Episode 19

Shane Mercer [00:00:12]:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines. I'm your host Shane Mercer, and today I have two very special guests. I will introduce them in a sec. But before we get into that, just a reminder to like download follow US subscribe. You can find us on all the socials at @ inplayLIVE. And if you want to see what the community is all about from the inside, we've got a special promo code for you to use that is 'BEHINDTHELINES' all Caps promo code. So welcome in a very special episode here as we are connecting with Randy Stewart and Devin Kearns, two New Jersey boys. Guys, welcome to the show.

DK [00:00:50]:

Appreciate it.

Shane Mercer [00:00:51]:

Hey, really excited to have you guys on the show today because we're going to talk about betting in New Jersey. And I know that's a state that's kind of been leading the way for the United States in terms of legalization and regulation and all that sort of good stuff. So we're going to dive into some of that. Then we're going to get some tips from you about sort of moving between states and we'll talk about the very important quintessential topic of work life, sports balance, which is not easy to say the least. And so for all of you out there who are maybe dads, we're recording this the day after father's Day. You'll definitely want to stay tuned for that portion of today's episode because I'm sure that these two guests are going to have some great helpful tips on how to sort of bring it all into balance and keep that family life cohesion together. So with that, guys, let's start off, though, on the topic of New Jersey sports betting. Devin, I'm going to call you DK, since that's sort of how we kind of know you in the inplayLIVE community. DK, give me a little walkthrough of how New Jersey has kind of developed its sports betting market.

DK [00:02:04]:

Yeah, so we're probably running close to year five at this point. They were kind of the groundbreaking state to fully legalize it a while back, obviously having connections with Atlantic City and a bunch of the casinos and sports books down there. Once it got legalized here, that was kind of an easy stepping stone for them and it just ballooned. Then you started with the advertisements of the standard draft kings vandals, and then from there, it's sort of blossomed and quickly. And I think it's kind of led the way for a large majority of at least the US. States and probably even into the rest of North America to kind of start following suit, from what I can tell, at least.

Shane Mercer [00:02:46]:

Yeah, we're sort of slowly starting to see each state kind of follow along. The dominoes are sort of falling over. They recognize the value of legal sports betting and how that can kind of be a nice tax cash grab for each individual state. Randy, how would you describe this whole process.

Randy [00:03:05]:

Yes, as you mentioned, they were one of the first states, I believe they might have been second behind Nevada. So early on, they were very similar to like when most states become legalized, they are slow to limit you. They will let you wager a lot and give you a very long runway. A lot of times when those sites first become legalized in the states, they want to take as much action as possible. Their stock would actually trade each month when they would release reports, the Caesars moved from number three to number two in New Jersey. So I started doing this in 2019, and it was a completely different world where you had that really long runway like most states really kind of late last year, mid last year, they started limiting a lot more as the market stock market hardened up a little bit. And companies are actually focused on profits a lot less of their goal is to take on as much revenue as possible or market share and really focus a lot more on them making money. So I don't think New Jersey is unique in the fact that they give you this long leash anymore. We are seeing and we have groups inside of Jersey where we're talking and back and forth, and a lot of us are starting to experience a lot of the same issues, same obstacles, what we'll call them, that some of the other states are experiencing. We are hopeful, though, that New Jersey was one of the first ones to become legalized. So hopefully, if we reach out to the right folks, they could be the first to change, really, and change limiting and that sort of thing. So very hopeful that they can lead from that front now, now that more states are legalized.

Shane Mercer [00:04:52]:

Yeah, of course, limiting a very big topic here on this show that we've talked about quite extensively. And we have at least one episode that that's very in depth on the topic, sort of towards the beginning of the podcast when we first launched it. So I would encourage all of you to go back and have a listen to that episode if you want to hear more about limiting and ways to kind of get around it or what to do next and that kind of thing. But before we start getting really into the nitty gritty of New Jersey sports betting, I want to get a sense of sort of your own personal sort of sports betting journeys in a nutshell. Randy, did you start betting on sports just around the time as it started becoming legal in New Jersey? I think you said 2019?

Randy [00:05:31]:

Yeah, I started mid 2019. I was actually sitting at a top golf with my wife, and one of the sites had an advertisement that said, deposit $25 and get a $5 free bet, or something along those lines. And I said, what the heck? I'm sitting there already. Might as well, might as well deposit some money and see what happens. So I got started in 2019 kind of off and on, but really the fall of 2019 is when I really started focusing on it. And I was doing this all actually before inplayLIVE, so I started doing it in fall of 19, started doing it in 2020 and all of 2021. And then I was looking for a community. I was really trying to figure out, is there others that are out there that's doing what I'm doing? So I accidentally kind of bumped into inplayLIVE just in my own researching. So I had a really good start before the group. So fortunately I got started early on again, back when the books didn't really care about profit and loss. So it's certainly been a journey. The playbook that I utilize today is almost completely different than the playbook that I was utilizing back in the fall of 2019 and 22,021. But yeah, it's been amazing. I started with $1,000 and it's ballooned quite a bit since then. But yeah, it's been crazy. And as the books change, we just have to continue changing as well.

Shane Mercer [00:06:59]:

I love that your playbook has evolved because it's like, yeah, as you sort of grow as a sports bettor, the way you bet on sports also has to change and adjust. And as your bankroll gets larger, you have to adjust more and sort of find other ways to kind of capitalize on the opportunities that you're looking for. DK how would you describe your sort of experience? Did it start at Legalization or was it sort of something that was building before that?

DK [00:07:26]:

Yeah, I mean, probably the heart of it started at Legalization. We had always tracked stuff. I knew enough about line movement and sports betting in general prior to prior to Legalization. Then once we got it opposite of Randy. I was your standard average Joe though, right? I was out there doing pregame stuff and we used to like to throw in teasers on NFL Sundays, right? So as recreational as it comes. But at the same point in time, I did follow sports religiously and tracked games, players, teams, right. So I feel like I always knew there was value somewhere, I just didn't necessarily know how to get all of it out. And then eventually I wasn't necessarily looking for anything. I'll say the way Randy was. I got the ad, kind of slapped me in the face and I was like, same thing. What the hell, I'll take a look at it and same thing started with $1,000 and it grew quickly. And speaking of a playbook evolving, right? Mine, I didn't even have one. I was looking to see what would work, what would not from typical pregame type stuff. I used to use the Draft Kings uses, they used to put out these ODS boost things, right, where they would find things, and I would try to go through all that stuff and it was all recreational. Now, actually having a playbook and knowing specifically different strategies of what you're looking at, I still can't wrap my head around completely how quickly all of it happened. But now you're in it and you're in it and I don't really remember life before it. Knowing what you're looking at and knowing what you're looking for. I should say more specifically, right before.

Randy [00:09:12]:

Before inplayLIVE, there's a reason I've not ever called a pregame line. I haven't really told this to many, but admittingly I'm probably the world's worst pregame bettor, I was that guy that said, why are the Yankees plus 150 today? That makes no sense. I must bet that line. And secretly there's a reason why they're plus 150 that I just didn't know. So discovering the community, the tools that we have definitely changed the way I bet. And I no longer try and even make those recreational waitresses because you wouldn't want anybody following me.

Shane Mercer [00:09:47]:

I love that we're able to admit now, looking back at how bad of sports bettors we were before inplayLIVE. And just when it is wreck, it is just for fun and you don't put much thought into it or you think that you know it all to an extent, right? Like Randy was just saying, oh, there's no way that line could be right. But of course there is something behind it, right. That makes it probably pretty close to accurate. So something that Randy touched on a little bit earlier, though limiting, in New Jersey. So it sounds like when it first became legalized and it became a regulated market, it sounds like you guys had a bit of a longer leash DK, is that correct? Was it easier to run up an account? When did you start to see things changing?

DK [00:10:34]:

So about four to six months into PlayLive, I started to see things changing. No, and I've told this story before, it's actually kind of funny, but because I did the same thing Randy did from around starting new books. So what I used to do was you'd see all these sites, you'd see the advertisements, so I would open up books just to take their bonuses. Here's a $500 free bet. I know we've talked about the free bet thing, right? It's not really a free bet, but just different. And some of them would give you actual cash matches where you could then play with that for a little while. So I opened up all these books just to take that and then I would play with the bonus money until I didn't have anymore and kind of just dodge my way around. So I accidentally buttered a ton of books before joining.

DK [00:11:19]:

So that's the funniest part for me. So from a leash perspective, my leash was actually super long when I came in because I had all these books that had been open a year and a half plus, and I never touched them. It was textbook buttering. So when I showed up, I had all these books ready to go. My Bet365 lasted a lot longer than a lot of other people's right off the jump. I remember first hearing about the limiting, and I think it was the first bowl season in 21 when I was in. They had an interesting field goal market out there, and people were getting cooked left and right, and we were like I was like, I'm fine. I'm in New Jersey. I guess they don't touch us over here. And then once I started to balloon a few of those accounts, the limits started. So, yeah, it definitely took a little longer, but I think it was partially due to the sort of buttered books that I had. But I think to Randy's point, I think it had something to do with the fact they were still trying to gather as much attention and folks playing as they could and get as much action before they started tightening the screws a little bit. Right.

Shane Mercer [00:12:22]:

Yeah. Randy, you kind of mentioned that you had a longer leash initially, and it sort of very quickly has gotten shorter. Do you have any experience working with the regulator in New Jersey? Have you ever had to reach out to them, filed any complaints? Ever have to sort of work with them or use them in any kind of way?

Randy [00:12:42]:

Not formally. A friend of mine, his dad used to work for the state of New Jersey in their gaming division for about 1520 years, so he has a lot of contacts. So he's given me the name of some folks that I've messaged from time to time, or he's put a little bug in their ear during breakfast, lunches, because he's still pretty tied in and there doesn't really seem to be a whole lot of appetite or interest. I figured this would be something that if you told them, hey, that this is going when I told him, he was shocked. He's like you have 1234. This is wrong. And he was so excited. He's like, Let me give you the names, and these people are really going to help you. And kind of, let's say those soft complaints or soft inquiries to, hey, would you be interested in taking my call? It's just here's the formal complaint line. Go ahead and file something there. And if you do that, then you were obligated to respond back to that. So that's definitely an avenue that I think we can continue to pursue more. It's just going that formal process, but there just hasn't been a ton of interest where I thought there would be interest in certain places so far.

Shane Mercer [00:13:56]:

And what kind of interest are you talking about? Interest in terms of wanting to make improvements?

Randy [00:14:01]:

Yeah, just hearing our story right here's five different ways that the gambler is at a disadvantage versus the books, whether it be free rolling a bettor, whether it be giving one person a leash where they can bet for a year and then another person a leash where they can only bet for two days. You place a wager at plus 100 and it ends up settling. And they pay you out at -800 those are the types of things and it's just we want a fair game field. We want to be treated fairly. The things that are not in our interest and are more in the side of a gambler's interest, that's all we're looking for is to be treated fairly and one gambler versus the other, right? You shouldn't be treated you shouldn't be treated differently because you're a winning gambler. One example I've used, once you get limited at a site, a lot of the sites will you have hosts and that sort of thing, and they call you and they love you. Right. And as soon as you get limited, you can be a four year, five year person with that site and they won't take your call, they just treat you like garbage. I've been on site in one of the casinos, and even though I've been for two years, they won't take my call and I have to pay for a soda, whereas I'm sitting right next to somebody and he's literally getting phone calls and borderline harassed. Hey, we'll give you this deposit month, this deposit bonus if you deposit money into your book. And it's almost like, predatory where it's like if you're losing bettor, they just go after you and they love you and they do everything they can to have you dump more money in. But the day you start making money and they identify you as somebody that they don't think they're going to make money from, you're just almost like deleted in their system. Things like, hey, what's my membership ID number? That sort of thing. It's like, well, we don't even know who you are, and you have to follow up with six different people and stuff like that. We just want to be treated fair from one bettor to the other.

Shane Mercer [00:16:01]:

I like what you mentioned there about having the VIP host, and then as soon as you start doing well, it's like, hey, goodbye. It's like, you get dumped, right? We don't want you anymore. This relationship is over. DK, have you ever been dumped by a VIP host and what did you do about it?

DK [00:16:17]:

Oh, yeah, for sure. I got pretty tight with one of them. She had met my wife and kids. She got us to the Phillies game when they won the pennant. She was awesome.

Shane Mercer [00:16:28]:

Wow, that's a tight relationship. Wow.

DK [00:16:30]:

Yeah, she literally reached out to me the week that the Phillies made the NLCS last year, and she was like, hey, game five, I got an extra ticket for your son if you guys want to bring them. She was awesome. She bought him a jail and hertz Jersey, one of the games she took us to, like, really cool.

Shane Mercer [00:16:50]:

Wow.

DK [00:16:50]:

And so after I got limited, I played dominant. I texted her and I said, hey, it was an MGM account. I said, I'm getting this weird message. It won't let me place anything. She was like, yeah, you got limited. But she actually told me she gave me a little bit of insight. She said it looked like you were betting on certain things, that I was just with all the traders in Vegas, and here's what they were looking for. She said, I did just build a relationship, so let me see what I can do. I haven't heard back from her, but, yeah, it's 100% a breakup. You just get ghosted. And that's it.

Shane Mercer [00:17:24]:

And that's it. Let me see what I could do. You'd never hear from her again.

DK [00:17:28]:

Ya, I actually thought for a second maybe I cracked something because we got a little tight. But no, there's nothing there.

Randy [00:17:34]:

I know we're going off topic a little bit, but one of the craziest examples of these books that are praying after those folks that are losing bettors, a good friend of mine, the books reached out, and they said he was traveling to Jersey from another state, and they're trying to get a deposit bonus. And they said, we'll give you a nice deposit bonus. 20%. We'll match it in free bets. They were unable to call him free bets at the time, and he's like, what's the limit? And they said, however much you want. So he ended up depositing 100 grand, and they gained $20,000 of free bets. So, I mean, that's the type of thing that they're looking to do to get money in if you're losing bettor. And then we're making a little bit of money, and you can't even get a free Coca Cola sit in the casino. They want nothing to do with you.

Shane Mercer [00:18:21]:

Wait, I'm flabbergasted here. How much in free bets?

Randy [00:18:24]:

Yeah, 20%. They would do a 20% deposit match.

Shane Mercer [00:18:28]:

And it didn't matter how much you deposited?

Randy [00:18:30]:

No matter how much.

Shane Mercer [00:18:33]:

Wow.

DK [00:18:35]:

I've gotten eight K and literally four $2,000 free bets once. And from the same one I was just talking about, she gave me same thing she was, like, looking for, and I was down in the account, so she was all over it. Obviously, I wasn't down overall, but I was prepping the book to where I needed to, and I got to a really good spot with them. But, yeah, I think she let me deposit, like, twenty K and gave me 8000 in free bets. Yeah, you can get to a point with them that doesn't matter. And then the second I think I actually got limited, and I was down lifetime in the account, and they finally limited me because we went on a good run. Right.

Shane Mercer [00:19:11]:

And all it took was one good run for you to get limited. And unfortunately, on that account, you didn't end up making a profit.

DK [00:19:16]:

Correct.

Shane Mercer [00:19:19]:

Wow. Yeah, it's tough out there, especially when these books are going to be so quick to limit. And recently I think it was the CEO of DraftKings was basically saying and this was to shareholders, he was essentially saying that, look, we are improving our algorithms so that we can better target winning players and have them limited quicker. It's all out there in the open. So it's not like they're even trying to hide the fact. And I mean, as a winning sports bettor, you kind of understand that, that the sports book wants to make money and wants to sort of turn a profit and you're not good for that, right. Bottom line. But we do need to have some kind of fairness out there, some kind of fair playing field. And that's what this podcast is all about kind of advocating for. So, Randy, tell me, what is the regulator doing in New Jersey that is working to make the playing field a little bit more fair or a little bit more level? Are they doing anything at all?

Randy [00:20:20]:

I think they want to show that they are. So DK will laugh at this because I was streaming with him when he saw it as well. They're making some sites like have a 92nd video to say, hey, if you have a problem gambling, here's what you can do and here's what you can contact. So it's stuff like that that I think just kind of checks the box and they can say, hey, we care about our employees. The CEO is the one who leads it and he does a 92nd video that everybody who wants to bet on this particular site has to watch. So it's little things like that that they're trying to do. But besides that, I've not really seen anything. And to be honest, I really think that and maybe I'm naive, I do think if the right folks in the state of New Jersey knew how cruel the books were, that there may be folks that are willing to make a change. Obviously they like the tax revenue, but if nobody's making money, then ultimately the books aren't going to hang around for a while. So I think they have to just continue to work with us both. But I think it's a matter of us getting our story, all of the examples together in front of the right hands and the right individuals, and I am still optimistic it will change, but we've just not seen a whole lot so far.

DK [00:21:39]:

I would actually go out in a limb and say that I'm going to still guess and I'm going to put us as a group. But us commentary, being a profitable or winning sports bettor, I think we're still in the minority. So I think that's why they can continue to get away with this, right? Because there's not enough stories being told for them to. And this is complete theory. There's no fact behind this at all. This is just my two cent. But I think they're making enough and profiting enough money off of the average person that's out there. And unfortunately, it is a problem for some people, right, that either can't stop or have issues with it. And I think they're making enough off of that that I don't think they worry about the handful of people that are profiting and they're limiting. That's how they're keeping things on their side. But to your point, Randy, I'm sure there are people that would care. It's just about finding them and getting whether it's legislature getting something in place that we can get, even if it's a bottom line basement number, right? Like you can only bet 500 or 1000. Okay, we can work with that. I do that with a lot of books. I have limited books that I still can utilize and still make a decent profit off of. The ones you can't is when you literally can't bet anything or it's $2. That's where it's too tough.

Shane Mercer [00:23:02]:

Let me ask you then, what do you see other states doing? And I know we're talking about a lot of different jurisdictions here, but sort of if you were to sort of take a look at the rest of the country, are they following the New Jersey model? And do you sort of think that they're essentially looking at New Jersey as kind of the template here's? The playbook let's just follow this. Is New Jersey being used in that way?

DK [00:23:33]:

I think so, from what I can tell, obviously, I'm close to Pennsylvania, so that's the only other state, I should say, that's the next other state I'm in the most. And depending on the book, if you cross state lines, sometimes the limits get lifted, or sometimes they only get lifted for a bit and then they figure out who you are and it snaps back. But I do think New Jersey has sort of been that trendsetter that other states are looking at, from what I can tell, obviously, I haven't played enough in other states to see how long that leash is. And again, with my beginning having longer books from the jump, I don't know that I'll be able to figure that out for sure, but I think there's a blueprint.

Shane Mercer [00:24:18]:

Yeah. Randy, would you agree with that? And then I guess in theory, then, doesn't that mean that more states are going to just end up sort of following this similar model where they just allow these soft books to just keep limiting players?

Randy [00:24:31]:

Yeah, I think so. And I'm a finance nerd. I'm a finance major, so I spend some of my time that I'm not doing my full time job or being a parent or betting on sports, reading press releases and earnings transcripts. And a lot of the books, the publicly traded ones who actually have earnings calls, they are pretty transparent where they talk about their marketing spend. They don't actually talk about really limiting, but they'll say these new states, they're a lot more aggressive from the marketing side of things. And I think what they're also kind of alluding to is they're aggressive from the limiting side of things. So I have a relative that lives in Arizona. It seems like he had a pretty long leash when Arizona first got legalized. So it's hard to sit here and say independently what we're seeing, but it certainly seems that way when states first legalize it, they're not going to be limiting because they don't want a lot of bad press, right. And somebody saying, hey, I've been able to bet for two days, don't even sign up. So I think a lot of them, you'll see, which they already are because they've been legalized for a while, starting to follow Jersey. And that's why I would love for we'll try our darndest to get the story in front of the right folks in Jersey and hopefully others can follow suit.

Shane Mercer [00:25:42]:

Yeah, and hopefully those lawmakers in those other states will at least be able to hear about the stories about limiting in New Jersey and will be more aggressive when it comes to dealing with the sports books, knowing that already. Because I would imagine that a lot of the lawmakers, when they were going through this process of creating a regulated market, they didn't think about the possibility of limiting. Right. And they weren't thinking about the winning sports bettor because, hey, to DK's point, how many winning sports bettors are there out there, right? So it's not somebody that they would be too concerned about. But you're right, Randy, as these stories kind of bubble up to the surface, we may see lawmakers in other states sort of become more aware of it. And then when they're going through the process, it's something that's already sort of front and center for them. It's top of mind and perhaps they will be more aggressive with the sports books.

DK [00:26:35]:

Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:26:37]:

So on that topic, though, of other states, I think you both do a fair amount of traveling. So we'll talk about DK. How do you set up your sports books for when you're traveling? Or do you just not bet when you're on the road?

DK [00:26:52]:

So it depends where I'm going usually and what the situation is. I do actually travel for work occasionally. One of the main places I go is actually Boston, Massachusetts. So up until maybe a month and a half ago, which I haven't been in the last month and a half, they weren't legal at all. Yeah, they had no legalization. So I have a few books that I could utilize up there, but for the most part it was pretty barren. So it'll be interesting when I go back. All of their stuff is now legal up there, so they have all the big hitters up there. Outside of that, again, depending on where I'm going, even. If I'm crossing over to go to a Phillies or an Eagles game in Pennsylvania, a lot of the books actually carry over. So the balances carry over, and sometimes the limits are different. And then there are certain sites that you can actually recreate and just create a new account once you get per state.

Shane Mercer [00:27:57]:

So let me get my head around this. So you cross the state line and you're going to Pennsylvania. Cross the state line and let's just say, like, oh, you've got a Draft Kings account in New Jersey. When you cross the state line, you create a new Draft Kings account.

DK [00:28:11]:

Yes. So if you go I'll give you Caesars, actually, as an example, MGM another okay. Where everything's geolocated, right? So when you sign on, it asks you where you're located, and it gives you a list of all of the states that they're regulated in. So you actually have to create an account per state. So if I go into I can't use my New Jersey Caesars in Pennsylvania, but I could go in there, create a new account deposit, and start all over in Pennsylvania. So Randy and I talked about randy and I have talking about going in on timeshares in different states depending on the time of the year.

Randy [00:28:48]:

You can't even track your balance. You actually have to withdraw your balance, like in Caesar. Caesars is a great example. You have to withdraw your balance from that state, go to a new state, download the app. But the good thing is I haven't done it recently, but you would get all the new sign up bonuses and you would get so DK and I were like, let's just go on a road trip, download apps in every state and sign up for Caesars 14 different times.

Shane Mercer [00:29:15]:

Yeah, well, I was just going to say right, because they're not asking you for a proof of address or anything like that. Then they don't care about that stuff. I guess they're just using the app to say, yes, he's in such and such state, and yeah, he's good to go. Bet, go for it. How about it?

DK [00:29:31]:

It depends on the site. Some of them will give you a hard time once you start withdrawing. Then they'll try to get proof of address to make sure that your address matches up. That becomes a separate conversation, but from the jump. Yeah, a lot of them, you can just hop in it and get going. Whereas on the flip side, a slate like Fandall, I figured this out early on. I had been limited there. Not crippled limited, but limited. And I went to a Flyers game one night in Pennsylvania, obviously. And I I was at the game and I was looking at lines, and I went to go put something in. And the max bet on FanDuel is great because it gives it to you in the box. It tells you what the max bet is. And it was like triple what I was used to on that. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess my limits are different across the state, but I could use my balance. However, when you go back into the Bet history, you actually have to pick the state that you were in. That's how you track where the Bet history is. It's interesting the way that they each do it.

Randy [00:30:25]:

To add on to that in that same site. It's almost like they share information, but it takes a little bit of time. So FanDuel, for example, and true story, I could bet, let's say, $100 on a line. Last year in the state of New Jersey, we took a family vacation to Virginia. And it's not about where you live. It's about just being in that state physically. That's the New Jersey requirement. So there's nothing illegal. I'm allowed to open up a fan duel and bet in Virginia if I'm physically in Virginia. So it depends kind of where you're at. So anyways, I was in Virginia, and I placed a waiter to DK's Point. I was able to put $500 down a line. I'm like, Wait a second, I can only bet $100 in Jersey. And it took about 24 hours. I only placed probably two wagers that day, but it was at higher amounts, and the next day I was back to my Jersey limits. So it's almost like the share data and the share information, but it takes a little bit of time, and it's still pretty clumpy. The fact that one book lets you cross state lines in bed and others make you withdraw and redeposit, and they still have a lot of opportunity there.

Shane Mercer [00:31:38]:

That idea of withdrawing and redepositing is really interesting to me. I'm wondering, do you have to create a new email address? Do you have to create sort of new names? Or do you use the exact same stuff and you just create the exact same account over again? Yeah, that's what it is.

Randy [00:31:56]:

Absolutely. You would use your same address and everything. That's just a normal process. And you would think that these technology companies could get a little bit smarter, but a lot of them just work independently. It's almost like a liquor license. Like, they work independently with you and with that license, and they just don't work well with other states.

DK [00:32:14]:

For the amount of stuff that they track and limit you on. They don't pick up really easy, really easy things like that. That's such an easy transition to me. Like, okay, I can just jump states and go do this all over again. That's fine. It's sort of entertaining, actually, when you think about it.

Shane Mercer [00:32:29]:

Yeah, it is.

Shane Mercer [00:32:30]:

It also gives you a great avenue, though. Like you were saying, you were talking about the cross country trip. Hey, you just keep making a new account in every state and you've got new limits and you're off and running, right?

Randy [00:32:40]:

Yeah, that example that I told you about, that deposit bonus, that individual, he was down in one particular town, in one state, and he was traveling to Jersey. So his rep probably in Jersey that he talked to, probably looked and said, well, you're losing bettor in this state. Send your money over here. Crazy deposit bonus inside of the same book wasn't even a brand new bettor to that account, so it's nuts.

Shane Mercer [00:33:01]:

Wow. All right, so we talked about traveling within the states. Now, I've got to ask, though, because you guys, you make a fair amount of money betting on sports. Well, hey, what are the perks of making money betting on sports? You get to go on awesome, cool trips around the world. Randy, I know you just came back from a pretty awesome trip. I saw some cool pictures. I think you were in Greece. Did you do any sports betting while you were sort of globetrotting?

Randy [00:33:25]:

Yeah, I was able to use a book over there that I'm able to use where you don't have to be located in the state, but it was very selective as well. And if my wife ends up watching this, I was only when she was sleeping and when there's nothing else going on, and I just had a couple of minutes to spare. But, yeah, it's fun. And trips like that, it's nice to just be able to dial back and give back to those that are supportive and that allow us to do that. So we can talk about that here in a little bit. But that's certainly a big part of what we do, is we need the group around us to be committed and to let us do it.

Shane Mercer [00:34:09]:

Yeah, absolutely. Very important. DK do you ever bet when you're on vacation with the family?

DK [00:34:17]:

Not really. To Randy's point, if it's late or if it's something I was actually in Scotland in April. I tried it one or two nights, and it was a golf trip with a few folks. I tried it one or two nights, but the six hour ahead difference, trying to stay up at 03:00 A.m. To catch the first wave of playoff hockey was I made it one or two nights, but that was about it. Yeah. I'm nowhere near I don't lock into stuff. Right. I don't bring the equipment. I always have a cell phone on me, so there's always a possibility if I see something or catch something, I'll throw it in quickly. But, yeah, it's not a main focus for me. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:34:58]:

Guys, since we're on this topic now, when I talk to people about this I've got three daughters, I've got a full time job. I bet with you guys regularly as part of inplayLIVE, and people are always like, how do you find the time? How do you balance all of this?

Shane Mercer [00:35:14]:

And I've got a lot of sort of answers that I could give, but I want to get your answers and sort of figure out how you guys are doing it, because it's definitely not easy. And I don't want anybody out there who's listening or watching us to think, oh, yeah, these guys say it's no problem. No, it's not no problem. There are things that need to be done to make it happen on an ongoing basis, on a day to day basis, on a week to week basis, or month to month basis. And it really is about time management and balance and finding that. So, Randy, how many kids do you have first? Let's start there. How many kids do you have, Randy?

Randy [00:35:50]:

Two kids. Two daughters. Four and seven.

Shane Mercer [00:35:53]:

And you've got a full time day job.

Randy [00:35:55]:

Correct.

Shane Mercer [00:35:56]:

And you're married. How did the conversation go when you told your wife, hey, I'm betting on sports and I'm going to be doing this pretty regularly?

Randy [00:36:05]:

Yeah, I think a lot of people are probably a similar story, and I talked to hundreds of people, and there's always doubt. Right. You're going to be doing what? You're going to be betting on sports, and it takes a while until they actually see. And by see, it's that extra dinner, it's that $100 bottle of wine instead of the $20 bottle of wine. It's the little things that start to happen, or it's the vacation. But it took a good year, and it was, hey, this is going to just be something that I'll do. It'll be a hobby whenever I have an hour to free at night. So it started out it was something I'll do when the time was right, and then over time, once you start seeing what it can be and you start seeing that's what I think, it's the more difficult conversation with that individual. It's, hey, I'm doing this five, 6 hours a week when there's nothing else on TV, and we've got caught up with all of our shows to, hey, I really want to start allocating a couple of hours a night to this. That's when it gets to be a little bit more difficult of a conversation. But once they start seeing what it's doing and they see the ability to make money, I think that's when they start to get it a little bit.

Shane Mercer [00:37:21]:

Yeah, definitely the money. And seeing it helps sort of fuel that conversation or give you some ammo for those conversations. But it's not easy before the money comes. Right. DK it's not exactly a simple conversation to have.

DK [00:37:39]:

It's not, no.

DK [00:37:45]:

First of all, air pods and a cell phone would not would not have happened without either of those two things. I have two as well, a little over four in about a year and a half. My youngest was about three weeks old when I first joined, so I remember, like, three weeks old. I remember sitting upstairs with a bottle and an AirPod inch just listening. Right? Yeah. So I took a few weeks of it where I was just listening in and taking some bets here and there. I didn't really broach the subject. I wanted to see if it was real before I even got into it. And the first month at whatever I was, I think it was a $25 unit. The first month I made larger than I would have ever expected in three to four weeks. So I brought it up. I said, Listen, here's where we are. Here's what I've done so far. And it was a lot of like, okay, that can't be real. And then it just started to continue to grow. Right. I'm in an advantage. My kids go to bed 07:00 semi early, and my wife's also on the earlier side of going to bed. So half the time I'm by myself. I used to just be downstairs working at 08:00 or 09:00 at night and just watching whatever was on. So now I've tacked this onto it as well. So my weeknights are easy. Weekends is where I've really started. And after the first year, we've had a lot of conversations around putting those guardrails in place right. And really getting some balance. Football is tough for me. I can't really do an all day Saturday, Sunday, I just can't. Right. So the same thing, I'll go back to the AirPods when I have a couple of hours. If I can get stuff in, I'm listening to other pros in the stream, and those guys do their thing and following more than doing anything myself. So it's nice that I can still go back into that mode where I don't have to be the one necessarily making the decisions and I can follow some of the other brain trust that we have in this place. Right. And then the nights that I do have free, I can kind of lock in and try to help where I can.

Shane Mercer [00:39:59]:

Right. It sounds like both of you are sort of focusing your sports betting efforts mainly in the evening and weekends where you can so you're not interfering with that day job. Right, Randy?

Randy [00:40:12]:

Yeah, absolutely. You really dial into a schedule. And DK and I share a lot of this offline, and we both have two kids. They both go to bed around the same time. So it's day job.

Shane Mercer [00:40:24]:

You have to be there for bedtime. Bedtime is like a tag team.

Randy [00:40:28]:

Absolutely. Sometimes it takes two people to rest them down. So day job is first and foremost, from 08:00 till 435, 530 kids go down. And I think people, they don't realize how much time they actually have. Everyone's initial expectation is, it's going to be way too much work. But if you really think about it, I used to trade stocks and do that sort of thing. I don't do that anymore. I would spend time on social media and you're scrolling newsfeeds and ad and throw that out. It's all a waste of time. So the amount of time that we have if you're sitting at a doctor's office for a half hour, right, instead of just doing nonsense on your phone or reading bogus articles, open up your sports books. Your kids at gymnastics and you're sitting outside for 15 minutes and waiting instead of doing other things, open up your sports book. So there's a lot of time, I think, that people have, if they really think about it, that they can dedicate to this. But I'm like, DK weekends are family for the most part. If the kids take a two hour nap during the daytime, if the wife has something to do, I'll hop on stream and I'll place wagers. But weekends for me, for the most part, between 10:00 A.m. And 07:00 P.m. Are family time and a wager on the evenings and definitely during the weekday. So I try to bust my hump as hard as I can Monday through Friday. So that the weekend I can kind of come and go.

Shane Mercer [00:41:51]:

DK, same story for you. You're working regular daytime hours, like an eight to four, nine to five kind of thing, and and you're you're just limiting your sports betting to evenings and maybe an occasional moment on the weekend when you have some spare time on a weekend.

DK [00:42:06]:

Yeah, I wish it was nine to five. I'm a project manager by trade, but I actually manage a team of PMs, so we have stuff. I mean, it's kind of around the clock.

Shane Mercer [00:42:17]:

Okay.

DK [00:42:17]:

I mean, generally speaking, it's nine to four, nine to five, eight to whatever. And frankly, this has actually helped it's actually helped me create, to Randy's point, you don't realize how much time you actually have until you can blanket it out. So I have gotten into, over the last probably four to six months, you get yourself into a really good routine.

DK [00:42:41]:

So you get up at what? For me personally, I get up early, drop the kids off at daycare 7715, I go to the gym, I come back, I'm doing stuff around the house, getting into work. Right. And then 4430 kids get home and I'm off till seven ish. Until they go to bed. And then I start to come back in and I'll collect back up on work stuff and then start to dial into some of this. So once you get into that groove and then yeah, the trick with the weekends for me is becoming figuring out how to listen in two different ears is you just have one in one ear, so I can kind of keep an eye on what's going on there, but not miss what's happening in front of me. Right. So that's the trick to it. But, yeah, I mean, a big focus for me specifically has just been trying to be more present and especially in the summer. So this was a big test over the last two months, and I think it's been going well for me personally is the low volume environment that we're in right now is phenomenal and really trying to peel back from this a little bit when there's not a ton going on. There's no reason to be chasing down inning by inning bets necessarily in a baseball game if you're trying to do three other things at once, right, like let it go, move on. We have big, profitable times of year, and those are the ones to kind of focus in on. So that's really what I've tried to do, is bring some of that balance in and be able to enjoy some of what happens in the winter, right. And I think that's where a lot of our focus is trying to go right now.

Shane Mercer [00:44:11]:

Yeah, we're definitely in that zone. So for all of you out there who are listening and not a part of inplayLIVE right now, we don't have a lot of the major market sports going on. Basketball just finished, the NHL just finished. We're in the middle of the offseason for NFL football. So really only Major League baseball out of the Big Four is happening right now. So it's a bit of a slower time for a professional sports veteran out there and a great opportunity to find that balance and spend more time with the family and do those things. And it coincides with summer. So, I mean, you really can't beat that. But I love what both of you guys touched on there about not realizing how much time you actually have. And I think that this is something that is a topic that people could bring up in all sorts of facets of life, whether you're betting on sports or you're doing something else. I don't think a lot of people out there, and I know myself personally, I didn't realize how much time I wasted on a regular basis. How much time I spent just watching TV and watching shows or movies or like Randy said, scrolling my phone to see a whole bunch of crap that doesn't really matter or help me in life. And I think I know that for me, joining inplayLIVE really helped me sort of gave me sort of another layer on top of other duties. And once you layer that in, you really start to see, wow, I wasted all of this time before when I could have been doing something productive, and for me, that something became sports betting. But you could fill it with all sorts of other things if you didn't want to bet on sports, right?

DK [00:45:44]:

Yeah. And now your phone reminds you every Sunday how much screen time you've logged that week. I get that every week, and I want to throw up every time I see it. I'm like, oh God, that's terrible.

Shane Mercer [00:45:57]:

Did you guys sort of realize it though? Or how long did it take Randy for you to sort of realize, holy crap, I wasted a ton of time doing a bunch of bullshit?

Randy [00:46:07]:

Probably well, to DK's point, the phones do a good job. I probably didn't realize how much time I was spending on it. I was just trying to figure out much money I was making per hour with this. And I went back and I looked at one of the sites over the course of like four months, and it was kind of an eye opener to know how often I was logged back into the account. And again, there's only 24 hours a day. Nobody in the world has more than 24 hours. So it's like, well, how am I able to be logged into a sports book for 4 hours that particular day and still accomplish all the other things that I was? And then you really see all that extra time you have. It's little things that instead of going to Chipotle and waiting in line for a half hour for a burrito, pack a sandwich and take it to the office and just work through it and it's little things like that, it's 30 minutes, 20 minutes, ten minutes, 15 minutes here and there, that all add up. Then it's just instead of having that waste of time, I try to allocate that. Now to sports, I also have a.

DK [00:47:06]:

Large advantage in that I work remotely, so I'm either at home or on a plane at a client site. So I do have an advantage from the working from home perspective. Right? That's a big time saver for me.

Shane Mercer [00:47:17]:

That is a big time saver. I made that transition too, a couple about a year and a half, almost two years ago. And man, I've saved myself at minimum 2 hours a day by removing the commute, sometimes more than that, because rush hour traffic in the Toronto area can just be nuts. And I'm sure it's similar for you guys, if you're near a major city, that amount of time is crazy. Well, guys, with that, in this topic of time, we are running out of time and there are only so many hours in the day. And I know you guys have other things you got to do. I got a few other things I got to do. But before we wrap up, leave our listeners with one final thought about sports betting, especially if they are the rec bettor. DK, go ahead. Since you were a rec bettor before you became a pro.

DK [00:48:00]:

You don't need to have a bet in on every game, on everything you're watching, right? That's the biggest thing. And to this day I still look at that. I actually just went through my stuff from last week and it was probably one of the weeks I was the most proud of. The record on bets was great, but I was very limited on them. It was probably one of the more selective weeks I've ever had. And when you can really dial in, I looked at every bet. I don't think there's one bet I would not have made last week. But, yeah, you don't need to have a bet in just to have action on something. Make sure there's a reason behind what you're doing.

Shane Mercer [00:48:33]:

I love that I can look at. Love that piece of advice. I know myself personally, too. The sports that I love to watch aren't necessarily the sports that I love to bet on. They're just not as profitable for me, even though I love to watch them. Okay, Randy, piece of advice for you.

Randy [00:48:49]:

For the listeners out there, not to copy DK, but I think focus when you're just getting started, focus on premium opportunities to build your bankroll with. And once you do that, then you can start layering in the other good opportunities that may be just slightly less premium, but you don't want to get started and just bet. Just start going wild with a huge array of sports. So stick to those premium ops when you get started, build your bankroll and go from there. But I think that will certainly be a good way to build your bankroll to keep it.

Shane Mercer [00:49:24]:

Wow. Great advice, guys. For all of you out there who are listening, these are two pro sports bettors operating at the highest level you could possibly think of, and they just gave you some incredible advice. You don't have to have a bet in on every game just because you're watching it. Just get your bets in on the premium opportunities. And if you want to learn how to identify those premium opportunities these guys are talking about, well, inplayLIVE can teach you how to do that on top of a whole bunch of course material where you learn how to identify value in bets. You actually get to bet live with these two guys. They're doing it multiple times a week, joining on live streams, and you can bet with them and just tail their picks. They're pros. They know what they're doing. Randy DK. Guys, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Really appreciated this conversation. I thought it was great and a ton of great, valuable advice for the listeners there. Guys, until next week, keep beating those books.

DK [00:50:27]:

Thanks, Shane.

Randy [00:50:29]:

Thanks, for having us.

Shane Mercer [00:50:30]:

Thanks for tuning into another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or want to be featured on our podcast, drop a note in the comments below. And if you want to join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.