Episode 63

Shane Mercer [00:00:00]:

And then you've got the sports betting alliance in the state, which is at MGM, DK, FanDuel, Penn Entertainment, you know, all of our favorite players.

Andrew Pace [00:00:09]:

You mean they aren't hiding it under a name like ROGA, they are just calling it an alliance?

Shane Mercer [00:00:17]:

Yeah. They're calling it an alliance. Exactly. It's sports betting alliance. There you go. Right?

Andrew Pace [00:00:20]:

Why hide it?

Shane Mercer [00:00:32]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, follow us on all the socials at inplayLIVE. And if you wanna see what inplayLIVE is all about on the inside, we've got that promo code for you 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. Alright. I'm your host, Shane Mercer. That guy over there, Andrew Pace, founder of the greatest sports betting community on planet Earth in PlayRive. And, again, that promo code for you to join and see what it's all about 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. Alright.

Shane Mercer [00:01:02]:

On today's show, Washington Post sounds the alarm on AI embedding. Illinois wants to raise taxes. And have you heard of the Pro League Network and its niche sports? We'll get to that in a few moments. You don't wanna miss it. That's gonna be a fun one pace. But but, before we get started and get dive into those topics, I just mentioned pace. I wanted to ask you about something that I've noticed you've been doing. I've been, you know, I follow you on social media, and you've been doing this thing rack a day through the playoffs.

Shane Mercer [00:01:33]:

Give us, you know, for everyone out there who hasn't been sort of following your your insta, store, you know, what is this rack a day thing that you're doing? How is it working out so far?

Andrew Pace [00:01:42]:

Yeah. I mean, there's there's I have a lot of, like, little sort of niche personal passions, and my brother can attest to this. He's actually listening in as a producer and produces the podcast. So shout out to Chesto for all the hard work that he does with our our community that maybe a lot of people don't get to see. But, Rodge and I both, like, we took media classes in high school, and, you know, we we made all these stupid high school action movies and all this stuff for for projects. And we went to high school in a time where people would still present with a bristle board where you glue on the pieces of paper. Right? And we would always do we would always do movies. We'd edit on Imovie or or Final Cut Pro and pop in a VHS, and, we we our grades were really solid because we need to do a video instead.

Andrew Pace [00:02:26]:

So, like, I love editing a video, of some kind. And I think one of the big things with this podcast and inplayLIVE as a whole, like, the basis of why we exist is is to help people become, better and more informed sports bettors. And, I was like, you know, the playoffs aren't long. I don't have to commit to too much. This would be a cool series to give people some insight of some of the wagers that we take on our live streams. So I committed to a $1,000 wagers per day, or I shouldn't say per day. I should say per playoff game because they were gonna enter a time pretty soon here where we might have only one game a day. And I know this time is also coming where the challenge I committed to is gonna be a detriment to the wagers that I'm making live because I'm gonna have, like, a Thai hockey game with, like, you know, 10 plus percent vig on both sides of the line, where in order to keep the challenge alive, I'm just gonna have to pick a side.

Andrew Pace [00:03:22]:

Like, a bet that I don't wanna take.

Andrew Pace [00:03:24]:

Everything I've taken thus far in my eyes, at least even if it's lost at the time that I've taken it, has had a positive expected value. Sometimes in hindsight, I can be like, that one wasn't so good. Right? But, there is a time coming when I'm gonna press a button with negative expected value, which might sound crazy, which is why I did a $1,000. So I'm fully comfortable with making a bad bet for a $1,000, and then hoping that most of the wagers do actually give people insight, number 1, into what goes on in inplayLIVE, but also maybe some things that they could be like, hey. You know what? Like, he's done really well with NBA comebacks in the playoffs. Like, that's a bit of a trend right now. Maybe I should start looking for that too. And I will say that if, you know, for whatever reason you're not a member, you follow me on socials, and you're listening to this podcast, I'm talking to very few people, I still would highly recommend as much as the education side of it may have helped you to try a couple new things, that there are there is a lot more to it that goes into it.

Andrew Pace [00:04:22]:

Historic data, eyes on the game, and and having a a particular strategy that we have tracked where we know there's a certain ROI at a very specific time that we take things as well. So I would still recommend following us and joining and learning a bit more before you did it on your own. But at a minimum, you know, we're just trying to give some education to, I'd say, the broader betting community. And also too, there's a lot of things on social media that you see, Shane. I don't know how much you've maybe followed this. This isn't something we've talked about, but a really good example of this was on TikTok. People were doing what was called the ladder challenge.

Andrew Pace [00:04:59]:

So you try to take, like I don't know. Like, may I maybe it was $10, maybe it was a dollar, maybe it's a $100. I don't know what it was.

Shane Mercer [00:05:05]:

Yeah its a small amount of money.

Andrew Pace [00:05:07]:

Yeah. You try to turn it into 10,000. And the sports books just freaking love this shit because you're promoting the books and you're promoting, basically, not betting with a bankroll. So you take this this 10 or $100 and you try to run it up to $10,000 by going on a run as opposed to turning that into to profits, realizing the profits and having a bankroll. So so if you took the $10 to 5,000 and you're one pick away from completing this ladder challenge to $10,000, you go all in and lose it all and people will say, oh, I only lost $10. Well, it's like, no, you didn't.

Shane Mercer [00:05:40]:

You had 5,000.

Andrew Pace [00:05:41]:

You had 5 grand and you could have systematically deployed that 5,000 in a whole series of different ways. You could've withdrawn and started investing some of it. You could've, reduced your bankroll back down to a1000 and then taken some of those hopefully good picks that you had and and doing it a little bit more systematically, and you've you've thrown that all away. So, the Tim Nacki is is huge right now on on, on social media because he does a blackjack challenge. He actually just concluded it, and it it was, he ended up doing, like, 91 days, and he won $500,000 playing on blackjack. But, and I love the content. Like, I genuinely, truly enjoy a lot of the gambling content that's out there. So I wanted to go, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:06:25]:

What is this content out there, and, overall, what is the message? And, unfortunately, the message is encouraging people to gamble. Where mine might do the same, but I'm looking at it from the standpoint of going, these people that are out here are gambling. Can I actually give them something that's gonna steer them just maybe in a little bit of a smarter or better direction? And, you know, if you take, like, one of the wagers, Shane, I'll just I'll just talk about really quickly in a little bit more detail than than than what was out there. We took the Boston Celtics money line live. We did 30. Yeah. Yeah. We sure did.

Andrew Pace [00:06:57]:

Right? It was a tremendous hit. It was my favorite moment of the playoffs, I think, besides, one of the wagers we hit on the avalanche in round 1. But, tremendous tremendous wager. I noticed that the Celtics were playing just remarkable defense, and Pacers Celtics games have been really high scoring. This game was really high scoring too, but there was a significant switch in the way the Celtics were playing in real time. They made it damn near impossible for the Pacers to score. And as soon as I saw that, I was like, okay. I want a bit of money on this.

Andrew Pace [00:07:27]:

And then I saw it continue. I'm like, okay. I want a bit more money on this. And that's basically the way the the game went. You still have to kinda get lucky for them to close in a big a big gap, which they did. They went on to to, to win that particular match. A lot of people probably had the Celtics minus 7 and a half pregame, and they lost. Or a lot of people probably had the Celtics money line at, like, you know, minus 800 pregame on a parlay.

Andrew Pace [00:07:57]:

Right? And that that they got the check mark. But if you saw the video that we produced for that where you went, holy shit. He got the number that I got on my whole parlay in just one wager and got it at the perfect time more or less. There's always usually a little bit better timing out there. Maybe that opened your eyes to going, holy shit. Maybe I should just do this instead. Like or you had minus 7a half on the Celtics, which lost, and you went, oh my god. Look at the value he got by just betting it live instead of pregame.

Andrew Pace [00:08:28]:

So that's kind of what I'm hoping to get out there a little bit, and and hopefully that helps people make some better decisions.

Shane Mercer [00:08:35]:

Yeah. No. It's, it's it's been fun to watch. And then for me to sort of see it in real time when we're betting live on the streams and be like, oh, I wonder which one, you know, is gonna be part of the rack of the day if we've got a couple of different playoff games going on. But I I totally take your point on, the NHL. I think that is going to be much harder for you as the as as it goes on because, yeah, we've been seeing a lot of tie games in the NHL. So so and yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:08:58]:

And the we we have a really good chance that there's no NBA for 2 weeks now.

Shane Mercer [00:09:03]:

Right. Yeah. Because these these series both look like they could close out really, really quickly. The Celtics, too, by the way, not your only comeback call. We hit the Mavs just a few days before that. Right. And that was a big plus money as well, which was an awesome call. So so thank you for for adding to my bankroll.

Andrew Pace [00:09:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the goal. Right? I mean, that's that's kinda that's that's why you signed up for inplayLIVE. Let's hope I'm let's hope I'm delivering on, on that at least to some extent. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:09:30]:

But but really good point. And and when this airs, the series might already be over.

Shane Mercer [00:09:34]:

Yeah, right? Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Just crazy to think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:09:38]:

I wish I hope. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Hopefully we get a little more playoff basketball going. So so now now officially a Pacers and Wolves fan for the next, for the next week or so.

Andrew Pace [00:09:48]:

So but, Shane, I've also committed to this, so I'll ask you a question.

Shane Mercer [00:09:51]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:09:53]:

If I'm in no. Not if. When I'm in the spot that I have to make a wager myself where I wouldn't have taken it unless I was doing this challenge. I don't like to make wagers that I don't call to the group. So do I still call it to the group, or do I keep it to myself? Because then if I post it after and I win, people are gonna be like, what the fuck, PACE? I didn't. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:10:17]:

My you know what? My feeling would be sure. Post it with disclaimer. Yes. For For social media purposes only. Yes. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:10:27]:

This is what I'm doing for my challenge today. I strongly recommend not taking or fading.

Shane Mercer [00:10:33]:

Yeah. Well, I think if we're talking about a tie game in the NHL, I think a large portion of the In Plain Live community will will know what to do.

Andrew Pace [00:10:40]:

Right. Well, you know what? Actually, speaking of a tie game in the NHL, Florida's, Florida's overtime record, they had, I think, the most consecutive playoff overtime wins of all time. It was something like 11.

Shane Mercer [00:10:53]:

Really?

Andrew Pace [00:10:53]:

And the rangers just won the last two games in overtime. You could have gotten the rangers once the game was tied as high as, like, 2.2 or plus 120. And from the standpoint of theoretical value or positive expected value when you're betting, probably the most simple, example of the closest thing in sports to a coin flip will be a Thai hockey game with more or less equal shots on goal heading into overtime. So you could get plus 120 on the rangers when it was tied 44 in that game, and sure enough, they went on to win. We didn't bet on the rangers, but had I have had a gun to my head in that spot, I actually wanted Florida, but I couldn't get I wanted Florida, but I couldn't get Plus money on Florida.

Shane Mercer [00:11:42]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:11:42]:

And then, Plus money was there for New York, but I just didn't like that side. So I passed on it. But that would be the lean that I'm always gonna take, as a as a professional sports bettor. If you even gave me 2.05 plus 105 in that spot, there is an argument to be made that there is a small edge on the on that plus side, you know, because you are so close to a coin flip in those spots.

Shane Mercer [00:12:08]:

Wow. Okay. Great advice there to sort of carry through the NHL playoffs. Great free advice since you're listening to this podcast and you may not be a part of the inplayLIVE community, but just some of the conversations that take place on the inside. Again, that promo code for you 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. Alright. I wanna share, pay something with our audience here, that sort of caught, my interest today. And this is from The Washington Post, and it's their editorial board, which I thought was kind of striking that this is a topic they want to sound the alarm on.

Shane Mercer [00:12:39]:

So opinion, AI will transform sports betting. Duh. I think most of us already know that, but it will also increase the risks. And again, well, all right. We kind of we kind of get that. So, you know, just sharing my screen here right now so everybody can kind of get a look at it and what the headline was. But, the real kind of gist of this article is basically, you know, 2 pronged. 1 is that, you know, they think AI is is already in the process of transforming what we do.

Shane Mercer [00:13:09]:

It makes the case, though, that government regulations need to keep up with the pace of technology and well, hey. When the heck does that ever happen? Right? I mean, they're still trying to figure out what the rule should be in a lot of ways, like we covered last week in the state of Massachusetts when it comes to the practice of limiting, you know, and these are things that have been around for for quite a long time. So anyway, I digress. So this editorial board, you know, highlights both how AI is being leveraged by us, the sports bettors, to make smarter, more intelligent wagers. And, it makes me think back to somebody we had on earlier this year a few months ago, from Rhythm, Sports, which was, doing exactly that, leveraging AI to create predictive models, and you can go in there and kind of build your own models. A very sort of cool conversation. Encourage anybody to go back and and have a listen to that if you're interested. But, this editorial board at The Washington Post is also concerned about how sportsbooks can create individually tailored gambling experiences.

Shane Mercer [00:14:06]:

So they're worried about the sportsbooks tracking you, tracking your behavior across their sites, what you're betting on, how you're betting on it, and then tailoring things, you know, to you specifically, you know, that that would go after your betting style or bet or betting habits. So, you know, for them, that's a big cause of concern when it comes to the whole topic around problem betting and problem gambling. So the editorial board also highlights how 38 states have their own legalized regulated markets, but with different rules and regulations. You know, it's kind of patchwork of of law and legislation across the United States at least. And, you know, nothing really kind of tackles AI in this space at all. And right now, you know, they're sort of making the case that not only, you know, are they not not looking at this sort of future problem, but they're not even addressing the current problems that exist with AI completely. And, they point to this this, one lawmaker, Paul Tonko, a Democrat, in the House of Representatives. He's from New York, and he wants to make it illegal for operators to use AI to track individual betting habits.

Andrew Pace [00:15:18]:

Wow.

Shane Mercer [00:15:18]:

Yeah. So so he's taking it even a bit of a step further than the Massachusetts Gaming Commission, who, we we covered their meeting last at the individual level, go back, have a listen to that episode from last week. But this guy wants to make it completely illegal for them to use AI at all to track individual betting, which is part of how they arrive at limiting or at least how we think they arrive at at limiting. So really kind of fascinating here that that The Washington Post is is wanting to to to take that on.

Andrew Pace [00:15:51]:

Yeah. Oh god. I have so much to say. Like, hopefully, I can get through this and stay on topic because my brain struggles with that sometimes. So I have experienced, like, the sportsbooks for quite a long time, and a lot of people that are in regulated states, they weren't exposed to this until their states got regulated. But I'm gonna use a lot about 365 examples because that was who we all used before books were were, legalized, in Canada. And it's it's interesting. So that 365, when you used to use it on a computer, on a on an app, an iPhone, whatever the case may be, something would download into your device.

Andrew Pace [00:16:33]:

And that would be like a little hidden piece of software, that was sitting in PCs, once you had used an account with Bet 365. And they use this to limit players if they were to then, create a new account using the same device. Right? And I actually legally think they're not allowed to do that anymore, and I think it has stopped. But there was a picture, and this is again years ago, of Mark Zuckerberg. Obviously, he's the the founder of Facebook, and it showed his personal computer, and it had the piece of tape covering the camera at the top. Mark Zuckerberg's camera with a piece of tape covering it at the top. And I remember people that used to do that, and I thought they were, like, crazy conspiracy theorists that needed to put metal tins over their head. And then not only has this been proven to happen with multiple companies, it's been, like, completely factual from major companies with evidence that has occurred of how apps installed in your phone could do things that you maybe wouldn't find fair.

Andrew Pace [00:17:42]:

And a really good example of this is what's called Operation Gray Ball at Uber. So there is a television that is a dramatic dramatized series of the, uprising of Uber. It's called Super Pumped. I the reviews aren't great on it. I freaking loved this show. Absolutely loved it. And Operation Gray Ball was something that Uber did to find out who was riding in their vehicles. And the reason for this is because when Uber came out, you know, fast forward to today, it's like this simple regulated process.

Andrew Pace [00:18:16]:

You know, you order your car, you get in your car. Mhmm. It was technically illegal. So you talk about, like, you know, the legislature ask aspects of AI and and, you know, will they catch up and and that kind of thing. Well, this was a time where you had a potentially major company even though that they weren't nearly as big as they are today. They were still getting pretty big in the Bay Area. That was just basically operating on its own. No no sort of legal, system in place for ride sharing whatsoever.

Andrew Pace [00:18:46]:

They were just out there doing it. And it was one of these companies in situations where it's better to, beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. So what happened was is the regulators that were getting involved in the legal aspects the of of the rideshare sort of anti rideshare community, pro taxi, whatever the case may be, they were now finding the drivers, where the drivers were getting these big tickets that were causing them to not be able to make money from picking people up anymore. And Operation Gray Ball was Uber using the app to find out exactly who you were by turning on your camera, verifying that you were a certain politician, and also blocking the radius of where you get a particular ride, maybe close to a parliament building, maybe close to a police station, whatever the case may be, and essentially abusing the information that they had about you as a person to ensure that people were the people that were giving out tickets and the people that were influential in the legislature could not get rides. And Wow. There's a scene in there's a scene in Batman, where, Morgan Freeman doesn't want Christian Bale Batman to turn on all the cameras Yeah. Because it's an abuse of power, and essentially, Uber was doing exactly that. So I guess what I'm getting at was Mark Zuckerberg putting tape over his computer camera was for a goddamn reason.

Andrew Pace [00:20:18]:

It's because he knows the power once those apps are installed of what people can do, whether it's legal or not. And, again, operation gray ball. It even had a name, so you knew it was happening. So let's bring this back to sports betting. You're using multiple accounts potentially on one platform to try to get more money out of that one platform. Well, what are they capable of doing? Could they turn your camera on? Could they install stuff in your computer to find out who it was that was using it? Can they see your location? Right? And now fast forward to today, a lot of that stuff is legal because they're very like, before, it was like, what the fuck? They need to know exactly where I am. This is bullshit. Like, this is I feel like my privacy is being abused, all this kind of stuff.

Andrew Pace [00:21:02]:

Well, now they have to verify where you are to make sure it's legal in the legis like, it's legal in in your location. Yeah. Right? So, you know, they're capable of doing these things, and I haven't even started talking about AI yet. Right? Go back years with Bet 365. You had an online fingerprint, and they had an online fingerprint software detection system, and I don't mean your actual fingerprint, like, the the pattern of your actual fingerprint. I mean, the way in which you navigate a website and the pattern at which you do it being identifiable so that the person behind the screen could be identified or close to identified regardless of the name on the account. And this again is pre AI. I dealt with all that.

Andrew Pace [00:21:57]:

I was I was constantly, you know, sort of trying to manage. Okay. Do this different. Do that different. Try this, try that, cover your camera, make sure the software is deleted from your computer, all this stuff. And now it's way harder than all the things that I just mentioned. And and what I said might shock a lot of people. Right? It's way harder now, and it's because instead of needing these fancy softwares or turning your camera on or anything like that, they just have it all categorized.

Andrew Pace [00:22:24]:

Oh, you bet on this AI found you. You're done. AI looked at your account, went, oh, no. No. You're okay. You're allowed to keep betting that. But this person, no. No.

Andrew Pace [00:22:31]:

No. No. No. That with your location, with this, with that. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:22:35]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:22:36]:

So things are a lot and again, this goes back to the conversation last week about, not limiting players, and then you now bringing up they don't think it should be fair for AI to track these types of things. It is 100% designed to cater to the sportsbooks, to cater to losing players. And if you are not that person, the AI system will identify you potentially before you've made money. So that's where people are like, I'm limited, and I didn't make any money.

Shane Mercer [00:23:05]:

Yep. We've been seeing a lot of cases like that.

Shane Mercer [00:23:07]:

We've been having we've been hearing a lot of these stories lately.

Andrew Pace [00:23:10]:

And that's precisely how it's done. So AI and and that's only referencing the sportsbooks. Like, I think about we know exactly where a pitch is thrown in baseball. We know exactly if a a tennis shot was served in or out. 2 different sports where one's incorporated using the technology to determine whether or not it it should be in or out versus a sport baseball that's still using someone's eyes and and the issues associated with that. We know how fast Tyreek Hill, ran on his on his, 80 yard touchdown. We know the exact route and pattern of it. We know, you know, the yards after catch that Davante Adams has, any single game catch in season.

Andrew Pace [00:23:53]:

So the technology in sports, it it's a 2 edged sword. The player side of it can use this to their advantage, gaining statistics that we didn't have before, that, yes, the sportsbooks have too. But getting access to that level of information. Then we have, everything to do with statistical modeling and AI to be somewhat predictive or to predict theoretical value, which we always have had. But that's become more advanced and is gonna continue to become more advanced. And then, of course, the other side of the coin, all the sportsbooks having the same information, as well. And that that kind of leads us to, you know, where we are today.

Shane Mercer [00:24:34]:

Yeah. But to potentially even more information. And, you know, it'll be interesting to sort of see how this how this progresses. And, of course, you know, artificial intelligence just changing so much about our societies as a whole, when it comes to all sorts of different topics, not just sports betting. But, you know, this is this is an area that sort of directly applies to us. And, yeah, it'll be interesting to see if they can even sort of limit the scope of how sportsbooks use AI because it'll be one thing to say, oh, well, you can't do it for this. But, you know, they're gonna they're gonna find ways around it to to use all the technology that they have at their dispose, that they that they have available to them, and and sort of, you know, just use that to continue to to identify people that are profitable for them and and unprofitable customers. So it'll be really sort of interesting to kind of see how that, how that side of things develops.

Shane Mercer [00:25:26]:

Okay. Staying on this topic, though, of of regulation and what governments are doing, came across this one, which I thought was pretty interesting. And this is for everybody in Illinois. And I know we got some inplayLIVE members in the state of Illinois. Shout out to Shawn Schroeder, who we've had on the show before.

Andrew Pace [00:25:44]:

Touchdown Toads.

Shane Mercer [00:25:45]:

Oh, toads. Toads out there in Illinois as well. And I think there's a few others. But the state of Illinois is, I think, starting to think they didn't get enough when they moved to the regulated market and it's considering increasing its taxes. So Illinois is one of those, 38 states mentioned that has a regulated market in the United States. And the governor, JB Pritzker, wants to raise the state's sports betting tax from 15% to 35%. So to give you a sense of how that compares, only 2 other states are higher than 35%. Pennsylvania has a 36% tax rate, and New York is the highest at 51%, which is.

Shane Mercer [00:26:35]:

Yeah. Right. I mean, there you go. Right. In 2023, the bettors in Illinois, they placed 11,600,000,000 worth of wagers. And that meant that the state raked in just over 150,000,000 in revenue from from sports betting. And that was just last year. So kind of interesting to see that that, you know, the state sort of going back and looking at it and going, wait a minute, we we could get a lot more out of this.

Shane Mercer [00:27:01]:

We should be looking at 35%. So, of course, you know, the sportsbooks are like, no. No. No. 15% is great. We gotta keep it the same. But here's what's really kind of interesting that I that I think is is kind of a fascinating sort of argument that that they're laying out here. You've got this, this group in Illinois called the Campaign for Fair Gambling, which sort of represents sports bettors and people who are, you know, interested in in real responsible, gambling and responsible gaming.

Shane Mercer [00:27:26]:

And then you've got the sports betting alliance in the state, which is at MGM, D. K, FanDuel, Penn Entertainment, you know, all of our favorite our favorite players. Right.

Andrew Pace [00:27:37]:

You mean they're not hiding it under a name like Roga? They're actually just calling it an alliance? Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:27:44]:

They're calling it an alliance. Exactly. It's sports betting alliance.

Andrew Pace [00:27:46]:

There you go. Right? Why Hide it.

Shane Mercer [00:27:48]:

Why hide it? They're they're the alliance. But what they're what are the what are the things they're trying to sort of say here is that, hey, Illinois governor JB Pritzker, if you raise the taxes from 15% to 35%, well, guess what? Sports bettors are gonna suffer because that will affect the odds we can offer. Basically, it's like, hey. We're gonna have to take a higher vig. So it's like, wait a minute. You know, can you even do that? Well, of course, they can do that. They can set the odds, but it's like other states have have higher taxes. And are they how has that affected the big there? I don't know.

Shane Mercer [00:28:27]:

It's kind of an interesting conversation because I know pace when we're on live streams, we often hear things. And I know this as a as a FanDuel user in Ontario, where some of the guys in the different states, will have different FanDuel lines than I've got in Ontario. And I'm and, you know, they'll they'll be, like, calling out odds at at one number. And I'm like, wait a minute. I don't have that here. You know, I don't have that number here. Maybe that's because Ontario's taxes are too high. I don't know.

Shane Mercer [00:28:52]:

But it's it really is sort of highlighting this this aspect of, hey, it's not

Shane Mercer [00:28:53]:

a fair playing field at all, even among sportsbooks, depending on the market.

Andrew Pace [00:29:01]:

You know, it's actually interesting that you bring that up, Shane, because when we talk about regulation, we keep going back to the conversation of limiting players and that being like a real sticking point for us. We never talk about, like, VIG and house like, what the what the cut is that the house will take and and how regulated that is or isn't. Like, we we never really speak about that, and we have seen time and again. I have screenshot after screenshot of really funky lines that can be offered, where maybe it's at the end of the game, you know, where, the the sportsbooks are offering only the money line for the team that's losing and not the team that's winning. Because even if they were to offer 1.01, which which you'd need to hit, you know, 99 out of a 100 times to to break even, it that 99 out of a 100 actually has theoretical value. But then the other side, instead of it being a 100 to 1 or a 1000 to 1, will be offered at, like, 8 to 1 or 10 to 1, and it's just trying to trap bad bettors. Mhmm. But the actual vague on that, maybe you don't really see because it isn't a 2 sided bet where you have minus 110 on both sides.

Andrew Pace [00:30:11]:

Because they're only offering that one side. You don't even really think about it twice or you don't really think about it much. Mhmm. And I guess what I'm getting at is, like, that isn't regulated when the the line that's being offered there is, like, the biggest trap imaginable. The the statistical probability at some of those points where they're offering, like, say, a 10 to 1 might be closer not to a 1000 to 1, but to 10,000, a 100,000, or even a 1000000 to 1 in in some cases where the lines are being offered. And we saw this recently on FanDuel again with player props at the end of an NBA game and what it was where it was where the winning team was being fouled, like, intentionally fouled by the losing team in the dying seconds of the game, maybe 5 seconds left in the game. And they're about to go up, like, 6 or 7 points, and only the winnings only the winning team's player props are being offered, and only 3 pointers made. And it was their over on 3 pointers made when it is statistically impossible for them to shoot a 3 pointer in the game.

Andrew Pace [00:31:22]:

So they might be going to the line to go up 9 points with 4 or 5 seconds left. The opponent might jack a 3.

Shane Mercer [00:31:30]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:31:31]:

But the winning team won't. And, again, they're offering it at, like, 2.75 plus 175 when the statistical probability would require the winning team to, like, get an offensive rebound off of the free throw. And then instead of dribbling out, pass it behind the arc to that player, have him shoot the ball and make it. Like,

Shane Mercer [00:31:56]:

The kind of thing that just doesn't happen...

Andrew Pace [00:31:58]:

At least a 1,000 to 1 there. Like, at least a 1,000 to 1, and you can guess what? You if you could bet the under there, that line's not available. If you could bet the under at the inverse price of the plus 175, we would be rich beyond our wildest means if it stayed up and stayed there. Because the your whole life, you would just go to FanDuel and bet all these unders in this exact situation and more or less never lose. And it's not regulated. So it's interesting. I know this gets off topic from the article, but we haven't had this discussion of VIG and what sportsbooks can and can't do. Because Bet US is a really good example of an offshore sportsbook where late in the game, you might see minus 140 on both sides.

Andrew Pace [00:32:43]:

It's not regulated by the offshore regulators. It's not regulated by the the in state regulators. The only regulation that exists is the competitive market or landscape from the standpoint of what you do offer. And this is why FanDuel is doing exactly what I just said. It's because they're offering lines at a point in the game when no one else is. The game is over, so they're going, what can we offer that is specifically and only a trap to players? Wait in the game. And what you get is, you get the odd customer who comes along, doesn't know how much time is left in the game, and sees something like, oh my god. Steph Curry to hit another 3 pointer at 2.75? That's incredible.

Andrew Pace [00:33:28]:

And they bet on it not knowing they literally could not have won.

Shane Mercer [00:33:31]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:33:31]:

And it it's an unregulated trap. So from the standpoint of the sportsbooks in Illinois saying, hey, you know, we're gonna have to raise our vig. It sounds like they can do whatever they want in that category.

Shane Mercer [00:33:43]:

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen any regulation anywhere that ever looks at that, in terms of vague. That that just sort of doesn't happen, and it's up to the sportsbooks to kinda do what they want. And I guess, you know, that that's all part of a free market. Right? It's kind of like, hey, if you want to bet on this, we're going to offer it. That's up to you as the as the bettor, right? Yeah, it's it's a really sort of interesting kind of conversation there around whether or not that would be beyond the scope of a regulator to to sort of look at that. But then at the same time, you know, that's where you get the sharp books coming in and being like, hey, here's a here's, you know, something a little bit more fair perhaps or something on a little bit more of a level playing field or, you know, pace.

Shane Mercer [00:34:26]:

Right now, the in play tournament taking place on SXBet where the big is totally gone. And we're seeing that for anyone out there who doesn't know, we did a whole episode with bet, about maybe 4 or 5 weeks ago. You can go have a listen betting exchange in the crypto space and the Vig is almost 0. It's like it's it's it's like nothing, right? So, you know, it it sort of gives those exchanges something to stand on when they're competing with the with with the, with all the traditional softbooks.

Andrew Pace [00:34:56]:

Yep, exactly.

Shane Mercer [00:34:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool stuff there. Okay, here's something that is currently only being offered by a couple of soft books, But I thought this is pretty, pretty interesting, pretty fun. Pace, have you heard of the Pro League Network?

Andrew Pace [00:35:15]:

I had not.

Shane Mercer [00:35:16]:

You have not. Okay. So, basically, they want you to watch some of the most ridiculous sports you can. Oh, I have heard of it.

Andrew Pace [00:35:24]:

Yeah, I have heard of it.

Shane Mercer [00:35:26]:

So they want you to watch these ridiculous sports and they want you to bet on it. And that's what that's the sole purpose of this. So for everyone out there who hasn't heard of it, here's what I'll do is I will play you just a little bit of of what they are, what they're doing, and, you'll you'll get a sense of of exactly who they are.

Andrew Pace [00:35:47]:

Proleague Network, creating, developing, and bringing niche sports to market. PLN has produced some of the most viral, beddable content in recent years, and we're just getting started. Join us tonight for this special combat sports edition of PLN picks. We've got something for everyone, and you can

Shane Mercer [00:36:11]:

So there it is. So, you know, Face, here's what we're talking about. Alright? You might have seen these guys wrestling in a car. That's called car jitsu. All right. Oh my god. You've heard of the slap fighting, especially because Dana White has its own version of it called Power Slap, and a lot of people know that. But here's a few other words.

Shane Mercer [00:36:30]:

Streetball, which is 3 on 3 street basketball, you know, mini putt in there as well. But, yeah, all of these sort of weird and crazy sports now, it's already got DraftKings and Bet 365 offering PLN properties. So so each of these, sports, if you wanna call them that, is is a Pro League network property. And, you know, the sportsbooks can can choose to offer it. So it's a really kind of interesting idea. Now, the sport itself has to be, approved in the regulated market wherever it's being offered by DraftKings and Bet365. But the company says it specifically looks at sports, you know, that pop on social media. So stuff that, you know, catches your eye and makes you want to share it with your friends, and be like, hey, check out this crazy thing.

Shane Mercer [00:37:21]:

And here's the other thing, though. It's targeting traditionally down times on the sports calendar. So, you know, they're not trying to get people to bet on this stuff during football season. You know, they're not, trying to trying to do it, you know, in the middle of March Madness or anything like that. No, they're sort of targeting it kind of now ish. And as we get further into the summer where there's just less sports generally, the company describes itself as an entertainment company creating made for wagering content. So creating sports for the sole purpose of wagering on them. What do you think about this? I'm sure you've seen some of this on social media, but but what are your thoughts on that whole idea?

Andrew Pace [00:38:07]:

I've I've seen it. I've seen it. So, okay. I'm gonna put away the problem gambling discussion for this. Yeah. I'm just gonna put that aside. Let's just not even bring that up. Right.

Andrew Pace [00:38:17]:

K? We talk about that kind of stuff here. We're the one of the only people or groups that do talk about it. It's real. This is a part of it. Let's put it aside. Okay? Sure. If I think back to some of the most outrageous things, day to day that I've done with my friends, it can be anything from, you know, obviously making a wager on a golf round or on 9 holes, but then making live wagers with a buddy on a particular shot, whether he hits the green, whether the putt goes in, offering those wagers in real time. Being in Las Vegas and not even going down to the casino, but spending, like, 3 hours with buddies throwing a poker chip into a vase at a suite at the Mirage and betting on on who can or cannot make the next shot, and then handicapping live shots on top of that.

Andrew Pace [00:39:11]:

Vase broke. Mirage is coming up with a new vase for us saying, don't worry about it, mister Pace, like and we're throwing their $100 chips into these vases. Being in Vegas again and the Ocho coming on, because this network kinda reminds me of the Ocho where they they play some less popular sports. Seeing a cornhole match on, trying opening up sportsbooks to try to find lines to wager on it, it, not being able to find it, and then all of us in the room, betting on different players based on what we've seen in that match already and and essentially being a live exchange in that moment, betting amidst each other only to find out after the fact that, of course, we are watching a rerun.

Shane Mercer [00:39:58]:

Of course.

Andrew Pace [00:39:59]:

And then, Shane, fast forwarding to this podcast where we aired a FanDuel ad in one of our very first episodes that showed thinking about every aspect of your life in bets. Will the bag break? Will the bag break, leaving the grocery store? And then that actually leads me to something that's much more productive than everything that I've just said, and this is one of my favorite books. I'm an audiobook guy, not an actual reader. One of my favorite books that I've ever come across, and I highly recommend listening or reading this book if you are into the stuff that we talk about on this podcast. And it's called Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke. And it's actually rather than that being a negative thing, a positive thing because it's putting life into probabilities, and it's actually sort of this concept of thinking about things differently because of probabilities and and basically, making that a way that you look at life. And it was kind of like me reading a bible about myself when I read it because I was like, oh my god. Someone's saying all the things that I do in my day to day life and the way I think about things being like this highly productive and effective way to to go about your life.

Andrew Pace [00:41:17]:

Really, really great read. And then, yeah, you get to this network, and it's like, I can't not laugh. It's fucking awesome. You know? Like, does it give me a new avenue to make money? Probably not. But it's it's freaking funny. And at the end of the day, like, I enjoy being entertained. Forget about the gambling aspect. There's gonna be some I like watching a good powerslap highlight.

Andrew Pace [00:41:40]:

If you're telling me these 2 people are gonna fucking step in the ring, and I've heard, like, the first place person will win, like, $5 in that. And I'm like, what? God. You couldn't pay me 500,000 to do that. And I'm like, you're doing this for $5, but you're telling me 2 consenting adults are getting up there and doing that, and I can watch a highlight of a guy getting knocked out and half his cheek falling off because he voluntarily did this, that's entertaining, and this is in line with that. So we're gonna get some good content from it. And, from the problem gambling side of things, maybe not the best place to go deploy your bankroll unless maybe, you know, maybe you do find an edge over there. Well, I

Shane Mercer [00:42:14]:

was just gonna say, right, like, maybe you can find an edge just like in all other sports. Right? There's there is usually some way to find the edge, although it'll probably take some trial and error. But pace from the sounds of it, then no card jujitsu masterclass coming to inplayLIVE. Oh, God. Maybe. You never know.

Andrew Pace [00:42:33]:

Let's never never say never. Justin Bieber.

Shane Mercer [00:42:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. There you go. Exactly. It'll be interesting to watch this, this network and see if it grows and and how it does. And, you know, I I think it will create tons of fun social media content. But, for now, I'll just, stick to the stick to the sports side now.

Andrew Pace [00:42:51]:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'll I'll join you there.

Shane Mercer [00:42:54]:

Alright, PACE. It's been fun. Great, great show this week. Great conversation, as always. Really enjoyed it. Before we go, anything you wanna share with the audience?

Andrew Pace [00:43:03]:

Nothing too crazy going on right now. We got CFL starting, next week. Friday or Thursday, CFL kicks off. People might be like, Pace, who cares? It's a great sport to bet on. A really great sport to bet on. And there's lots of exploitable strategies and opportunities in that sport. So let's get, super excited for that. And then, yeah, we have, you know, obviously, the finals of the playoffs coming up, which is a super exciting time, and there's gonna be a exclusive inplayLIVE party held in Vancouver by a sportsbook that is trying to put themselves on the radar.

Andrew Pace [00:43:41]:

That is gonna be a ton of fun for the start of the NBA playoffs that all the members are gonna be invited to if they can make it out for. Wow. I know it's a long way for a lot of people. But, yeah, there's gonna be a sportsbook hosting, in attempt to, gain traction. A new sportsbook, that found us, knows exactly who we are because I rinsed them for $25,000, and, they still wanna do it. So That's not fair. Them yeah. We've given them the caveat.

Andrew Pace [00:44:09]:

No one needs to enter a code or anything to link us together. It's just another way to to play on a book, and, yeah, they wanna they wanna host us. So, should be a lot of fun. I think that as the industry progresses and as we continue to network with great people, you know, guys like, many of the people that we've had on the show, you know, from Odds Jam to, Adam Bjorn to Harry Crane to, you know, SX, and and the list goes on and on. There's gonna be a lot of new opportunities that can benefit members of our community as well, that that I look forward to. And and, you know, we have to pick and choose our spots as as a podcast, as a company, and go, okay. This this one makes total sense, like s x and other ones where we go, you guys aren't necessarily the kind of people that we wanna be working with. So, but if someone wants to throw me a party and invites me and spends a bunch of money for us all as members to have fun, I'm not gonna say no.

Andrew Pace [00:45:04]:

I'm gonna say thank you. So looking forward to that.

Shane Mercer [00:45:06]:

Oh, that'll be awesome. Wow. I wish I could make it, but that's all the way on the other side of the country for me.

Andrew Pace [00:45:11]:

You're coming.

Shane Mercer [00:45:12]:

This in August?

Andrew Pace [00:45:13]:

No. You're still coming

Shane Mercer [00:45:18]:

Okay. Well, we'll we'll we'll talk about that offline and see what's up. It's a it's a it's a literally the opposite side of the country for me. Canada's a big, big country. Alright. Yes.

Shane Mercer [00:45:28]:

We could talk more about that later. But you're right, though. These you know, these are great opportunities, and, we hope to keep bringing you more voices from the industry that align with our beliefs and values and sort of share

Andrew Pace [00:45:38]:

Yes, sir.

Shane Mercer [00:45:38]:

The same ideology that we do. So, we'll we'll be looking to bring you more of those voices as, as the show continues. Alright, buddy. Well, till next week, keep eating those books.

Andrew Pace [00:45:47]:

Cheers.

Shane Mercer [00:45:48]:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.