Episode 60

Andrew Pace [00:00:00]:

There there were probably a few things that I was doing that wasn't necessarily being exploited by tons of people. We just heard from Adam that he shut a sport down in the country.

Adam Bjorn [00:00:13]:

Yes, it's definitely one of my, you know, bucket list items ticked off.

Shane Mercer [00:00:26]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe. Follow us on all the socials @inplayLIVE, and if you wanna see what inplayLIVE is all about on the inside, we've got that promo code for you 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. Alright. I'm your host, Shane Mercer. That guy over there, Andrew Pace, founder of the most sophisticated sports betting community on planet Earth inplayLIVE. And, Pace, wow, we've got a show for the audience today. A guest who has devoted his entire life to sports betting.

Shane Mercer [00:01:00]:

And now he is taking those skills, experience, that talent. He's brought it to North America, and he's trying to level the playing field and creating a space for fair play in North America. Really excited to have Adam Bjorn on the show. That interview coming at you in just a few minutes. But, PACE, first, a few things I wanna get to before we get to Adam. First, starting with last week's episode where I shared my story, my journey to a 100,000, pace. I I can't overstate the amount of positive feedback and comments I've received, since we released that episode last week. The number of of messages to my DMs and in our Discord, server, just just overwhelming.

Shane Mercer [00:01:44]:

And so I just wanna say thank you to everybody out there who reached out, who sent me a message, sent me a note of congratulations, and, I don't think I totally, understood or comprehended, how much my story might impact someone else's journey. And, I'm I'm sort of a bit taken aback by all that.

Andrew Pace [00:02:04]:

Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that I noticed once we saw people start succeeding inside of our community, And one of the things that was overwhelming for me was hearing some of the success stories come from just it felt like unexpected places, like, you know, this one guy who made his first $10,000 that he never had and, like, what that meant to him and his family, and then the next guy that, you know, hit the first guy who hit 6 figures in profit and, like, hearing about that and just thinking that was beyond my my wildest dreams. But I think the big thing for a lot of other people that maybe don't necessarily have the success or even people that do have the success that maybe learned something from you, because I know that a lot of people inside of the community take this approach of it doesn't matter if it's a brand new sports bettor entering the group or someone who's hit, you know, 7 figures that's been doing it for a really long time. There's probably a learning opportunity when you have someone that takes it seriously if if the if the 2 people are able to connect. But, yeah, it really doesn't matter, you know, what level that you necessarily are, it's it's that you get something out of it, and it's, it's really powerful stuff. So, yeah, again, like, huge congrats, and I'm glad people were able to to appreciate your story because that's that's really what it's all about. And, I think that that is gonna make you a better bettor as well, Shane, you know, just being able to interact with some people that have questions for you and things like that. It's great stuff.

Shane Mercer [00:03:33]:

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. In fact, I already kinda feel that. And and like you said, you know, you learn from, you know, I'm learning from guys like you, Pace and and Kenny and some of the other pros, but I'm also learning from, like you said, people who are just reaching out and and they're asking me, you know, questions. And then I'm looking at my data, and now I'm seeing things or looking at things and and sort of reevaluating things maybe as as part of that dialogue with people who are just trying to learn. So it's just a great way to, you know, it's it's just yeah. It's a great community to just learn from each other, and, I I'm really kind of not that I didn't see the benefits of it before, but I'm really seeing them this past week.

Shane Mercer [00:04:07]:

So that's been Right on. Really kind of cool for me. Alright. As part of the, learning journey, I wanna get to another episode that we aired a a few weeks back, s x bet. If you haven't listened to that episode where we had the team on from s x, I very much encourage you go back, have a listen to that episode, from a few weeks ago because, man, there's there's just so much in there, and it's it's really, really fascinating stuff that the team over at s x is doing. But I just wanted to sort of share a little bit about my experiences with it so far. So, I've been on SX now for, I think, about 3 weeks or since that episode aired anyway. So 3 weeks to a month.

Shane Mercer [00:04:45]:

And, it's been really, really cool and and learning about, you know, the cryptocurrency exchange space and and how it all works. But, I've also made a a couple of mistakes along the way, so I'm hoping some people can learn from my mistakes out there. One is, you want to bet in USDC, which is a a crypto token tied to the US dollar. That's what everybody's betting in over there. You can place bets in Ethereum, which is sort of how I thought I was gonna go about it, but then I realized, wait. No. Everybody is participating in this exchange using USD. So make sure you get USD when you get in there.

Shane Mercer [00:05:21]:

And and don't make that mistake that I made. And another big mistake I made is one of the coolest things about s x bet is that I can offer bets. So I can essentially become the book, and I can post the line at the odds that I want it at and see if somebody is gonna take it. And, that's a really, really cool aspect of it, but, I made a major mistake when, a few weeks back when I was sort of just learning it where I posted a a no next goal opportunity in hockey where, you know, I was I was essentially you know, I wanted the under. And, I I I clicked, you know, offer, and and it didn't go through. And I was looking at about a half unit here, and I thought it didn't go through, I should say. And, then I clicked it again, offer, and still I thought it didn't go through. And then I was like, what's going on here? And then boom, there was a goal in the game.

Shane Mercer [00:06:13]:

And I was like, oh, crap. Okay. Good thing that didn't go through. That didn't go through. I'm quite happy now that that you know, thinking that it didn't go through, and I get up and I walk away. And, I come back an hour later, to see that I'm, down a unit. So not only did the offer go up, and there's a way to go and check to see if your offer went up. So so if you are offering, that's to make sure you go and check.

Shane Mercer [00:06:33]:

But not only did the offer go up, I think I just let it sit there after this goal, so I hung a line. And I just let my line hang there, and sure enough, somebody came along and sniped it. I don't know, Peces. It was probably you or it could have been someone else, you know, sticking it hanging out there. But, you know, you don't wanna be hanging lines out there like that. So so make sure you go and you check those those offered bets. You don't miss make that kind of a mistake. Pace, what's your experience been like so far on s x?

Andrew Pace [00:07:00]:

Well, before we get there, I mean, you just pretty much said that you offered a line and you kinda laughed about it because you, number 1, you know you're gonna get it back. Number 2, you know it was a learning experience. And you didn't even touch on the fact that you couldn't go claw it or void it or take it back.

Shane Mercer [00:07:18]:

Yeah. Nope. I couldn't take it back. And you know what? I wasn't even I was mad at myself for making the mistake, like, oh, you idiot. You know? Like, how did you not real like, you should have checked and and all of those kinds of things. But not once did I feel any kind of negative emotions towards whoever it was that, that went and took my hanging line. In fact, you know, kudos to them. They saw an opportunity.

Shane Mercer [00:07:41]:

They took it. Good for them.

Andrew Pace [00:07:42]:

Thanks, Shane. I appreciate that.

Shane Mercer [00:07:43]:

Yeah. Well, you know, whoever it was, you know, good on you for for grabbing it. I don't I don't blame you at all. Not even kind of. It was all my fault. And I wish the sportsbooks behaved in that way too where they took some motives and said, hey. We made a mistake, and we gotta eat that mistake and own the mistake.

Andrew Pace [00:07:58]:

Right. Well, I think from, like, my my experience with SX is obviously a little bit, longer than yours. I will just say if you guys are just hearing about this, use code in play. When you sign up, you get a a $1500 bonus, which, is just an incredible bonus. I think it's the best bonus in the entire industry, because you still have access to your money. So the the free bets trickle in based on how much you're you're playing. And if you don't if you don't play through the right amount or anything, there's no concern. You can access your money at any time.

Andrew Pace [00:08:25]:

But it's funny that you bring that up, Shane, because last night, the was golden knights game 7. We're shooting this on a on a Monday, golden knights against the stars. And there's been a few times through the playoffs here where I've offered a line on something where I actually can't call the bet because I offer a line that you can't get somewhere else. And if I get that line accepted, I know I have that action. But then if I were to say to inplayLIVE, hey, guys. Like, I just took the Canucks money line at 2.4, people are gonna be like, where the fuck did you get that? And it's like, oh, I created a line on s x, and and someone took the other side of it. So what I try to do when if I'm creating a line is pricing it so that whoever buys the other side's getting the best price, but I also know that I I as well am am getting a line that wouldn't exist anywhere else. So I actually did that last night with with Vegas, between the periods, and then I was like, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:09:15]:

I got the game on here. I'm gonna gonna go start making some dinner. And I swear to god, I had fucking raw chicken, like, all over my hands. Right? The 3rd period started, and I'm like, okay. I gotta wrap this up, because I need to make sure that if a goal is scored by Dallas, that this bet isn't offered anymore. So I have freaking chicken all over my hands. I'm I'm cooking, and I literally say to myself, okay. I'm just gonna make one more piece of chicken.

Andrew Pace [00:09:43]:

Oh. And then the horns go off. The crowd goes wild. Dallas scores, and I've got, like I got a couple $1,000, offered on the Dallas side. And I got some pretty expensive equipment here in front of me. And I'm like, I really like, I I am in my head processing, like, am I getting my chicken hands on my equipment, or am I and risking ruining that, or am I giving up this money? So I, like, freak out. Lace is like, how can I help? How can I help? What can I do? I'm fucking scrubbing my hands with soap. I sprint over and cancel my bet, and I exhale.

Andrew Pace [00:10:20]:

I'm like, oh, that was almost expensive.

Shane Mercer [00:10:23]:

Oh, so you're not you were you did cancel it in time.

Andrew Pace [00:10:27]:

Well, the difference between our two stories there is I I know that you you have to do that, and you learned the hard way to do that.

Andrew Pace [00:10:33]:

Because I've I've been doing it for for quite a little bit now, with with offering bets and things like that. But, honestly, with with the SX stuff, what's great for me is I'm not a pregame bettor as you guys know, but I have placed some bets on the Canucks that I'm I'm really not gonna call to the group. It's it's just for fun. It's it's betting with my family, my friends, that kinda thing when I go watch the game or I go to the game or whatever. And, like, really good example was was game 6. The Canucks were in Nashville, and, books were paying about 2.05 ish, maybe a little higher, pregame on the Canucks. I filled an order at, like, 2.27 on the Canucks pregame on SX, and it's because I offered the best line on the Predators and still got that line on the Canucks. So, like, to anyone that's betting pregame and you want a line that doesn't necessarily exist or you want a better line that's than what's out there and exists, offer that that sweet spot where you're giving a better line on the one side and, you're getting a better price on the other side.

Andrew Pace [00:11:37]:

And there's so many, like, algorithmic bot type players on s x that they'll come in and buy the price of the other side without even a person or player actually coming in and clicking it. That'll just be some sort of, like, syndicate or or bot that's buying it just because it is the best line, that's being offered. So I love it from that standpoint. It's been a lot of fun, and especially, like, I don't know, you know, maybe like someone in in in tonight's game, and you can just set a reminder, you know, offer the line from, like, let's just say it's it's noon. Offer the line from noon until tip or or puck drop, and set an alarm 5 minutes beforehand to go cancel that line if it isn't filled. But I'm I'm finding they're getting filled because, like I said, you're offering the best price.

Shane Mercer [00:12:28]:

Yeah. Yeah. And if people out there are wondering, well, how is it that that know, you're able that both sides are able to get the best price, in in this scenario? Well, it's because, there's no VIC, and and the Sx has kind of eliminated that VIC. And so both sides are really truly able to get the best price there. And, you know, for for more on that and sort of to learn more, I encourage you to go back and listen to the episode. Yeah. Without sort of getting getting way into it. But, yeah, it's it's it's it's really cool.

Andrew Pace [00:12:54]:

Yeah. For sure.

Shane Mercer [00:12:55]:

Alright. Well, with all of that stuff out of the way, Pace, I think it's time now to bring in our guest without further ado, Adam Bjorn. CEO of Planetech, a longtime sports bettor, a former sportsbook trader, and a guy who spent his entire life in the sports betting space. He's even played both sides at the same time. Adam, welcome to the show. Great to have you.

Adam Bjorn [00:13:22]:

Yeah. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.

Shane Mercer [00:13:25]:

Well, I'm really I was really looking forward to having you on our show here and to sort of share, your knowledge and expertise with our audience. But many of them may not be familiar with you. And so I want to ask you, you know, if you could give us your back story, but we don't have a whole lot of time for this. And as I mentioned off the top here, you literally have an entire lifetime of sports betting experience. So can you give us a bit of the the Coles notes version of of who you are as a sports bettor, where it began, and kind of how you got to where you are now?

Adam Bjorn [00:13:59]:

Yeah. I mean, you know, as I have these conversations now, it sort of was going from 10 years, 20 years now. I've been doing this for almost 30 years. I think it is, going into next year. The basics is, you know, I gambled on horses and whatnot as a teenager. I think I can date it back to when I was about 10. Straight out of high school, ended up working as, like, a junior ticket rider, in Australia. Did that for a number of years.

Adam Bjorn [00:14:26]:

Got into the bedding aspect of it where I was dealing with multiple sides of the world. Internet was new, whatnot. Took advantage of, very slow moving, information in the Australian books. Worn my welcome out there pretty quickly. And in, 2000, just after the Olympics, I emailed a 150 sportsbooks, which within 48 hours, I've done an agreement to move to Jamaica. So literally moved, and as I got to Jamaica, I found a globe, opposite parts of the world, and then literally spent 20 years in Jamaica doing different things. Obviously, you know, not being American, you know, offshore wasn't offshore to me. It was just sportsbooks in countries and things like that, so I had complete access to that.

Adam Bjorn [00:15:15]:

Another great background tidbit is taxes in Australia, not on sports gambling. Jamaica, there's no taxes on sport gambling winnings. So, you know, I sorta had the freedom of just rolling hard and whatnot, and then did some time in Curacao, was in India doing cricket at one point, and then which kinda led me into doing some consulting for Bet Chris. Opened up a franchise Bet Chris, Jamaica. Got my bookmaker's license there, but, you know, I've sort of, as you said, both sides of the counter, Risk trader management meant I bet better when I work, so I just sort of I had times where I tried going to the beach and betting from the beach, but it just didn't work. So I was just better off being in a room. And, ultimately, now I'm building the tech between the front end and the back end. I know how to place a bet.

Adam Bjorn [00:16:07]:

I know what customers are looking for. I know how to offer bets, take bets, do the risk management, and sort of fell into this spot where majority of the techs in the industry are built by people that have never placed a bet or taken a bet. And I saw this as an opportunity of trying to build that piece in the middle to reduce the friction between the two worlds that I've lived, and I sort of say now it's it's who I am, not what I do, for 3 decades.

Shane Mercer [00:16:34]:

I I would say, yeah, very much is who you are, as a person. I mean, you know, starting at the age of of 10 and and that you've kind of been at it ever since in one way, shape, or form. I've gotta ask you, though. How did you you know, you you kinda mentioned that you were working at sportsbooks, you know, as a trader, but you were also betting at the same time. Can you expand a little bit on that and and kind of how did that work? I I imagine that one sort of fed into the other.

Adam Bjorn [00:17:02]:

Yeah. I mean, 1, I was doing the work to get the numbers, so I was literally doing, you you know, 16 hour 18 hour days knowing sports, and there was nothing that I wouldn't bet on from kind of mid nineties to 2010 or something. In Australia, I was working for a book that was doing US sports. A guy had moved over from Chicago, set up, 800 number, and was operating in that. So I was learning US sports and betting into Australian books, and they had no idea. They had Don Best at the time. I think it was sports something. So I was working nights doing that.

Adam Bjorn [00:17:41]:

So I'm getting all the information early. I'm getting real numbers from Vegas. I'm getting ARB opportunities where I'm getting, you know, minus 150 one side, plus 350 the other side, just stuff that doesn't exist in the world today. And again, I'm seeing I've worked at books that have never really limited or kicked people out, So I'm also seeing a bet ticker that has the best gamblers in the world coming through that bet ticker. And as I see that, I get the information. I can either hold up a line, move the line, and then I'm going and betting it everywhere else. Then I move to this side of the world, and I'm working for American Books, in a sense of American sports eccentric, but they're offering tennis, golf, soccer, Aussie rules, rugby, and all these things. So I'm picking the eyes out of them.

Adam Bjorn [00:18:34]:

So it kind of opened up 2 complete worlds that were complete islands of their own, didn't really know the other one existed, and sort of had the freedom of you know, I I look back, and majority of my bets were probably from 11 PM to 7 AM, wherever that book existed in the world, because I learned also that none of these operations had night shifts. It was, like, 1 or 2 people, or it was trying to automate it and whatnot. So I knew the back end of how to take advantage of books to a point where every time I left a book, I knew their weaknesses. So then I would just, you know, they'd be the 1st place that I'd start betting back into. So I just had the edge of knowing how the operations worked, the clock moving around, knowing a Betfair, and these things that were market leaders, and just taking advantage of the weak spots. I really, as I look back on it, was in an era that just, you know, will never exist again because it was early Internet, pre Internet sort of thing as well. I probably didn't take enough advantage of it, for where I'm at today, but I definitely, you know, fed fat on, the incompetence, I guess, of a lot of the books back then.

Shane Mercer [00:19:53]:

Yeah. You know, definitely, some things you can't necessarily get away with or get away with for too long these days. You know, one of the big topics we talk about on this podcast a lot and, you know, something that matters, you know, in a in a big way to our audience is, you know, the practice of limiting. As somebody who's kind of, you know, been on both sides you mentioned wearing out your welcome in Australia. You know, as as somebody who's been on both sides, what kind of advice would you offer to our audience, you know, so that they could at least prolong the period of of signing up for a sportsbook and getting limited on a sportsbook because, you know

Shane Mercer [00:20:34]:

Sometimes it can happen really quickly.

Adam Bjorn [00:20:37]:

I mean, I I kinda find it all comical these days, especially in the American market that it is now because, you know, by 2,004 or 5, I'd had thousands of accounts closed. My mom had had 4 or 500 closed. You know? I've had access to traders that have worked in, like, Bet 3 65 and that, so they've looked up my accounts and sort of seen notes in the background. Even when I went and consulted for Bet Chris, I saw, you know, the notes in my accounts and stuff like that. Today, it's really you know, it's targeting the big sports. Like, there is edges. There still is efficiencies in the big sports where you can get limits down and things like that. If you're going after player props, doesn't matter where you're betting in the world, your, you know, longevity isn't there.

Adam Bjorn [00:21:29]:

There's still places in the world that you could bet into. You know, I have an advantage. There's some a number of sportsbooks in Jamaica that I still play into. It's all cash over the counter or kiosks, so it's not account betting. But, also, one of those sports book does not offer golf anymore. Like, they've literally taken golf off the screen as a betting option, because we just took them to town, so much on that particular sport. But then that b to b operator also operates in another 10 or 15 countries, and they offer the golf in those places. So it's really about finding potential partners or teammates and things that I never did.

Adam Bjorn [00:22:11]:

I was very much a solo bettor solo operator, and that's why I say I probably could have taken more advantage of it doing this as a team or with partners or with groups like that. And I think, ultimately, the networking is the key to survival these days as bettors because there's a lot of groups and smart guys and syndicates that I, you know, when I sort of peg them and find where they're at, I'm telling them the future is on the other side. Ultimately to build a software or build something where they're putting it on bookmaker side and then just letting everybody bet, even the wise guys and stuff like that, if their stuff's good enough. Right. So it's really about the evolution of what you're trying to do, what you're trying to achieve. You know, parlays, betting $25 parlays, rounding robins, and things like that. There's ways you can, you know, try and put the scent off what you're doing early on. Just cost yourself a few $1,000, you know, run a negative 4 or $5,000, account, and then find the opportunities to just tear through it.

Adam Bjorn [00:23:14]:

Know that in 3 month period, if you can get them for 40 or 50, then you've sort of killed that account. But there's little games that you can do, that are getting harder and harder because people sports aren't limiting people for winning. They're limiting people for having closing line value or edges or different things like this. Yep. But there's still a lot of sports that on the very top end games, first half, second half, live betting is, you know, definitely a weakness for the books of letting, you know, people bet. And bizarre, strong or efficient, and being able to really chip into that and build that up. So it's really just being, you know, a chameleon and involving and sort of seeing where you slot into. And I preach this one a lot.

Adam Bjorn [00:24:04]:

The UFC, again, if it's a sport you like and wanna follow, it's big limits, inefficient market, And for me, there's a lot of money still to be made in a sport like that.

Shane Mercer [00:24:15]:

As somebody who's been in the industry for as long as you have, and you talk to a lot of other people in the industry, is is live betting kinda catching on, or is it still something that's very much under the radar?

Adam Bjorn [00:24:28]:

Oh, no. It's catching on. You know, US sports are a little bit behind the the the graph in a sense of you go back 10 well, shit, nearly 15 years now, and, you know, the European books on tennis, international basketball was 90% live. You know, it had completely done a flip where it was 90% pregame, you know, life, which just didn't exist, and then it quickly flipped. Tennis, some of those things, they're up in the eighties or 90% is live. On the US sports now, it was probably, you know, 2 years ago, 80 pregame 20 live, where I think that's a lot closer to 5050, you know, even in the old markets, and it's probably getting up above 50% in the new regulated markets in the US. But it's it's a future. It's where it's at.

Adam Bjorn [00:25:23]:

People wanna log in, play quick, get something down, and maybe exit, and then come back and things like that. But live betting is a lot more liquidity coming. It's catching on, and it's definitely where the future lays.

Andrew Pace [00:25:36]:

I mean, Adam, you brought up some pretty cool points there. I think for our audience in particular, one of the the big ones is gonna be, the changes that we've seen, with Wagering and how, obviously, there is this sort of cat and mouse element of of being a profitable sports bettor, and then, obviously, continuing to do the same things that you were previously able to do. That can have a little bit of a shelf life, so you obviously have to be, you know, ahead of the curve and constantly adapting in order to continue to succeed. And I think that sometimes we can have a bit of an outlook where when something changes or isn't the same that we view what we did as wrong, because, you know, we had a group that came in and and potentially exploited something, at the same time that that caused the books to react a certain way. But having not wagered with a group actually, there's a couple similarities in in our stories there. I I very much started by myself. Having not wagered as a group and seen the changes that happened just betting as an individual over the course of time, because there are other sharp bettors doing similar things, but there there were probably a few things that I was doing that wasn't necessarily being exploited by tons of people. We just heard from Adam that he shut a sport down in a country.

Adam Bjorn [00:26:52]:

Yes. It's it's definitely one of my, you know, bucket list items ticked off.

Andrew Pace [00:26:55]:

Yeah. You could get, like, a belt for that. Right? Like, Jamaica Jamaica no longer offers golf at their kiosks, at at, you know, said casino. Right? So I think that the message there is, obviously, we have to always continue to adapt, and we have to take some of these blows and punches, from certain situations. But the flip side to it all is the fact that now we have these options of these kiosks and and, you know, over the counter wagering is is much more than just, say, Nevada now, which which, you know, if we rewind the tape, you know, 10, 20 years was pretty much the only option, for that style of wagering, on sports. You know, so you you you have to you have to continue to adapt and take those punches, when and where they come, and also recognize that they're not gonna stop. Like, they're gonna continue to, be things that are exploitable. One of the things we say too a lot of times is there's a lot of money to make money from betting on sports.

Andrew Pace [00:27:51]:

Like, golf hasn't really been an area that I've I've necessarily focused on in the past. I've had a couple of, short stints of success, based on something that was very much in the moment and closed very quickly thereafter. But it sounds like it's been a tremendous sport for you, and, it's always cool to chat with someone. You know, I it's very rare that I'm gonna talk to someone that has more betting experience Right. And success than than than I do. But being able to speak to someone that does is really, really cool. And the the first words out of your mouth being golf, my my mouth dropped a little bit because, that again, like, that is an area that I haven't had the best success with. And I think that that speaks to, working with other people where you go, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:28:34]:

You know, Adam's not able to to wager in, you know, Jamaica or Costa Rica or wherever it is on on golf. But, you know, potentially, that's something that, you know, we could work together on where we go, hey. You know, there's some opportunities from from the standpoint of golf that are exploitable on these sportsbooks that, you know, maybe you don't have anymore, and opening up new doors that way, which is is really cool and what it's all about.

Adam Bjorn [00:28:57]:

And I think that's generally it is, you know, all these people that are really professional bettors are all very approachable. You know, if you know, I'm going back 20 years, like Billy Walters, you know, very approachable, Rufus and that that, again, does golf, college basketball, things like that. Very approach very easy to talk to, always happy to give their time. The things that are happening at, like, unabated with Captain Jack and sort of you know, it's what we do. I mean, our goal is to ultimately and while, again, I work on the other side of it, and now that we have Prime Sports just opened up in New Jersey, been open in Ohio, really pushing these arbitrage opportunities is something that I've done for 20, 30 years now. You know, I was grateful to be on the side of my first trip to Vegas was for a fight. You know, Costa Zhu, Zapdu, Zap Judah at the MGM, and I'm getting plus 300, plus 350 at the MGM and Costa, and I'm getting, you know, minus 130, 140, whatever is that due to in Australia. Again, unique opportunities, but, you know, the arbitrage in today, people are looking for pennies.

Adam Bjorn [00:30:15]:

You know, you know, plus 101 both sides, plus 102 both sides. People are taking that. Well, for me, you know, it's people not they're not betting against me, and I can't go bet with DraftKings or FanDuel, so let these people do the work for us. So, generally, arbitragers all you're doing is profiling their accounts. If they're winning, then your product's not good enough and you need to improve it. Ultimately, they're losing because all it is is you betting with other books. So kind of giving these opportunities to people that that's their you know, they don't want the risk. They just wanna play it safe, and they just wanna earn.

Adam Bjorn [00:30:52]:

You know, it's it's kind of finding the various sort of vast people that in the industry and the business and seeing what their niche is.

Shane Mercer [00:30:59]:

Yeah.

Adam Bjorn [00:31:00]:

You know, again, golf is a spot where I know someone, they're very good at what they do. You know, I've had people in tennis and things like this, and it's really optimizing what they're doing So you're giving them value of taking bets and things like that, and then you're using that, you know, as value for yourselves. And it's sort of how does everyone eat, how you kind of all do it together, and this isn't a me versus you or a me. You know, this is this is fun. I mean, to me, this is fun, and this is just about people who love watching and, you know, could say I've never worked with 1 in my life. I've literally watched sports and horse racing now for god, I'm coming up on 40 years. If I go back to my very, very early days of when I was betting on horse racing and watching horse racing and going to the horses and stuff like that. So

Andrew Pace [00:32:04]:

Yeah. It's it's interesting that you say that, Adam. So, we we love Simon Sinek at in PlayLive. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he he drops the line working hard for something we don't care about is called stress. Working hard for something we love is called passion. And, you kinda described that, like, you didn't work a day in your life, but you probably just work your ass off nonstop because you actually just are are super interested in this stuff. So I'll, I'll actually ask you a question. And I think that just from our listener standpoint, we have a lot of people that use BookMaker.

Andrew Pace [00:32:32]:

So we I I'm pretty sure, but I could be wrong when you go to sign up for Bet Chris in the United States. BookMaker is the, the same the same lines or the same product. Would that be an accurate statement?

Adam Bjorn [00:32:44]:

So there's a lot of, use of third party stuff. They're not associated with each other. They're different companies. They don't sit on the same platform, anything like that. But there is a number of the Costa Rican, operators that either scrape or feed or use APIs, all the Donbas stuff, to to copy other things. So I think there are some variances, but there is some similarities as well. And, you know, 20 years ago, it was a lot more ancestral with how this stuff existed, but all that stuff's been very much separated now for, I think it's, like, 15 years, things like that. But, again, ultimately, people know who has the best number, the right number, and technology has made it now where all that can sort of be scraped, used, API'd, and things like that.

Adam Bjorn [00:33:35]:

And then the 3rd party stuff, the Betradars, the BetGeniuses, and all that stuff, you know, they're plug and play, and, generally, you could probably have 40 or 50 books that are all running similar numbers.

Andrew Pace [00:33:47]:

Yeah. If they'll let you have overlap from account to account, which some providers will and some providers won't. But on that note, you mentioned your, sort of affiliation and and work with BetKris. Why don't you tell us about what it is that you're working on now? And I know you also just made mention too in your previous statement there about, hey. I'll take your action here, and then also I'll place action there. So what is it that you're referencing when you're referencing or what is it that you're referencing, speaking to actually taking bets and then, obviously, placing them as well?

Adam Bjorn [00:34:20]:

Yeah. Well, the placing is, again, personal, and I don't do as much of that these days because, literally, I don't really have anywhere to play. You know, going back 10 years ago, I had Pinnacle, a few other screens, Betfair, and BetChris at the time. And then I went and consulted for BetChris, so I literally took away one of my best outs. So it was more of then going on to the risk management side, you know, the little bits and pieces that I do in Jamaica with the books there. And the exchanges are starting to the liquidity is drying up, and there's not the opportunities that there was there either, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Now there's a lot of crypto books popping up and different things like that. I've sort of been too busy to get too ingrained in it, but there is still a few things that I'll play and embed into when I get the information.

Adam Bjorn [00:35:14]:

Today, I'm running a technology company. Never written a piece of code in my life. I like to manage people after not really liking people for a very long time. And, ultimately, Bet Chris in Latin America and Prime Sports in New Jersey, Ohio, hopefully soon Kentucky Yep. Are the 2 front facing brands where I'm seeing bets coming in. And that's generally sort of the the bulk of of what's happening right now. You know, we opened in New Jersey. I think it was March 31st or April 1st.

Adam Bjorn [00:35:50]:

You open doors in any place right now, and your first 200 to 500 customers are assassins. So you can see that bet ticker rolling over, and you know that pretty much, you know, 90% of those bets are value bets and potentially market moving bets or arbitrages or things like that. So it's really just then sort of deciphering that information and taking it in and then seeing what to do with the market. So, yeah, the the betting opportunities for myself are a lot thinner than they than they were, but you still get some injury stuff and things on bigger markets that can move it where you can sort of, at least, again, find 1 or 2 people that can get down on certain things that I'm looking for. Now I have a son in us that just moved to Australia a few years ago. I've got another 5 kids that I'm waiting to turn age as well, so, potentially, I can, you know, add a few more beards to the family. But it's just sort of yeah. Again, having fun for me teaching them as well, like, you know, for me, the the sports betting, the gambling, it's just part of risk, risk management, and everything else in life.

Adam Bjorn [00:37:01]:

Right. So if you can nail it in that side and you don't fall into, you know, what some can on the gambling side of it, you know, it it roaches into other parts of your life and and learning risk management and decision making and things, across the board. So yeah. So, generally, right now, I'm trying to look for partners, that are going into other jurisdictions. We're a full stack in a sense that we host everything, UIs, risk management, everything else. So, generally, just looking for people that have customers they can market to, and then do the processing, money in, money out. And then we sort of take care of everything else, have all the other tools in the shed, and just, again, trying to facilitate because everyone's making it way too hard to just place a bet, have Yeah. Fun, and, you know, sort of the old school stuff.

Adam Bjorn [00:38:00]:

Lot of books out there chasing these 20 to 30 year olds. Me, I'm looking for 40 plus, 50 plus guys that, you know, have the bank role, know what they're doing, maybe have the time if they're, you know, sixties, seventies, old school bettors that like the 2, 3 team parlays or straight bets, meat and potato stuff rather than just, I mean, raping and pillaging on same game parlays and taking 30, 40%, back ends without people really knowing on the front ends and stuff like that. It's yeah. I mean, it's it's pretty simple, what we're trying to do here.

Andrew Pace [00:38:45]:

Yeah. I, as someone who has kinda not had children yet but have thought about it and kind of steered away from that avenue. You just gave me a new reason to, to be excited for 18 years from today. So that was that was awesome. But, you know, it's interesting because sometimes you can have an association with this industry as a whole where you think to yourself, this isn't something that I want to talk about with my children, or this isn't something that we should be exposing our children to. But when you take the approach specifically of investing in where we look at things from the standpoint of, like you said, risk management, risk reward, obviously, there's something here, and that's why people like us exist in the 1st place. Yeah, Adam. I think that, yeah, some of those guys and some of those assassins that are the first, you know, 2 to 500 to the sportsbooks that you're you're referencing there or maybe a few of the guys that are inside of our group.

Andrew Pace [00:39:39]:

But, it's a really interesting lens the way you kinda give us that viewpoint of seeing some of that action come in and actually being able to to, to look at it from the sportsbooks side and having that angle. I think that in the world of stocks, you would be behind bars for for maybe some insider trading. But I think that in this industry, I'm sure that you've had some books that haven't paid you out and and had to deal with some of the curve balls that, you know, many of us winning players, do have to face. But, yeah, the lens that you have is really, really cool. I honestly just from hearing this, you know, short segment with you, I I already feel like I look up to you in a ton of ways with, your history and and and how well you've done in the industry. So just from the standpoint of, like, how people can find you, what you're up to now, like, anything that you wanna add there, I think people would be really interested in.

Adam Bjorn [00:40:35]:

Yeah. I mean, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Twitter is where I've sort of been hanging out the most in recent times, at Adam Bjorn, bjornorn2. I've started I did a live streaming for the last round of the Golf Masters, on Twitch, so I sort of broke my cherry there. So I'm gonna try and do a bit more stuff where, again, behind the scenes stuff. I don't know how much of the ticker and stuff I can show at times during maybe a live game and, maybe try trade some, different sports, live, whatnot. You know, with the summer coming up, a lot of cricket, a lot of soccer, which is kinda niche markets for the US that I don't think people have really gotten into or understood that there's probably a lot of money to be made there, especially the US books are very soft and maybe a bit inefficient on some of these lines in sports. But, yeah, generally, the goal right now is, originally, it was to try and educate the American bettors, try and explain, you know, how it really works, what they should be looking for, whatnot.

Adam Bjorn [00:41:43]:

I've come to the realization more recently that I'm not sure that's actually a possible thing, in a sense of they don't wanna necessarily do the work. They don't wanna read the previews. They don't wanna get all the information and then come up with the answer themselves. They want the answer. They want one line, Pittsburgh plus 7 or Islanders minus half a park or something. So I've sort of kind of changed the way I'm looking at this a lot in a sense of, again, I was hardcore sports betting. I get why companies need iGaming and do the casino stuff. So again, if you're building a full stack, it's pieces that I've never really looked at or cared about, but we're sort of trying to add potentially down the road again.

Adam Bjorn [00:42:29]:

For a long time, it was always sportsbooks in the US with a red headed stepchild that they stuck in the corner, big mega casinos, sportsbook down there. You know, stay quiet. Don't get into too much trouble. Paspa rolls out. These casinos start to think that they're now sportsbooks operators, stick their head out, get it chopped off, and now they're starting to roll that back. So older me for me, it's trying to either potentially engage in taking over some of those sportsbooks and do it offering different service or whatnot, taking our technology, into other states with other partners that either have databases that have, you know, they tried it, didn't work, failed, just looking at it differently, but ultimately, it's to serve. I mean, this is a hospitality business at the end of the day, And for me, personally, it's sort of rolling out, meeting more people, finding out where they fit in the ecosystem. You know, do they have data products or building models? Is it something that, you know, I'll walk them in the back door and service them as much as I can if they're in a jurisdiction that we're in, like New Jersey and Ohio at the moment.

Adam Bjorn [00:43:42]:

Maybe they live in Latin America. Maybe they're in Asia in one place that can bet into Bet Chris and things like that. And just sort of again, ultimately, it's taking the best of the bettors, ingesting that, giving them somewhere to play, taking that information, because, ultimately, information is, you know, liquidity and information. You get those two things, then you can offset these bigger bettors and the pros and what getting that information, what's of value to you, and then you can just set up strong numbers with bigger limits where you're confident that anybody can walk through the door and place a bet, and you're at least sort of, you know, on par with them. You're not at a negative AV or, you know, behind the 8 ball, on those bigger limits. So, ultimately, for me, it's just sort of going outside of my comfort zone a lot, meeting as many people as possible, doing podcasts, whatnot to try and both educate and just make myself open and available to answer questions. And then ultimately building a business as well, and doing that in a manner where, you know, smart, you've gotta sort of take some back steps at times. I think New Jersey is a good example.

Adam Bjorn [00:45:02]:

We went out there. We rolled in with, you know, probably bigger limits than we should with the bankroll and and really sort of wanted to push forward. We put some traders in there that sort of were thinking, you know, there won't be much volume in that. We don't need to go you know, the oversight doesn't need to be as as hard. But, again, assassins come in. Numbers need to be sharper. Limits can roll back a little bit because, ultimately, you know, the players are still getting a fair bit. They're not getting limited to 25¢ on things.

Adam Bjorn [00:45:35]:

They're getting, what, the same limit that everybody's getting. If, you know, Spanky's getting even if it's a player prop and Spanky's getting $200 on it, everybody's getting $200 on it. And that's kind of the other philosophy, is the limits are bottom up. Everybody's getting the baseline house limits at worst. No one's getting chopped under that, and then ultimately, it's just, again, trying to build a business, take away the friction, and, you know, give a service that, that players and bettors deserve.

Andrew Pace [00:46:11]:

Yeah. Adam, that's incredible. I think one of the best parts of your story there too is also, you know, you're a pro bettor turned person who's now offering that opportunity to people. And, like, when I think about everything that we're doing at Imply Live and, how we try to help bettors actually make these more informed and responsible decisions that hopefully have a positive expected value with them associate as well that lead to a a long term profit. You're you're giving people like us a place, through through what it is that you're doing to be able to to wager. I know it's maybe not in all the states that you'd like it to be today, but Right. Really cool nonetheless. So thanks for that.

Andrew Pace [00:46:52]:

AdamBjorn2 on Twitter if you guys wanna follow the journey and check him out, and hopefully, we'll get to hear from him again soon. Thanks so much, Adam.

Adam Bjorn [00:46:59]:

Alright. Cheers. Thanks for having me.

Shane Mercer [00:47:05]:

Alright. That was Adam Bjoern. Man, what a life in sports betting. Incredible story there, and we only really scratched the surface. I mean, there's there's just so much more that that you can get into with that guy, and and way more than than we can contain in this single podcast episode. But what is, really cool is what he's doing with his company, their Planet Tech, and and the work he's doing with Prime, you know, to to sort of see this sportsbook, you know, launch in Ohio. And we kinda watched it then, like, oh, hey. Here's another one, you know, that that is not going to be limiting winners.

Shane Mercer [00:47:38]:

They're looking to create a a a more fair playing field, between Bettor and and Operator. And, and now, with them launching in New Jersey, you know, I think, I think big things are ahead, for that sports book. And I I'm, you know, really excited to see it, grow and and continue to maybe expand into other states. And who knows? Maybe they'll even bring it, north of the border.

Andrew Pace [00:48:02]:

Yeah. I mean, Adam's, like, it's a special guy to have on the show, you know, a betting bookmaker. So, you know, takes bets because he knows how sharp he is, but also, offers that to all winning players in in any jurisdiction between the different platforms that he has either worked with or currently, is is is working with now today. Oh, man. The conversations I've had with this guy offline since we did that, since we did that interview, Shane, are just like they're crazy. There's some stuff I can share. There's some stuff that I can't, but, like, my god. We we really only did scratch the surface.

Andrew Pace [00:48:39]:

Like, this guy found out that major players in the industry were using his lines for various different sporting and racing events, And he, like, trapped the Vegas strip into his lines, like, intentionally. The guy is, like, the guy is, like, downright brilliant, one of the one of the greatest betting minds on planet Earth, like, without question. And let's put it this way, like, when you use Prime, Prime is the sports book that doesn't limit winners. They are using Planetech to offer their lines, which is Adam's company. Right? So we've talked about odds providers and all that kind of stuff. That is an agreement between Prime and Planetech. Whereas he has been so sharp over the years that other sportsbooks, like prominent Las Vegas, you know, major brands, They've used his lines just because, like, the without that agreement in place. So that's where he was like, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:49:42]:

You just gave a great opportunity to me. I'm gonna go see what I can do with it. So what I can say is that, his involvement with inplayLIVE is is going to be increasing. And, it it simply might be, you know, a q and a with him with some of our members, but we're we're gonna we're gonna go down that path and and see where it takes us. Also, the lens that he has, I think the lens that we have at inplayLIVE is is incredible, where we get to see, like, how different sportsbooks are treating people in different jurisdictions and everything that, you know, sort of keeps us at the forefront as new members come and go. But the lens that Adam has is tremendous because he gets to see some of this live action come in on Prime and his on his platforms, where he sees, like, potentially a syndicate come in and make a certain bet, and then gets to decide, hey. Am I gonna change the line based on, you know, these people that just came in and made this action? Or am I gonna say, hey, guys, bring it on. Like, let's let it rip.

Andrew Pace [00:50:40]:

So he has that lens. He gets to see the sharp action coming in in in a way that a lot of other pro bettors wouldn't be able to see. And that's where, you know, some of the opportunities with him and the education and things like that are are just gonna be really exciting. So huge thank you to him for coming on the show, and and hopefully it's the start of a lot of great things between him, his company, and us.

Shane Mercer [00:51:04]:

Wow. That's really exciting. I'm so glad to hear that. I mean, I'd love to have him back on the show. Like I said, we only scratched the service, so there's so much more we could discuss. But any opportunity to pick a guy's brain like that, you know, that that just can't be passed up. You know? And you called him a brilliant betting mind and and absolutely. And it's so understated.

Shane Mercer [00:51:23]:

He there's no pretense there. He's just such a really kind of easily, relatable guy, you know, which which makes it that much more fun and and, enjoyable of a of a discussion.

Andrew Pace [00:51:34]:

Mean meanwhile, the guy literally betting certain strategies, like golf isn't offered live in Jamaica because

Shane Mercer [00:51:43]:

Yeah. Exactly. Right? Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:51:44]:

I go to the kiosk, and, like, they would they don't offer golf. And it's and a lot of the things that he does do really well well at are things that I maybe not, like, don't even like, I haven't even seen as a potential to even wager on. Like, the guy is so excited for the Olympics this year. You know? He's insanely excited for the euro. He he loves cricket. You know, he just he was just at the Kentucky Derby, sent us a couple shots from there. So, yeah, he he's into the, obviously, the whole horse racing world. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:52:20]:

I mean, he's he's just got a skill set that's very unique, in the betting landscape and and wagers on a lot of things that especially, you know, obviously, someone not being from North America, really, you know, you do focus on a lot of different sports that, you know, us in us in North America, we we like our basketball, our football. There is some hockey, obviously, but, you know, a lot of things. There's a lot there's a whole other sports world out there that we don't necessarily pay as much attention to as as we could, and I know he certainly does.

Shane Mercer [00:52:49]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, really looking forward to to sort of seeing his involvement with inplayLIVE and and seeing how that, develops. Super super cool stuff there. Pace, I have a feeling that a guy like Adam Jorn, maybe doesn't use OddsJamp. Maybe he does. I don't know. I mean, he might.

Andrew Pace [00:53:05]:

Well, I I think he has a lot of the technology, built into his infinite

Shane Mercer [00:53:09]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:53:09]:

Because the lines that he produced has to kind of meet in the middle with a lot of stuff. Right. A lot of times when you are up using Odds Jam, there are middles in arbitrage opportunities to Pinnacle to some of the other sportsbooks. And sometimes Pinnacle is the best line on one of the two sides. But generally speaking, Pinnacle lands in the middle, and I would presume that a lot of the lines at Prime would as well. So he certainly, whether he uses that product directly, I'm not sure. But what I love about that product is it gives us the opportunity to see all that stuff. So as you know, Shane, with the NBA playoffs, we've just been freaking killing it, some of the strength that we're we're betting on.

Andrew Pace [00:53:48]:

You know, obviously, it's not high volume, but you can really credit sometimes just having that sportsbook screen at OddsJam up to, being able to get that better line, which oftentimes is the difference of literally making a unit or losing a unit, and that can be sometimes a 2 unit swing. Right? So, yeah, getting the best line's important. You can head over to, odds jam. Just enter code inplaylive15

Andrew Pace [00:54:16]:

For 15% off every single month. You can use inplaylive for 35% off your 1st month or inplaylive15 for, 15% off every month. And then Oddsjam does have a free trial. So I know we just kind of I don't know how this turned into an OddsJam discussion. But if if you have never tried it, go try it. Put the code in. You can get 7 days for free.

Andrew Pace [00:54:41]:

Give it a give it a shot.

Shane Mercer [00:54:42]:

Just like that.

Andrew Pace [00:54:43]:

You can bet like us and like Adam.

Shane Mercer [00:54:45]:

There you go. And and just for listening to the show, I'm making this far. Now you've got 3 promo codes out there to to help you become a better, bettor. You've got the 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps, to join inplayLIVE and see what inplayLIVE is all about. You've got in play, all lowercase, if you wanna check out sxbet and, capitalize on their amazing bonus that they offer, and now, the one there for for odds, Jared. So, I mean, just the value of listening to the podcast here is is coming through in a big way, for all of you out there. Alright, Pace. What a show.

Shane Mercer [00:55:16]:

Just really pumped to to have Adam, on the show. I know that's so cool. Looking forward to to seeing what's in the future with him. But, pace, I think that's, just about it. So I'll say till next week. Keep eating those bucks. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe.

Shane Mercer [00:55:32]:

We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.