Episode 66

Andrew Pace [00:00:00]:

So that's led to this sort of fun, creative, good looking actor dude being the, not the face of the company, but the head of marketing with the company and not knowing anything about sports betting. Oh, no.

Shane Mercer [00:00:26]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, follow us on all the socials @inplayLIVE. And if you wanna see what it's all about on the inside, see what our community is up to. We have that promo code for you that is 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. I encourage you to use it. You'll get the very best pricing available, and you'll get to connect directly with guys like me and that guy over there, Andrew Pace, the founder of inplayLIVE, only the greatest sports betting community on planet Earth. And that is why we encourage you to use that promo code to join us. See for yourself.

Shane Mercer [00:01:04]:

Maybe I'm just talking a lot of a lot of hype over here, talking a lot of crap, but, no, that's not the case. Join, see what it's all about, and then decide for yourself 'BEHINDTHELINES', all caps. Alright. Pace on today's show, course siding, changing the game of golf, maybe. MLB umpire, disciplined for betting. Yeah. We got an involved now. Canada restricting advertising, maybe looking at taking it a little further right across the nation.

Shane Mercer [00:01:31]:

And pays a UBET party review. I'm looking forward to talking to you all about what's going on with UBET and the big parties that have taken place in Vancouver. So that sounds pretty awesome. We'll get to that in a moment. But, PACE, I want to start off with this article out in The Washington Post from our friend, Danny Funt, good friend of inplayLIVE. PACE, you've chatted with them before in the past. He wrote an article in The Washington Post fresh off the US Open this past weekend. And it's kind of interesting because I think this is 1 of the first times where we're really seeing the impact of wagering on the actual game or event itself.

Shane Mercer [00:02:13]:

Now I know, you know, we've seen a lot of people yelling about their bets at basketball games and and baseball games and in hockey games and that kind of thing, but it's kind of interesting here given the the location being the US Open, and you're at a golf course. And so this was held at Pinehurst in North Carolina, state that recently legalized sports betting. And the headline on Fund's, article here is 1 soundtrack at the US Open heckling from gamblers. So, you know, everybody who who who knows anything about golf or has been at a golf course pace, I know that you like playing a little bit of golf. You know, golf is played quietly, at least a little bit quietly when you're taking your swing. You know? And so, you know, if somebody decides that they're gonna yell at someone, it's pretty clear what they're saying. Everyone can hear them. And, Fund even quoted this 1 guy here who yelled at at Bryson.

Shane Mercer [00:03:06]:

Hey, Bryson. I've got a $100 on you to shoot over 70a half today. So here's the guy. He's heckling the guy who goes on to win the US Open. Bryson, of course, taking it down over the weekend. But, you know, Bryson was asked about it afterwards, and he said, you know, this is this is a a quote from Bryson. Whether betting is a good thing or not is up for debate. I personally think if it can help grow the game and bring in a bigger audience, I'm all about it.

Shane Mercer [00:03:31]:

So that's you know, there's Bryson. I mean, he's making a great point there, though. But, you know, golf being 1 of these sports where you can just get so close to the player. And it almost doesn't matter what kind of ticket you purchased or how much you spent to be at the event. If you've ever been to a live golf event as a spectator, you can move between holes. If you can get yourself a really good position on a particular tee deck or something like that, you can get within feet of these players, and it's really, really easy to to let them know what you think, whether good or bad. Paste your thoughts on on the article and and and kind of this whole idea of course siding and maybe, you know, having an outweighted impact on the game compared to other sports.

Andrew Pace [00:04:14]:

Yeah. I think just with courtsiding in general, the the window of being successful with that is has closed or is closing. Mhmm. If sportsbooks haven't and odds providers have not taken a defensive position in some capacity there yet, they're really behind the times. Like, it's really not something that should be overly effective today. Maybe gaining, like, a really small edge in perhaps, like, basketball, you know, because you got a basket ahead, but you're still gonna the the books books are gonna close with 4 3 or 4 minutes at at least left in the quarter. So, like, you know, you might have gained a small advantage, but if there's a score on the next basket or, you know, depending on what you took, you can just quickly just as quickly lose that that advantage on the next possession. And, if you're just chasing the advantages back and forth the whole way down the quarter, can you make money? Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:05:09]:

Sure. You can. But, I I just think that that isn't necessarily something that's gonna be overly effective in golf. Like, my understanding, of of golf wagering live with hole by hole stuff is once they've teed off on on that hole, the markets are already down. Typically, they're down a couple holes ahead. So I don't think there's much there. As for the rest of it, you know, guys screaming at people and telling them what they're betting on and things like that. I mean, in 1996, we already saw this.

Andrew Pace [00:05:37]:

Right? It's Happy Gilmore.

Shane Mercer [00:05:43]:

Imagine we start seeing those kinds of seeds on on, you know, at a US Open or another major.

Andrew Pace [00:05:48]:

Yeah. And I mean, like, the Happy Gilmore model was kind of baked into the waste management, turn out in in Arizona and Scottsdale there. So, you know, I think it's it's it's all good and fun, and and heckling in general has been been around for a long time. It's just obviously with a little bit of a different different edge on it now. And, I mean, I just look at it and I'm like, hopefully, that motivated Bryson to be a little sharper and and to to, you know, give Pete Weber infamously was kind of, you know, who do you think you are? I am the the US Open winner. In his 30 for 30, essentially, there was a conspiracy to say that who he was heck arguing with and and heckling with in the crowd, you know, bowling, another quiet sport where before he he goes to you go to take your shot, it's quiet in in in the stadium there in in the bowling alley. There was a conspiracy saying that he he created someone to argue with in his head to get him to the next level. So, like, there's an argument to be made that a guy like, you know, Bryson in this spot uses it as motivation.

Andrew Pace [00:06:59]:

So it's like a heckler saying, I've I've got you to screw up. I've got you to screw up this round. You know? That that might just be more motivation that led him to the top of the leaderboard. Who knows?

Shane Mercer [00:07:09]:

It it very well could be. It absolutely could be. You know, it it could also, though, depending on the golfer, go go in the opposite direction. And I just think, you know, you're probably gonna see a whole lot more of this in golf. But I do like Bryson's take on it in in the sense that, you know, hey. If he's bringing more people out here to the course to watch us play and and the audience is growing, then he's all about it. And I think we're seeing that, you know, happening in a lot of different sports, right, when it comes to sports betting and it it's sort of really sort of fueling interest. You know, women's basketball sort of comes to mind.

Andrew Pace [00:07:41]:

Yeah. And I think just from the standpoint of, like, mental sharpness, I think that golf may be the single most difficult sport to deal with the challenges of the game and then the mental battle that occurs, you know, throughout the weekend in a tournament and then add a major on top. So a fan heckling you and Bryson's response is is probably the right response. It's saying, hey. If you're supporting my income, if you're supporting this sport, if you're making the sport bigger and better as associated with betting, and you wanna come here and try to heckle me, you know, you might get kicked out or whatever depending on how how far it goes and how bad it gets. But that mental toughness is important, and you shouldn't let it yeah. I mean, I've been in baseball stadiums where, you know, the poor left fielder on the road team is just get freaking like, it's like there'll be people who have devoted their life to bringing this man down. They've done all the research.

Andrew Pace [00:08:40]:

They know everything about the guy, and they're gonna absolutely tear this guy down for 9 straight innings. And, you know, you have to deal with that as professional athletes, and you you have to have the mental fortitude and strength to to not let it mess you up.

Shane Mercer [00:08:54]:

I I may have heckled an outfielder once or twice in my in my younger in my younger years at the at the Skydome or or Rogers Center as it's known now. You know? A lot of a lot of fun in that. Right? I mean, hey. You're you're out there having fun at the game. Okay. I'm glad you brought up baseball, though, because, man, baseball has really been feeling it when it comes to the sports betting scandals this season. Of course, we saw, Shohei Ohtani and his interpreter, a couple of other players to, 1 of, Ohtani's former teammates got caught up in an investigation. And now we are seeing an umpire being disciplined following a sports betting investigation by the league.

Shane Mercer [00:09:33]:

Now, I wanna point out so this is Pat Hoberg, and here's what, the MLB said in a statement. So they say, while MLB's investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by mister Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way. The MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mister Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded. So he's appealing. You know? We don't really know what he was betting on, when he was betting on it. Was he betting on baseball? Was it another sport? But we know that the league here is saying, you cross the line and we're gonna disappoint you.

Shane Mercer [00:10:17]:

Of course, he's appealing it, so, you know, we're not gonna find out more information for a little while until till some of those details come out. But, you know, Pasek, if you're in the MLB and, you know, you the the season started with 1 of your biggest stars being embroiled in a betting scandal, and now here you are with an umpire. You know, the person on the field or at least 1 of the people on the field that is supposed to be maintaining the integrity of the game being disciplined for sports betting. I mean, that's gotta be a big concern for for the entire league. But I'll be very interested to see what comes out. I mean, maybe he wasn't betting on baseball at all, and he's just, you know, who knows, betting on golf.

Andrew Pace [00:10:55]:

Right. I I just, like, flip back to the the the most recent but early example, the Calvin Ridley scandal, for lack of a better term, where he got disciplined so severely. And if you guys don't know, I mean, Calvin Ridley was making parlays that had nothing to do with, like, any any sort of manipulation or rigging. He's losing money, you you know, kinda similar to a couple of these MLB guys that have recently been busted. And this is where you think about the draw of gambling. Right? So you're not forget about this umpire for a second from from the standpoint. Like, let's look at Calvin Ridley. You are not rigging the game that you are playing in.

Andrew Pace [00:11:35]:

Mhmm. You have an amazing career ahead of you, a tremendous salary. You're not allowed to gamble. Do you not understand that? Is that 1 side of it? Sure. Okay. But let's just pretend that you do. You're so drawn to this that you still go and do it, risking your, you know, your career and things like that. Then, obviously, you get into, like, the NBA, Johntae Porter.

Andrew Pace [00:11:58]:

It's like, okay. He is trying to manipulate the game for his own gain. Totally wrong, totally illegal, shouldn't be in the game, all that kind of stuff. Sure. But at least, like, at least he was using his position to try to gain an advantage. Whether you think it's right or wrong is a different story. I definitely am on the wrong I think it's wrong. But at least he was like, some of these these guys, they're out there gambling, and it's like, dude, just don't don't do it.

Andrew Pace [00:12:26]:

Like, you've got a great life, a great career, a great situation. Yeah. But, you know, I guess some people just can't help themselves. In the case of this umpire, I mean, we really don't know what the situation is. There isn't we don't really have the details. But I mean, I look at it. Like, I watched I watched the jays play the, guardians, yesterday. We're filming this on a Monday.

Andrew Pace [00:12:48]:

The amount of missed calls, it in no way felt like rigging. They were bad on both sides, But it is freaking insanity to watch a game where you're like, you did not just call that a ball. You did not just call that a strike. And and then, you know, you put this into the mix, and you go, what is the upside of these guys on the field now in this day and age? You watch a tennis match, Wimbledon, US Open, whatever, and we don't need to question whether or not the ball was in or not. We know. So why would we leave that up to human error? Like, we know what is the upside of having a tennis judge call the ball out when it was in fact in. There's no upside whatsoever. So we're at the stage with the MLB now.

Andrew Pace [00:13:38]:

Forget about the gambling stuff, but then add that in. We're actually dealing with an umpire that's potentially rigging a baseball game that we could just watch the freaking box, and it can tell us whether it's a ball strike out, whatever. Like, let's let's let's advance this game already. They've and and credit the MLB. A a baseball game is so much more viewable today than it was 5 years ago. It's quick. It's on a nice timeline. There's none of this bullshit in between pitches.

Andrew Pace [00:14:08]:

In between innings, pitchers have to stay on the mound for a certain amount of time as to limit, you know, those types of long changes that can slow the game down. It's very watchable. They need to make this next step, and they need to make it yesterday.

Shane Mercer [00:14:20]:

I think that's a great point there that you brought up that, you know, we've got the technology, and we sitting at home can all see what it is so clearly. You know? It's like it's it's just it couldn't be, you know, any more clear, but then you see a human who's out there who isn't, you know, who who doesn't have sort of, you know, artificial intelligence built in and and, you know, machine powered learning and all that sort of technological stuff that that sort of is used to analyze these games and give us the incredible broadcast, you know, that we're now privy to. It it makes you wonder, like, do we need the umpire at all? You know? And then could could you could you remove, you know, a few umpires and, you know, just let the cameras and let the machines tell us what's what out there.

Andrew Pace [00:15:06]:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:15:08]:

You know, but I I it's just it's it's really sort of interesting to see, to to kinda see it all unfold this way. But I think, yeah, you you know, you remove more people, then you're gonna not have those betting concerns. But those people probably, you know, maybe being at a conflict of interest and that kind of thing. So, it'll be interesting to see where things go, but I absolutely agree with you on the sense that the MLB has done a lot right in terms of improving the game over the past, few years because, yeah, you know, baseball game was notoriously known for being so slow. And, you know, you might have to commit, you know, a 4 hour window if you wanted to watch a whole game. And now that that's not the case, games move along at a really good pace and that that that's definitely beneficial, for the league and the game and anyone who likes baseball. So that's always great to see. Okay.

Shane Mercer [00:15:53]:

Hey. So here's the topic that you have commented on in the past when it came to celebrities and their involvement in sports books and advertising. And there is now a new piece of legislation in Canada that would apply across the country, And, it's called bill s 269. And so this is a Canadian senator, named Marty Deacon who has put this forward. And, basically, they want to limit the amount of sports advertising that we're seeing on broadcast. They want to have it reduced in some way, shape, or form exactly how, where, when, and why, is still sort of up for debate, but they really wanna look at it. And they're also pointing out to Ontario that did, in fact, ban, athletes and celebrities and influencers from being in, ads promoting sports betting, not ads promoting responsible gambling. That's still allowed.

Shane Mercer [00:16:55]:

And, some people think that that's a huge loophole in in the system, and and we've talked about that here on the podcast before. But, this is this is taking it sort of a step further, and it is across the country, not just in in Ontario or or 1 province. But I'll just run off, some of the things that they're looking to do here. So identify measures to regulate the advertising of sports betting in Canada with a view to restricting such advertising, limiting the number, scope, or location, or a combination of these, limiting or banning the participation of celebrities. As I mentioned, they wanna promote research and intergovernmental information sharing related to prevention and diagnosis of minors involved in sports betting. So really sort of targeting the youth or at least, looking to protect the youth from targeting by sportsbooks and national standards for the prevention and diagnosis of harmful gambling. But I think what's most interesting here is that in this, CBC article, they've referenced a previous, investigation. And, you know, that investigation found that sports betting messaging now makes up 21% of all sports broadcast in Canada.

Shane Mercer [00:18:05]:

So you sit down and, you know, say, a baseball game, for example, as we just mentioned, it moves along a little quicker. But, say, a 3 hour game, you know, 21% of that. We're talking about, you know, 40 minutes, 45 minutes of that broadcast is going to be sports betting messaging. Paste, do you think that we need some kind of legislation that limits the amount of advertising we're seeing out there?

Andrew Pace [00:18:30]:

Yeah. I think this is just further evidence of just Ontario because that's kinda what this is based around, just not knowing what it was that they agreed to and we're getting into. It's like you can't you can't legalize something like this where, number 1, the business isn't going to do and take the steps to be as profitable and exposed to the public as they possibly can be. You know, multimillion dollar, $1, 000, 000, 000 companies, they're gonna advertise. They're gonna find creative ways to do it. They're gonna involve celebrities. You know, they're gonna be on the major broadcast with ESPN. They're gonna be letting people know that there's a way to wager on this game before it starts and live and have people giving advice on it.

Andrew Pace [00:19:16]:

They're going to sponsor the stadiums and be on the sides of the courts, the ranks, the rate the fields, etcetera. So I don't know. It's like, what did you think was gonna happen? You know? It's it's very naive. Like, there's there's a lot of literature lately that I've been exposed to just about cause and effect and, you know, the immediate action versus the long term, I guess, impact. And we're not even long term yet. Like, this just started, and here we are where we've taken this action, and then we're surprised in trying to mitigate the the impact or the the effect where it's I don't know. It just seems obvious to me. Like, you didn't think this was gonna happen.

Andrew Pace [00:20:00]:

But as we know, Shane, like, we are being inundated with this stuff and, you know, it is made easy or made to seem easy in a lot of cases. And I think that people have now woken up to the betting boom, you know, and going, hey. You know, this this isn't for me long term. You know? And and kinda tried to step away from it to an extent. So, yeah, I mean, from the standpoint of of what can be done and do I agree with some of this stuff, I kinda sit on the fence in a lot in a lot of these discussions. I would I would say, you know, putting aside the whole, like, did you not know this was gonna happen discussion, you know, it it's like alcohol or cigarettes, like tobacco. Right? Like, there are warnings on the packages. There are warnings on the broadcast.

Andrew Pace [00:20:50]:

There are certain times of day, that you can and can't advertise. You know, there certainly are rules around all of that. There definitely are steps in place to to protect minors. You know? So I don't think gambling is any different, and it certainly has come out of the gate with absolutely no restriction regulation, no player protection. Like, I'm always gonna come back to that. Right? And this is 1 of the many things that certainly could be improved upon. And to be honest with you, you know, 1 of the 1 of the biggest things Paris said last week that really I kinda took home and resonated with me was this discussion of bonusing and the race to the bottom. Mhmm.

Andrew Pace [00:21:38]:

You know, sportsbooks putting in all this effort, all this energy, all these ads, all these promos, bonuses, and inducements. And, you know, her looking at that is like, hey, guys. You know, you're you're burning money. It's a race to the bottom. You know, so will these sportsbooks have the outlets still with new regulation being brought in to get the same amount of sign ups? And, you know, if we just take that 1 snippet from Paris last week and apply it to this, it's like, well, yeah, that they're still gonna they're still gonna get sign ups at a similar rate. I don't see these big banners and ads for Pinnacle. I don't know how Pinnacle's position is in Ontario compared to some of the other books, but I'm I'm not I know they're not number 1, but at at the end of the day, like, they're not doing that stuff, and they're they're in Ontario with with sports bettors, you know, using their their services. So, yeah, I I think that would kinda be my stance.

Andrew Pace [00:22:37]:

So I guess it's like even with the regulation taken, what I'm what I'm gonna say that doesn't get rid of this. You guys chose to regulate sports betting. So you've got sports betting now.

Shane Mercer [00:22:49]:

Shocker. You know? Like, it's here. That and now you gotta deal with these companies and all of the tactics that they're gonna use to target everyone and anyone they possibly can. And, yeah, you know, you've you've made sort of the reference to to smoking there. That's what these sort of lawmakers are kind of looking at. Right? They're sort of saying, hey. You know, we did this with smoking. We put up the warning labels.

Shane Mercer [00:23:07]:

These things made a difference. We need to do that here with sports betting. And, you know, I think they I I definitely think they have a point. I'll also mention though, this is not a law yet for anyone out there who thinks that, oh, you know, Shane just told us there's a new law in Canada. No. I didn't. No. I didn't.

Shane Mercer [00:23:24]:

This is a piece of legislation that has passed second reading in the senate. It still would need to go to the House of Commons and move through the House of Commons because it was brought forward by a senator. It's a long way out. And, what the concern is, at least sort of from, from the the lawmakers is that they may not even be able to move this piece of legislation 15 months before the next election. So they've got, you know, they gotta move it through in the next 15 months because if we go into another election, then everything sort of resets after that when it comes to to lawmaking in this country. And on top of that 15 month period, there's a whole bunch of time where our politicians don't work. So that's through the summer. You know, they'll be off for, about 8 weeks through the summer.

Shane Mercer [00:24:12]:

And then there's a whole bunch of other breaks, a big, long, similar break that takes place around Christmas, and there's other breaks in there too. So, this this piece of legislation could be a long, long way off, before we see anything, countrywide if we ever see it at all. But I do think it hits home with a lot of people. I know, just anecdotally, a lot of my friends that love sports and maybe they bet a little bit recreationally or maybe they don't bet at all. But generally speaking, the feedback I hear from people is they are sick of the apps. You know? They they know where to find the sports book if they wanna place a bet. They don't need to be told to go back here or there or anywhere else. So, yeah, I think I think that's a real sort of consensus feeling that that exists out there, in in the sports world.

Shane Mercer [00:24:56]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:24:57]:

So, Shane, I'm just gonna pop 1 more note on this 1 here. Yeah. I'm in British Columbia. Right? And playnow.com is our only licensed and regulated, like, official book in BC. It's the it's the BCLC, like, government lottery book. And, like, we definitely see ads for play now.com here. But we also see ads separately of of ads, you know, that are maybe targeted to Ontario that happen to be broadcast here. Well, that's a very common thing in Canada.

Andrew Pace [00:25:21]:

Right? Right. Like, we also pick up, like, you know, CBS and NBC and Fox, the major US broadcast. So whatever might be airing there, we might pick up on a on an ad for them that obviously can include a whole a whole whack of different things depending on the time of day and what it is that you're watching. But a real eye opener for me was a couple years ago being at, Thursday night football in San Francisco. And California to this day doesn't have legalized sports betting. Right? And they've obviously done whatever it is that they, you know, can do to keep these regulated books out of that obviously very major and impactful state in the grand scheme of the United States and potential bettors. Right? So, obviously, there's a lot of offshore betting there. Obviously, you know, there's a lot of, you know, bookies and things like that in California because they very much have a place there with, you know, books like DraftKings, FanDuel, etcetera, not having access to to, to the players of California.

Andrew Pace [00:26:23]:

So I was walking to Levi's Stadium. And if anyone's been to Levi's Stadium, you know that you can't get dropped off at the stadium. You have to be dropped off, like, 30 minutes away, and you gotta you gotta take a nice long hike into the stadium in order to in order to get, get there. So, you know, depending on your walking speed and it being AAA major game, you know, with 60, 000 fans or whatever going to it, you're you're gonna be privy to other groups and other conversations that were going on. I shit you not. There was 3 different groups that I either passed or they passed me that I noticeably could tell they were talking about their bets for that game or betting in general. So it was public. It was out there, and it was, I guess, hearable at, you know, walking shoulder to shoulder type distances from from other people.

Andrew Pace [00:27:13]:

And I I thought that was interesting because, you know, here I was in California. I've obviously been following, you know, the whole betting landscape, and I know that I'm in a state that is not legalized. We get into the stadium, and what do we see in the stadium? Like, massive ads for DraftKings. What the fuck? You know, we're in California. Right? And there's a lot of things that these sportsbooks are doing, and and it wasn't just DraftKings. It was sportsbooks everywhere, all over the all over the the walk up and right into the stadium. And it's the broadcast that are actually filming, you know, the court, the field, whatever. And, again, the reason why I said I'm from BC is because, you know, we have Betway on the ice here.

Andrew Pace [00:27:57]:

Right. So can you use Betway in BC? Yes. So that does that make sense? Yes. But Betway is on the court at Chase Stadium or Chase Arena Stadium for the warriors again back to California. It's on the court, and you can't use Betway there. It doesn't work. So a lot of what these sportsbooks are doing with these ads, whether it's a regulated landscape or not, is getting the viewers of the broadcast eyes on those areas, but also anticipating legalization. So it's a kind of a 2 pronged approach so that either when it's legalized, you know where to go, or if you're watching from a broadcast or you're in a regulated licensed area that you can then, of course, go and sign up for that site.

Andrew Pace [00:28:46]:

Well, the California regulators did all this work, or legislation government, whatever, did all this work to keep sports betting outside of California, to not legalize it there. But they don't even realize that the advertising side of it is still prominent. And if I can't bet at DraftKings and I'm in that stadium, it's going to cause me to look up what I can bet on. So this advertising thing actually is deeper than the regulation itself because of the fact that it is still causing that sort of chain reaction or chain of events to a potential consumer, whether it's in a legalized area or not. So I found that really interesting when I kind of went through that process of going both games. I went to the the, NBA in San Francisco and the NFL in San Francisco. And just seeing that whole yeah. Like, AAA state that's not regulated or licensed for for legalized sports betting to have all of that going on.

Andrew Pace [00:29:52]:

It just shows you, I think, that there is something here for the regulators to look at given, you know, the effort to keep some of it away and then still have it be so present.

Shane Mercer [00:30:03]:

Yeah. That's a really sort of interesting, story there. And and it it does make the make it clear that, you know what, maybe you can't just ignore it and try to push it away because no matter what, it's there, and it's it's at your doorstep. And it's it's not at your doorstep. In this case, it's in your house. You know? It's it's there, and you can't just ignore it. And so maybe that's where you say, okay. It's here.

Shane Mercer [00:30:28]:

We have to acknowledge it, legalize it, and regulate it in a fulsome way, you know, and not just sort of be like, alright. Well, hey. We'll open the doors. But, no, open the doors and make the rules very, very clear, for for everybody. Yeah. Not surprising either that that, you know, California of all places, they're probably gonna be advertising really hard there because they wanna be first to market in what would probably be the biggest market in that country, aside from New York.

Andrew Pace [00:30:59]:

Yeah. Exactly. And I think that that this will kinda segue segue us into our next discussion here. But, there's a whole other side of this. And then from a regulatory standpoint, it just goes to show you that when you overtax, when you overregulate, whatever the case may be, there's a whole series of strategies that then come forward that will be some sort of loophole. And that could be, you know, someone moving their money somewhere else, someone finding tax deductions, you know, working with, maybe an accountant that has has, you know, some gray areas. You know, the list can go on and on. But in Canada, 1 of the things, especially pre legalization, that we saw here and we still see to this day is sportsbooks advertising a free platform.

Andrew Pace [00:31:51]:

So 1 I'll give you an example right now. You can go to bet99.net. Okay? And bet 99 is a sportsbook. But if you go to bet dot bet99.net, what you just went to is some sort of free site, and there'll be a sign up link. And that might mean that you actually play on a sportsbook or play in a casino for free, but you can't do it. Maybe it's a news site, whatever the case may be. When you land on the page, you can't do it without signing up. Once you sign up, then, obviously, you're gonna get a bunch of bonuses, sign up offers for the actual paid site.

Andrew Pace [00:32:33]:

So it's this again, going, okay. We wanna regulate this and them going of all the offshore stuff that we used to see, them going into their pockets for what they used to do. So, you know, it could be really interesting with some of this advertising stuff where it's like, you can't advertise PointsBet, but you might be able to advertise pointsbet.net or something similar that then brings you to the free version that technically isn't advertising gambling.

Shane Mercer [00:33:04]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:33:05]:

And we've all like, I guess what I'm saying is I'm not even being creative here. This is what I've seen for years years years of what some of these these sportsbooks do. So that's something that, obviously, again, the regulators probably don't even really know about or will think about or fixate on in any capacity that would happen if some of these these changes, were to pass. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:33:27]:

And we know that these sportsbooks have unlimited number of tricks at their disposal that that they'll figure out, and they'll they'll find those loopholes and and work their way around them. You know, just like we we saw, in Ontario, as soon as that, ban on athletes and celebrities came out, well, boom, instead of, Connor McDavid, you know, promoting betting, he starts promoting responsible gambling for for BetMGM. You know? It's just like, okay. We could still use the guy. We could still get our our product out there. Yeah. They'll always find, though, those loopholes, those loopholes, and and exploit them for sure. Okay.

Shane Mercer [00:34:04]:

Pace, you've got a sportsbook that has really been, doing a lot of promotion over there in British Columbia. And, to the to the extent that they've thrown a big party for inplayLIVE members, not once, but twice, I think. Right? And you guys Just once. Just the once? Okay. My bad. Just the once. But they've thrown you guys a really big party, and, I guess it just happened, towards the end of last week. Talk to me a little bit about UBet.

Shane Mercer [00:34:33]:

What are they doing, and how was the party?

Andrew Pace [00:34:36]:

Yeah. So just to kinda tell the backstory really quickly. I posted a review of the I'm always looking for new sportsbooks. Oh, yes. I think everyone everyone knows that about me. So I came across Ubet as a new cryptobook, and they've they're very new. And I was like, okay. I'm gonna go play here.

Andrew Pace [00:34:55]:

Did very well with them. Made a bunch of money and cashed out. Everything was reputable, clean, simple. And it was around the time that I was like, I'm gonna start posting a couple of betting reviews on my social media, like sportsbooks reviews or different things that I that I come across. So I posted a little review, and then they actually their team saw it, and they got in touch with me. And it was really interesting because I just brought up bet99 and bet99.net, but it reminded me of the bet99 thing, with inplayLIVE where they were so excited to work with us. They promised us a bunch of stuff and it lasted just a few days. And that was kind of that.

Andrew Pace [00:35:33]:

Right? And I actually, on the call, this guy named Jason, who I've now met, really awesome guy, I I shared all those stories with him. I'm like, hey, man. Like, look. If if you wanna pick my brain about something, ask me a question, by all means, I'm happy to happy to chat. But I wanna be very clear, like, it's kinda me against you in this world that I live in. And, you know, that's my approach to this. This is what happened with us in Bet99, told him the whole story. I'm like, you're probably not talking to the guy that's gonna, you know, help you too much with with, you know, getting the players that you're looking for to grow your sports.

Shane Mercer [00:36:11]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:36:12]:

And, yeah. I mean, that that kind of I don't know if it motivated him or what, but, you know, I he he was pretty persistent and kept chatting with me and tried to offer me a few different things that, I declined all of. I said, the only thing that you can offer me of real value would be letting me keep my account. And he'd went to the trading team, and they said no.

Shane Mercer [00:36:37]:

So so I just I wanna get this clear. So you played with them. You won. You cashed out. They limited you?

Andrew Pace [00:36:43]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:36:44]:

Okay. Full unlimited. So just treat it like any other soft book would would treat you. Right? And and Sure. They limited you. And then this guy, Jason, reached out to you?

Andrew Pace [00:36:52]:

Well, I did my review.

Shane Mercer [00:36:53]:

Oh, you did your review. Right. So the review got the conversation going.

Andrew Pace [00:36:57]:

Yep. Right. And then yeah. Yeah. You know, the he he he he had a bunch of different ideas. Like, you know, can we pay you to make your review an ad? Like, the review I did. He's like, we wanna run that as an ad for a sports book. I said, you know, I said I said no to everything.

Andrew Pace [00:37:14]:

I I just said, like, hey. Like, I'd rather have a free call with you where we chat, and you can be like, hey. Can I ask you a question about this? And if it's something that I think is, you know, harmless and something that I'm willing to answer, he's been a nice guy to me. I'm I'm not gonna say no. So then, you know, this has been a couple months now. He said, hey. You know, we wanna throw you and your guys a party. All food, drinks paid for.

Andrew Pace [00:37:42]:

You know, bring all your sports bettors from Vancouver out, and and and let's let's, have some fun. And I was again, I was like, hey, man. Like, dude, like, you you've got the wrong group of guys. Like, we're we are sharp bettors. We are gonna make money off of you over over time. And, I mean, he's been pretty candid with me on the flip side. Like, hey, man. Like, I'm the chief marketing officer.

Andrew Pace [00:38:05]:

My job is to get players in. What what happens from there, you know, kinda doesn't matter. And what I have learned in this process and something I'm gonna touch on a little bit more from the event is just how disconnected the sports book and the team at the sports book are from the odds provider and the trading team. So there's the whole, like, past the buck where the sportsbook doesn't take ownership for the situation, and then there's obviously the marketing and things that we get. Like, all of us sharp bettors will get promotions to deposit to a site that we're no longer playing on that we can't play on or we can't play on with any reasonable amount of of an actual limit that's reasonable. And the reason why that happens is is because of this disconnect. So, anyways, we put on the event. There was probably, like, a group of about 20 guys, from from inplayLIVE that that were there.

Andrew Pace [00:39:03]:

And then there was probably a solid 50 players that were either friends of mine that aren't members of Imply live or people that were invited through ads that they ran. Okay. So everyone showed up, you know, free food, free drinks, put the basketball game on. It was game 4. So it's just a horrible basketball game from, like, a viewing standpoint because the game was over in, like, like, the Q1. But, yeah, it was it was fun. It was, effective. They got a bunch of people signed.

Andrew Pace [00:39:31]:

Like, I actually know what happened. He told me 50 people, deposited into their site that day, which I think was great for them, a new sports book to get those kind of players in. But, yeah, we chatted quite a bit. This guy's an awesome dude. Basically, what happened was the sportsbook contacted his marketing company. He did had us has a host of He's been the host of Entertainment Tonight. He lives in Calabasas. Like, it's, you know, it's like a Hollywood type guy.

Shane Mercer [00:40:02]:

Cool.

Andrew Pace [00:40:03]:

Which I found out which I found out about him. Yeah. So they contacted his company to do this big production and this big ad for launching in another country. I don't know what country he said. Oh. They did the whole production, the whole ad, everything. He sat down with their marketing team a whole bunch, and then he took the owner or the CEO or whomever it is aside, and he said, hey. Like, your your marketing team just doesn't know what they're doing.

Andrew Pace [00:40:23]:

I would do this, this, and this, if if, I was in your shoes. So a couple months go by, he gets a phone call, and he says, hey. Couple things. Number 1, we're not gonna air the video that you guys made. We're gonna shelf it for now because we're not going to that country anymore. We're gonna go to Canada instead. Oh, okay. Number 2, will you be our chief marketing officer? And we'll get rid of those guys that you didn't like their ideas.

Andrew Pace [00:40:49]:

So that's led to this sort of fun, creative, good looking actor dude being the, not the face of the company, but the head of marketing with the company and not knowing anything about sports betting.

Shane Mercer [00:41:04]:

Oh, no.

Andrew Pace [00:41:05]:

So so he'll be like, Paste, I love your videos. What's this whole thing like I'm taking a quarter unit or a half unit?

Shane Mercer [00:41:10]:

Oh, no.

Andrew Pace [00:41:11]:

So I explained to him. I'm like I'm like, sportsbook don't want I'm like, if you deposit a $1, 000, they want you to play it right away. If I'm betting 10, $20 at a time, that's responsible betting. Like, sports folks typically, you know, they they don't talk about bankroll management and and and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, he's like, oh. And, like, what I found out was the trading team and their team had known who I was and sent emails back and forth about my account and what I was doing. This is prior to me speaking to them. He he told me this.

Andrew Pace [00:41:44]:

He said constantly. So they're following everything I was doing. They're trying to figure out what it was that I was doing. They were seeing if there was, you know, ways to derisk this, that, and the other, etcetera. You know, all the lines are still the same to this day. It's it's a major odds provider that they work with. It's it's BetRadar.

Shane Mercer [00:42:03]:

Oh, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:42:05]:

So, like, it's interesting. You have a small book where a guy like me comes in and obviously is gonna gonna hit them and take make a bit of an impact on their overall early days in profitability. You know, as as we've alluded to on this podcast and people that we've spoken to is if you start a new book, you know, add I think it was Adam Bjorn that said the first 4 or 500 guys. I don't know if he said it on the podcast or off. It's like they're gonna kill you. They're gonna be killers because those are the only people that are gonna find you. And then after that is where you settle in and see if you can actually survive. Right? So, yeah, I just the whole process was interesting.

Andrew Pace [00:42:36]:

You know, it's interesting. You know, it's a short, little, fun, quick event.

Shane Mercer [00:42:41]:

Everything went fine. No issues

Andrew Pace [00:42:41]:

there at all. You know, obviously, they got some sign ups, which was their their goal coming in. How those sign ups play out with them over the long term, I think they'll do well because I think it was a creative marketing strategy, and they got a lot of people that came that were not members of inplayLIVE that didn't know me or I didn't know them. So I think that from a sports book, rather than, you know, throwing points bet up on the screen or whatever it is that we've been referencing from an advertising standpoint, you know, had a took a very hands on approach where every person that's walking in is is meeting this guy. He's helping them sign up. He's giving them a little bonus and and different things like that to actually get, players on board. I think it was a, obviously, not a very scalable marketing strategy, but an effective 1 for, you know, what it was. But, yeah, just seeing firsthand the lack of connection from the major players that own or operate the sports book next to the training to trading team.

Andrew Pace [00:43:40]:

I always knew that, but it's just a whole other level than than what I thought it was, and just the lack of betting knowledge in general. I said a few words at the event, and I let them know who I was, and they were offering 6 to 1 on the Celtics money line. The Celtics got thumped, and I opened by saying I have no idea who's gonna win this game right now, but what I do is teach people how to beat sports specs sportsbooks like UBet. That's my opening remarks at the thing. And and I said, so because they're offering this promotion to us and they're giving us a $100 bonus, I'm like, I'm gonna teach you all how to make money tonight. You're being paid to be here. So you deposit a $100 USD to the sportsbook. They're matching you with a $100 instantly.

Andrew Pace [00:44:25]:

The max bet on the Celtics money line is $50. They're offering it at plus 600. So you put the $50 on the Celtics money line. And if they win, you know, you're paid out $350, right, plus the initial 50. Like, you take your other $150 that they've given you, you put it on the Mavericks money line. If they win, you know, you're getting paid back $300. And I'm like, so you're in for $200. You can cheer for the you can cheer for the Celtics then, because it's gonna pay a little bit more on that side.

Andrew Pace [00:45:00]:

But, ultimately, you turned a $100 into $300, and it's USD. We're in Canada, just for just for having shown up. And, like, the he the the person who put the event on didn't understand that.

Shane Mercer [00:45:12]:

He had no idea. He had no idea that you were telling the room full of people to arb on their site.

Andrew Pace [00:45:20]:

He didn't understand how to do it.

Shane Mercer [00:45:22]:

Oh my goodness. This is like he sounds like a great guy. Sounds like a No.

Andrew Pace [00:45:27]:

He's honestly, like, I would be I would be I want to be friends with him now. Like, I've really enjoyed hanging out with him and and everything. But, yeah, it was it yeah. I mean, it just goes yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:45:37]:

Yeah. And he sounds like a fantastic guy. Sounds like a great guy and everything. Has no idea what he's doing. Like like, no clue. Like, it's it's it's how can you work in a space and not understand even the most basic elements of it?

Andrew Pace [00:45:54]:

Well, I I'm actually gonna defend him there because I think he did a lot of positive things and got some great sign ups and things like that. He's a marketing guy, and he did great marketing. It's the sportsbook side that he doesn't understand. He's trying to understand it, but he doesn't understand it. And at the same time, he does have a trading team, and he does have other experts that he can go to when this stuff is happening. But there is just a little bit of that the lack of numbers and statistical understanding that's going on where, you know, you're trying to enter the space and, like, here come the killers, like, as Adam referenced, and you're not ready for them.

Shane Mercer [00:46:28]:

You're not ready for them. Well, Pace, put yourself in the in the shoes of the trader or or the trading team or the people on that side of things. You hear that your chief marketing officer is out there telling a roomful of a 100 people to arb your book.

Andrew Pace [00:46:43]:

Well, he didn't tell them I did.

Shane Mercer [00:46:45]:

Right. You did. But but he brought you there. Right? He brought you there, and you told them this is what I do. And, you know, I teach people to make money.

Andrew Pace [00:46:52]:

To be fair, if anyone's like, Pace, that's kinda ridiculous. I I told him in advance that if he offers a promo, I'm gonna be letting them know to do that. And I said, if you're not comfortable with me telling them to do it on your book, I'm gonna be tell giving the best line at a different book.

Shane Mercer [00:47:05]:

At a different book. Right.

Andrew Pace [00:47:06]:

He he wanted it to be through his book.

Shane Mercer [00:47:10]:

He said he wanted it to be through his book. I get the like, it really is a great, great story, though, to really sort of crystallize this concept and that disconnect that exists because it's not just that UBED. It's it's it's soft books everywhere that have this this in this unbelievable disconnect between, you know, the people who are running their marketing teams, the advertising, and, you know, that side of it. And then the people who are actually there evaluating bets and, you know, making determinations on who gets to play it, who doesn't. And and, you know, 2 different worlds entirely, and you gotta wonder sometimes, like, how how how do you expect to run a profitable business in this way when when half of the people are you know, I'm generalizing here, but but half of your team doesn't understand the fundamentals of the business?

Andrew Pace [00:48:01]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there was all also something else that really surprised me at the event. So I wouldn't say that that really surprised me. It was just like it was it was almost reassuring of some of the things I'd

Shane Mercer [00:48:12]:

Right. Thought before Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:48:13]:

But almost to a further extent than than what I knew it to be. And that was that this book, they are integrating Fiat into their ecosystem soon. But right now, as far as I know, certainly at the day of the event, was only, cryptocurrencies. And they do have like, 1 of the things you'll see on on a lot of crypto sites, but not all of them, is some sort of method to purchase cryptocurrencies on the site through a more traditional platform. So from your credit card or from your debit card or from an interact etransfer or something like that. So they do have that, but a lot of banks will block, you know, a crypto purchase or something like that and think that it's fraud. So it'll get blocked and flagged or whatever the case. But I have friends that were there that aren't members of inplayLIVE that are familiar with cryptocurrencies.

Andrew Pace [00:49:11]:

And the roadblock of funding the account using crypto was way more significant than I could have ever imagined. They probably lost a lot of easy and instant deposits in that room that day because of people who were there, who were now excited to get this free money that I told them how to get how to get Mhmm. And then going around and then going, okay. Just click here and then watching the bank block it or them being like, oh, I don't understand this crypto stuff. I don't want any part of it and things like that, and the lack of ease for people with that hurdle. Right. So I put myself in the shoes of me in that spot where I was like, okay. I am you know, this is obviously a little while back now, but I am going to start using some of these sportsbooks that, only not allow crypto, but only have crypto as an option to deposit and play with.

Andrew Pace [00:50:10]:

And I know in that moment, like, I almost don't even think about this as a significant piece or period of time, but, like, I know in that moment it was like, okay. I have to figure out how to do this. And for me, it was like, okay. Let's just, you know, cross over this hurdle that's gonna allow for these next levels of success in my personal betting journey. And there might be some questions and some uncertainty and some mistakes made, because I you know, that definitely happened with me. But at the same time, it's like, okay. Let's figure this out. Let's get it done.

Andrew Pace [00:50:39]:

But, like, the amount of people that went from, you know, okay, I'm here. I'm doing it to, nope, not for me. Like, I was actually kinda shocked by it.

Shane Mercer [00:50:47]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:50:48]:

It just yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:50:49]:

Yeah. The you know, the crypto barrier for entry on those books is, is is a tough 1, especially when you have people that, you know, maybe have never owned a cryptocurrency ever in their life. Right? It's it's like, you know, how do you convince them to to do that? Right? They, you know, they've never sent Bitcoin to anyone before. Right? Yeah. It's it's yeah. That's a that's a sort of interesting way. I wonder what they'll what they'll do to kind of overcome that. You know, it's, yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:51:20]:

It's interesting. And, you know, I kind of ran into it a little bit with SX Bet, and, you know, you know, we've had them on the here on the podcast before. And, you know, Pace, I know you're playing over there, and I I did some playing over there as well, but, you know, signing up and going through that process. And I'm somebody who has, you know, done some stuff with cryptocurrency before. I'm no expert by any means, but, you know, I've I've bought and sold cryptos before, and I've, you know, sent Bitcoin before and other other cryptocurrencies around. So I kind of had a a some familiarity with it, and it was still a bit of a barrier. So, yeah, I can only imagine what it must be like for somebody who's, who's never done it before. Mhmm.

Shane Mercer [00:51:57]:

Yeah. Interesting stuff. Well, Pace, I'm glad you got out though and got to see a bunch of people out at the event and other inplayLIVE members. That's pretty awesome. And it's a nice sort of, way to tee up the big, inplayLIVE event that's taking place for pro members in August in Vancouver. Really looking forward to that. Pace, how's the planning going for that?

Andrew Pace [00:52:20]:

Good. Yeah. It's gonna be a ton of fun. I'm pumped. Yeah. We got cornhole. We got softball. We got food, drinks, you name it.

Andrew Pace [00:52:27]:

It's gonna be a blast.

Shane Mercer [00:52:28]:

Awesome. And when we talk about barriers for entry, there's a lot of people out there who might be listening to this that aren't a part of inplayLIVE Pro. They're just a part of the basic membership, or they might not be a part of inplayLIVE at all. But if they were part of members or they're not a part at all, they can still get in on the event by joining Pro just for the month. Right? Just to give it a try.

Andrew Pace [00:52:50]:

Yeah. I mean, from a planning standpoint, we're gonna lock the RSVPs up pretty quickly. So people would have to, if people wanted to come to the event and that was, like, a reason for them to join, they would need to have have done it, by, I'd say, there's maybe a 2 week deadline on it now. So they'd have to join sooner than later for sure. If you are a member of inplayLIVE and you're not a member of inplayLIVE pro, you can let us us know that you're coming. And then, obviously, just by then, you'd have to have your your pro membership.

Shane Mercer [00:53:17]:

Cool. Well, I can, speak firsthand. It was an awesome event last year. It was great to be there, and I'm looking forward to being there again this year. And, there you go. 2 week deadline, guys. If you're thinking about it, you wanna get in, maybe you're not a part of pro, there is still a window for you to come on out and, and meet all of us in person, which is just such a great time. Lots of games, lots of fun, food, drinks, everything.

Shane Mercer [00:53:35]:

It's it's such a fantastic opportunity to to meet people in real life and and maybe even place a few waitress in real life. So a lot of lot of fun there. Hey. It's glad you had a great time with UBET. Really interested to hear how the relationship develops over the next little while and where things go from here. But, I think that's just about it for this week. So, Pace, keep beating UBET, and everybody else out there keep beating the bucks till next week. Take care, guys.

Shane Mercer [00:54:00]:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.