyst every single day. When you compound that over the course of a year, it's completely life changing. Craig and I talked about this. He doesn't consider himself a pro, but it's like we take his bankroll and we go, let's do one unit a day for the rest of this year. And it's like, this is life changing money. You are beyond a pro. And I think keeping that as your perspective when you're starting out is very important. Like, you're just trying to master that skill of one unit a day, and then when you get really good at that, okay, try and go two units a day and don't think about the money. Don't worry about too much stuff. Just really focus on mastering that day in, day out. Show up, be consistent and just get a little bit better.

Shane Mercer [00:51:17]:

I love that. Don't think about the money. And that is such a critical piece of advice, I think, for somebody who is a rec sports bettor or is sort of trying to become a profitable sports bettor, because when you tell them, don't think about the money, it's like, what do you mean don't think about the money? It's all about the money. Right. Craig, how would you have interpreted that a year ago as opposed to now?

Craig Keating [00:51:40]:

Yeah, I would agree with the statement as far as don't think about the money, because there's a couple of things that play into there. First off, like, it's talked about a million times, the money being used to start this is not entertainment money. It's not money to pay the rent. Right. So it's not money you're relying on. You're not under pressure to say, I need to make this money, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, all that is is just a marker of your improvement. Right. It's not that if you want to grow this into something substantial and kind of take it to that level, you're not relying on that couple of $100 month that you made to whatever to go out to dinner or anything like that. You're just rolling that back into your bankroll. So at the end of the day, it's kind of like the money is sort of irrelevant as you're building that up.

Shane Mercer [00:52:34]:

Right.

Craig Keating [00:52:34]:

It becomes a lot more relevant as you can take it to a really high level. And like Mark said, can be life changing. Right. But yeah, I would totally agree with that. And even, yeah, looking at it today, fairly similar. Once the money becomes more substantial, it's like, yeah, it's life changing in a different way. Right. But that is the focus, right, of just kind of growing. It improving every day. For someone who's a rec bettor or just kind of starting this journey, just dive in, follow the process, follow the course. And it's incredible. I think it's incredible what we have here and the community that exists. It's like nothing else.

Shane Mercer [00:53:26]:

Yeah, I'll admit, I think I was very much guilty, especially early on, of putting the money first and thinking that, I'm going to do this, I got to make money, and I got to make money quick. I had joined, I had just been laid off after I joined, and so I was really looking for something like that. And for all of you out there, I want you to know that this isn't something like the guys have said, this isn't about making fast money. It's about making a lot of money over a long period of time. And that long period doesn't need to necessarily be several years. It can take place over several months, but it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. And it's going to take a lot longer than a few nights or a few weeks. And the infinite game, I think that that is a great way to look at it, that even once you do make some money, then you start thinking about, well, how can I do this and make more and then more and grow and grow and grow, and the growth never stops, right, guys?

Mark Penelton [00:54:27]:

Yeah. I want to add one thing Tao said to me. I think pretty early on our coaching session is like, think of your first year as just like you're getting an education and you're making money while you're getting an education. So even if it's small, your tuition that you're paying, you're actually receiving money if you're following all the basic principles, and you are laying an amazing foundation, where it's like where in the world can you spend one year? Basically get a free education, and after you're done your education, go on to make over six figures a year?

Shane Mercer [00:55:09]:

Yeah. Not too many careers out there. I love that, too. Because, Craig, I think it wasn't too long ago where I was saying to you that I really feel like I've learned a new skill, I've learned a new career type skill that I can apply in the real world to make money, just like I did by going to journalism school so many years ago. I won't say how many, but in the same way. Right. Or if you go to school to be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, right. You take that skill, you apply to the real world and you make cash. I've now got a second skill, and I think you guys do as well.

Craig Keating [00:55:43]:

Yeah, I actually love that. That reminds you when you said that, Shane, because I think you put it so well when you said that. A lot of people go their whole life without learning one skill, and now you've learned two. So it's very true. Right. You have two marketable skills that you can generate revenue from. Right. So it's pretty cool.

Shane Mercer [00:56:04]:

Yeah. And again, the big part of that I think the other side of that conversation is now that you've learned the skill and I think you guys all feel the same way, you want to tell people and you want to share it with people and you want people to know that this is possible, that you can do this. And here's how, and we can show you the way. And for all of you listening out there who are wondering, oh, yeah, is this real or is it not inplayLIVE? I don't know. Scam. Not Scam. Just sign up, join, get involved, and you will learn the skill, too. And we aren't just making this happen. It really is life changing. Mark, Craig, guys, thanks so much for joining me. I think this was one of the most beneficial shows we've done here on the podcast. Really getting to give us great insight into sort of what it takes to become a winning sports bettor. So thanks so much. Any final words, either one of you?

Mark Penelton [00:57:00]:

Yeah, I guess I'll fire off. Just thanks so much for having us. It was a pleasure to be here. And to anybody new or in the community that ever needs help, reach out. There's so many great coaches and I'm happy to help anytime. And, yeah, just great seeing both of you guys. Really been a pleasure, kind of. I mean, being a part of your journey is just like, so great. That's the most rewarding part for me of being a coach. I've never coached you, Shane, but it's like we had that phone call last summer and just see where you're at now within the community. Craig, I think back to some of our I think our initial conversation last summer as well, and it was like you were just starting to get rolling and, I mean, you took off this year. You have amazing season. So yeah, I'm just so happy for both you guys and so happy to be a part of an amazing group. And I can't wait to see you guys in Vancouver.

Craig Keating [00:57:50]:

Absolutely. Yeah, same for me. Shane, just thanks for having us. It was awesome. Great chat and just kind of what Mark touched on right there. And that's what I think is so unique about the community. That's why I think it's such a cool community to be part of, is that is a very common mentality in the community, is people like Mark wanting to be really just generous with their time. You want to see others succeed. And now I'm finding I'm in that same spot, too, where it's like, if there's new people to join, it's like, yeah, reach out to me. I'm happy to help. I'm happy to have a chat with you. I don't think any of us would argue. We don't sugarcoat it. It's not easy either. It's far from it. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of dedication, but, man, it's a blast. I love it. I love every minute of it.

Shane Mercer [00:58:41]:

Again, no illusions, guys. This is not easy, and I think we've hit up that off the top. The ODS are stacked against us, but we can win. We do win, and we win consistently over time, and I think that's the most important thing. And with that, I want to say thank you to both of you, not just for coming on the show, but for being such an integral part of my sports betting journey as well. I definitely couldn't have done it without either one of you. And fair warning, I will probably lean on both of you at some point again in the future to help get me through a rough path. Always put that out there. But guys, thanks again for coming on the show. Thanks for being part of my journey and for all of. You out there who are in the community. These are two guys that you can definitely reach out to, and me, of course, as well, too, if you'd like. All right, guys. Well, with that till next week, keep beating those books.

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to, like, download and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts, have a betting story or want to be featured on our podcast, drop a note in the comments below. And if you want to join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.