Episode 73

Andrew Pace [00:00:00]:

This was sent to me on July 26th. I just told you that last week, I dropped that reference to being featured on The Washington Post. Right? This week, they paid me the 25100.

Shane Mercer [00:00:16]:

Oh, okay. So they you got this wow. This is fascinating.

Andrew Pace [00:00:27]:

Can you believe that?

Shane Mercer [00:00:38]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, and follow us on all the socials @ inplayLIVE. I'm your host, Shane Mercer. That guy over there, Andrew Pace, the founder of inplayLIVE, a community of like minded sports bettors dedicated to long term success. And on today's show, a lot of news with some notes. Betway leaves the US. DK is taxing winners. Massachusetts is chasing sportsbooks for a meeting.

Shane Mercer [00:01:08]:

All of that and more. But first, Ace, you're coming off quite a week for the business of inplayLIVE and the business of betting. You went to Bet Bash in Las Vegas, a huge event put on by Spanky, who we had on the show just a few weeks back. And I encourage all of you to go back and have a listen to that episode if you haven't, if you hadn't yet. But, Pace, how was it? How was BetBash? Was it what you thought it would be, more or less? What give us the rundown.

Andrew Pace [00:01:37]:

I I think for the side of it where you go, you know, was it what you thought it would be? No. Because I had no thoughts of what it would be, to be honest with you. I think, like, the way it all went down for us, even attending, let alone sponsoring the event was all so last minute. We're like, should we go? Well, if we go, we should sponsor it. I'm away for, you know, 3 weeks in the desert, and then all of a sudden, we cut that a day short to make sure that we fly out for BetBash. It was all just like, okay. Exhale. We're here.

Andrew Pace [00:02:08]:

Yeah. So hadn't been home in, like, a month, but BetBash was awesome. I highly recommend it. They do a lot of really cool things that are all very pro player. A lot of the things that we touch on in this podcast, you know, over the time that we have, you meet like minded people that are very much, yeah, in the same boat, you know, winning players that are looking for, you know, new angles, new edges, you know, a lot of teams, like, from syndicates onward that are are doing a number of different things to make money from betting on sports over the long term and, you know, that are that are there to meet new people and and connect and network. You know, great seminars on, different topics. I can only speak for the ones that I attended, but, it sounded like, you know, you could the the walls weren't completely soundproof from one seminar to the next, so there was definitely a lot of big laughter, going on in different rooms and people having fun. Definitely a lot of alcohol was available at the event.

Andrew Pace [00:03:07]:

I I very much, stayed away from any heavy drinking, but it also enjoyed a couple beverages. You know, we took a couple bettors out. 1 of the one of them is now a member of inplayLIVE, for dinner at the steakhouse at the Circa. And then, you know, you're just in that Circa environment, which winners are welcome there to play there. They don't limit their players and, you know, the sports gambling hall of fame's at Circa. And, you know, they had they have, the the the headquarters there for VIZN, the the sports betting show, and then there were seminars where the people, that that, you know, record and host those shows that we're actually putting the seminars on. You know, Billy Walters was on the panel there, so a bunch of people got to meet him. You know, they had, seminars where, you know, you're actually talking to people that vote for the Heisman.

Andrew Pace [00:04:00]:

You know, they're in the room with you telling you, you know, some of the things that that you look at. We talked about corruption in betting. Like, they can bet on the Heisman and vote for the Heisman.

Andrew Pace [00:04:10]:

I was like, what? You can bet you can vote on and bet on who the Heisman is is, gonna be this season? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But all in all, really awesome. I didn't stay for the final day. I had to get back for our Friday night livestream, which was well worth it, which was, yeah, really awesome. But, I I wasn't able to to attend the hall of fame dinner this this year. But, yeah, all in all, really great experience.

Andrew Pace [00:04:35]:

People there have a lot of fun and and obviously to learn and grow. So definitely definitely in line with everything we do.

Shane Mercer [00:04:41]:

Okay. That that that's it sounds like a a fantastic time. I'd love to go, next year if possible. But I sort of wanna ask you a little bit about, like, hey. Well, what made you kinda go, like, you know, was there something that that sort of popped out to you while you're there? Something that made you go, I never thought about it like that before. Something that you really are are sort of bringing back and and maybe excited to share with with the IPL community.

Andrew Pace [00:05:03]:

Yeah. I think, like, I know we have a lot to get to to Shane Yeah. Today, Shane, because all of our episodes had guests, recently, and I think that that trend's gonna continue. So I hope you guys have enjoyed that, as listeners. But, the the question you just asked is is like a full episode guarantee.

Andrew Pace [00:05:19]:

I'll just I'll just touch on, you know, a couple of things and and one of the things that at this time of year that's actually extremely relevant as we head into football season is just theories about teams. So, like, the most obvious headline, that you're gonna get in the NFL is are gonna be related to Caleb Williams right now. Is he gonna be good? Is he gonna live up to the hype? How how are the bears handicapped for the season to win the Super Bowl, to win their division, their over under on wins, their receivers, the fantasy implications? There's a massive question mark there. There is every single year whenever you have, you know, sort of a a a highly prospected rookie, coming into the NFL. And, like, really notably, you can look at guys like Trevor Lawrence who, the hype couldn't have been higher. Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield. I know Trevor Lawrence didn't win the Heisman, but, like, these Heisman winning quarterbacks as they enter the NFL. You think back to a guy like Andrew Luck, who was the 1st overall pick and in his 1st season led the Colts to the the playoffs.

Andrew Pace [00:06:27]:

A guy like RG 3 who won the Heisman and didn't necessarily take his team to a championship or major bowl game. Lamar Jackson, another guy who didn't take his team to a major bowl game and how they're gonna, you know, translate to the NFL. RG 3 took the Washington Redskins to the NFL playoffs, and the hype on him couldn't have been higher. His ankle fucking, like, flipped over sideways in one of the most grotesque injuries I've watched on a field, and he never was the same again. You know, Lamar Jackson has been all the hype and more to an extent, but still hasn't gotten to the big dance. Right? So I guess the ultimate takeaway with that's relevant for this time of year is how to have a theory and actually profit from it. And what I mean by a theory is you think Caleb Williams is he sucks. You think he's gonna be amazing.

Andrew Pace [00:07:22]:

Like, do you wanna bet offensive rookie of the year? Do you wanna bet a Bears win total? Do you wanna bet a division win, a Super Bowl win, to go to the NFC championship? Like, the list goes on and on of what you can bet. So there's a whole bunch of different ways that you can prove your theory whether it's positive or negative, and some of them are gonna be priced horribly because of the hype, if you believe in them. And the flip side to that is they'd be priced extremely well if the hype's really high and you don't believe in them. You know, then you take an example like Drake May, where people just think he's gonna suck and that's baked into the line, but if you actually, for whatever reason, have a theory that he's gonna be good and how you can wager on that. So the 2 the 2 takeaways that I'm, I'm ultimately getting at here in this this sort of long winded approach, The first would be approaching week 1, 2, and 3 with the theory instead of the season. And when you do that, there's different ways that you can approach it, but going, hey. I'm actually gonna bet on some milestone type player props. I'm gonna bet on some same game parlays that I believe have an edge, based on my theory.

Andrew Pace [00:08:35]:

And the reason why you would take this approach as opposed to, say, a season long wind total or something like that is because books will adjust quickly if your theory is true, and the high payout potential in the early weeks is something that will only exist for a very short period of time, and the odds of the things that we're discussing or that your theory could, provide in being true are in, like, the 20 to 1 plus range that's that you can see come into fruition, much sooner as opposed to waiting an entire season, which, of course, bears the potential for injury and and everything else. So that approach to it being something of real interest. So, to give an example of of something that that, you know, might fall into this category. And, guys, I am not looking at lines right now. This is not betting advice at all. This is just me shooting from the hip, but it could be something to do with Caleb Williams rushing for a certain amount of yards, throwing, a certain amount of yards and potentially winning the game in week 1. Or, maybe week 1, you don't like the matchup, but applying that logic to week 2 or 3, where, you know, you don't have to risk a ton of money if your theory is wrong, which the odds imply that you will be wrong on your theory. It's not a real hit to your bankroll, but if if your your theory is correct and it does come into, you know, obviously reality for you, then you you're making a nice, a nice, hopefully, a nice payout, before the books adjust, to that particular player.

Andrew Pace [00:10:11]:

So that was something that, you know, I'm I won't even do myself. I'm not gonna do any of this, I don't think, but I just thought it was really cool to hear, and I thought it was it was it was definitely something, you know, that could be applied to, you know, those early weeks of multiple football seasons. The same goes for college football. Right? So, you know, maybe you're high on some of these teams that are now in new divisions, and you have theories about them that you don't believe are handicapped correctly. You can make that same argument for a Washington Huskies, you know, super excited about them this year or maybe against the Washington Huskies now moving into what you might wanna argue is a more difficult division with new coaching staff, and they don't have Michael Penis junior anymore. Right? So, like, you know, these are the these are the the things that you can have theories about. You know, obviously, Oklahoma and Texas moving into the SEC. The list goes on and on.

Andrew Pace [00:11:04]:

So you come up with a theory, you develop that theory, and then and then take a a low risk, high or sorry, a high risk, low income approach to to proving it right.

Shane Mercer [00:11:16]:

Wow, Pace. You might have me making, like, some same game parlays here on Caleb Williams now. You know,

Andrew Pace [00:11:22]:

Probably was a terrible example.

Shane Mercer [00:11:24]:

I sorry, Shane. I actually think it's a terrible I I think it's a great example, though, PACE, because I think you're right in one sense in that Caleb, he he's dominating all discussions in the NFL world. So whether that's that's what you're reading online or the conversations you're having with your friends and your fantasy leagues and all of that, it's all centering around him, and he's very polarizing. You know? It's either you're falling on one side of the fence or you're falling on the other side of the fence, and, you know, a lot being said about his his off field, persona, shall shall we say. And that is factoring into people's biases as well. And, I I think all of it is is is, you know, fun conversation in the lead up to football, and we always seem to have a couple of players like that before any, NFL season that really kinda get get people sort of divided and having those those fun debates and that kind of thing. But, you know, I I just think that transition to the NFL is so difficult. So maybe, you know, with the with the hype train rolling for Caleb Williams and maybe the books getting on that hype train, Maybe a maybe a fade Caleb Williams, same game parlay might be might be getting cooked up, in week 1 there for me, Pais, just to to sort of give it a try.

Shane Mercer [00:12:33]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:12:33]:

For sure. And I I think some people will be like, oh, why are they now talking about the very thing that they say has the greatest health edge? And and and it's specifically if you have correlated, you know, same game parlays, where the books are in a vulnerable position because they don't know either, but they have to do their best job of handicapping it, that is your time to prove your theory right. And if you're wrong, again, it's just like this low, bankroll hit approach to to it. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:13:00]:

Yeah. Like, I certainly wouldn't be putting a full unit on something like that. It might be, like, a tenth of a unit or something. You know? Definitely not what I would be, betting live. And if it if if Caleb Williams is showing that that he's the guy, then then maybe there's a live bet to be made on on the bears or something that would just totally offset any kind of same game parlay you might have pregame.

Andrew Pace [00:13:20]:

Yeah. And I I don't know if I mentioned this, but I do think it's important. The the the alternative to this would be betting like a spread or a win total at, like, minus 110. And if you're wrong about your theory, you may have lost a bigger chunk of your bankroll. Whereas if you're right at your theory, it isn't to say you're gonna win this bet. It's that you have a crack at something that could be, you know, much more profitable for you than, you know, like a minus 1 10 spread or win total.

Shane Mercer [00:13:48]:

Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Cool. Well, there there's so much I do wanna ask you more about BetBash, but I think you're absolutely right that it is a full episode. And maybe we can we can tackle some stuff next week because there's we we've had so many great guests on that. I think we're at that bash as well or some of them that made it there and you're able to meet in person. And we've heard so many different things from them that that there's a few topics that I kind of want to dig into.

Shane Mercer [00:14:09]:

So maybe maybe we can look at that for next week and chat more about that bash and, and and some of these, sports bettors and and some of the things that that we've heard from them.

Andrew Pace [00:14:17]:

Yeah. And I I just wanna say, Shane, just one thing while we are still on air here about BetBash was it was really freaking cool having a couple of things happen. Number 1, having former and current members that I didn't even know that were attending come up and works being being excited to meet me and chat about their experience.

Shane Mercer [00:14:35]:

That's awesome.

Andrew Pace [00:14:39]:

Yeah. And and, like, a a good example of that, like, there was a guy from Florida who came up to me who was a member for a month, and floor was Florida wasn't legalized. He said he had a blast listening to me and just couldn't take the bets himself, which, of course, then I have some education for him to be like, hey. This is how you can do it. You know? And and hopefully hopefully, we'll see him back sometime, but he he was pumped he was pumped to meet me. The second thing was people, Shane, who have been impacted by this podcast that are not members that came up to me and say they watch every episode of our podcast and really appreciate what we've what we've done for their betting journey. I had a guy who had reached the 5 Figure Club approach me that's never been a member and has just learned from listening to us.

Shane Mercer [00:15:22]:

Holy shit. Wow, man. Oh, dude. I'm I'm getting goosebumps hearing that. Thanks for sharing that with me, man. I'm really glad. And to everybody out there who's listening, whether you're in play whether you're in the inplayLIVE community or not, happy to have you, as as part of our audience and and sort of on this journey with us, as we sort of just try to work together to beat the books long term. It's it's not easy, but, you know, it helps when you're when you're part of a team like this.

Andrew Pace [00:15:46]:

Right. And then number 3 was meeting all the guests of the podcast. So I want to do a shout out to everyone who's been a guest that I got to meet in the last week. Whether I I met you or or not, shout out to all of our guests. And, all the new listeners that we probably have tuning into this episode after BetBash having met us. So, like, got to hang out with Rob Pizzola and meet his team. Got to hang out with Paris and meet some of the owners of Pinnacle that she introduced me to. You know, I learned because we went to the live circles off podcast recording with, Rob and Johnny, which, by the way, those guys are fucking awesome.

Shane Mercer [00:16:24]:

Yeah. They they do a killer show. I listen to it on on the regular. It's it's fantastic.

Andrew Pace [00:16:28]:

Yeah. And and so in in their live live recording, one of the guests that they said is, like, their sort of whales or, like, you know, goal type guest was Paris Smith. So I thought that was hugely validating that Paris actually chose to do the episode with us. That would not not over them. That's not what I'm referencing. They they deserve every bit of credit that that they have, in the industry. But, yeah, just just hearing that live was was really cool. And, yeah, like, you know, meeting meeting Adam and, Spanky and Fats, Fats was just fucking all time, like, all time.

Andrew Pace [00:17:02]:

This guy was rolling around trying to get free swag from everyone at every turn and angle. He was he was taking an EV approach to to every booth he could he could land himself at. So, yeah, he's just rolling around collecting swag galore, but, you know, as the guys that come on to give, so they come on to this podcast to educate, to inform, to impart wisdom and all that. Like, meeting them in person is is every bit of that. They're they're titans of industry for a reason.

Shane Mercer [00:17:32]:

Yeah. Looking forward to to sort of chatting more about them and more about Bepache. Yeah. Maybe maybe next week, Pais, we can sort of dive into that a little bit more because there is a lot of news that we need to get to stuff that we haven't been able to cover over the last couple of weeks because we've been chatting with those guests and because you've been on the road and sort of all of that sort of stuff. And there's some pretty significant developments to get to. And one of them I know for a fact came up at that bash this topic because I saw it being reported on and they were actually quoting some people that were at that bash, including Billy Walters, who commented on this story. And, I think Spanky commented on it as well while he was at Babash because I saw the reporting, but this is the DraftKings tax. And I think, DraftKings probably hates that term, but that's exactly what it is, and it's exactly what they're doing.

Shane Mercer [00:18:21]:

So if you aren't familiar with this by now, here it is for you. DraftKings announced on August 1st that starting next year, 2025, so January 2025, the sportsbook is going to deduct a 3.2% gaming tax surcharge from winning wagers in 4 states. It's Illinois, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and New York. It says that the taxes on sports betting, you know, have have jumped in all of these states. Illinois, for example, it went from 15% to 40%. We talked about that on a show back when it happened. New York has a tax rate of 51%, and these are all states with tax rates over 20%. So 4 states, they're all over 20%, but Illinois is at 40%.

Shane Mercer [00:19:10]:

New York is at 51%. And so DraftKings is now going to be charging this 3.2% gaming surcharge. And, you know, it's like, well, what exactly does that look like? Well, here, let me show you because, a guy on on Twitter posted this here. So if you can take a look at this, this is just for illustrative purposes only, and I know it might be a little grainy and hard to kinda see here. But so this tax only applies to winning wagers. K? That's it. But if you win on a plus 100 bet, as you can see here, right, $10 plus 100, instead of getting it says payout here $20, but when you come down here, it actually says total payout $19.68. I don't know if you guys can see that but $19.68.

Shane Mercer [00:20:06]:

So you're gonna lose that 3.2% every time you win. And on a $10 bet, you're like, ah, well, whatever. It's 32¢. Who cares? But, PACE, we got a lot of people in our community that are betting a lot more than $10 per wager. You know, they're betting up towards up a1000, 10000. We've got guys on the show like Kenny, you know, who will talk about dropping, you know, 6 figures. And that really adds up over time in terms of this this surcharge that DraftKings is charging. Some of the comments that that came, from BetBash in particular, Billy Walters, basically saying that, hey.

Shane Mercer [00:20:42]:

Stuff like this is what's going to, drive people, into, the gray market or back to the gray market. And, you know, at BetBash, I think you probably were talking to a lot of people who bet pregame. Not as many people that are that are doing it live, like us at inplayLIVE space. And the edges on those pregame wagers, the the winning the guys who are winning are are, you know, they're winning at, like, you know, 55%. That's kind of like their edge. Right? They're getting, like, a a 5% edge, and then you cut in to that 5 percentage by taking another 3.2%. Well, jeez, their their edges are being eroded very, very quickly.

Andrew Pace [00:21:23]:

Yeah. It's not 5%. It's it's literally what the tax is at best. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:21:27]:

So it's, like, literally, you know So They're they're losing it. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:21:31]:

Yeah. There there's 2 sides to this. Right? The first side is the regulatory body, the government side of things, you know, the tax itself. So who is the tax going to? It's not tax. Sounds like it's going to the government. I don't know if they did that intentionally. It's not going to the government.

Shane Mercer [00:21:46]:

Like No. That's that's what's drafted. You should

Andrew Pace [00:21:49]:

have asked. Yeah. It's a DraftKings tax. Like, you know, so there's the regulatory body, like, are what? Like, what's going on here? Like, this doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't DraftKings just adjust their odds lower and have a higher vig and do it that way? Why are they doing it this way? Like, I actually don't understand. It doesn't make sense to me. So there's that side of it. And then the fact that because they're calling this attacks, does the regulatory body get involved and say, hey, guys.

Andrew Pace [00:22:21]:

What what the hell are you doing? Does this get adopted as common practice across multiple sportsbooks now across more states than than what we're currently seeing. Why why do they do that? Like, I don't know. I just I I know there's certain sportsbooks, and since you reference people now going into gray markets and offshore and all that kind of stuff, you're gonna have the ability for them to create the account in a certain category for you. So some of those might be minus 115 lines. Some might be minus 110. Some some might be minus 105. Right? They can do that. So why wouldn't DraftKings just adjust a little bit more vague and not have this big announcement? I I don't know the details of that.

Andrew Pace [00:23:06]:

Go ahead, Shane.

Shane Mercer [00:23:07]:

Yeah. There so, I don't think DraftKings is calling it a tax. I called it a tax. I called it the decay tax. And I think it's being reported like that out there. But I think what DraftKings is calling it is a surcharge. It's a little softer, right, as opposed to a tax. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:23:20]:

So they're calling it a surcharge. And I guess the you know, why yeah. Well, obviously, they're they're doing it to offset the the taxes they need to pay. But, yeah, you're right. Why aren't they just adjusting the odds? I think probably so that they can still make that claim that, you know, hey. We've got great odds over here. You know? And and our our odds look better when you look at them initially. Right? I I I I don't know exactly why I can't speak for them, but but that would be my guess.

Andrew Pace [00:23:45]:

Right. Strange approach to it. Whatever you wanna call it. Surcharge, tax, whatever it is. Strange freaking approach. I would say just adjust your lines a little bit, and I guess you're what you're alluding to then is then they don't look competitive so that people would still place the bet there as opposed to just picking the, you know, the site that has worse odds than them right now. And then there's the side of it to the player, and that's the side that I care about the most. And it's like, well, just, like, don't play there.

Andrew Pace [00:24:15]:

Don't support them. Now if you win over the long term, you might just go, I'm I'm still gonna make money off them. It's just gonna eat into my ROI a little bit. It's still worth it to play with them. That's your decision. Yeah. But if if that's not you or if this is your edge, just just go to the next one and, like, you you know, like you referenced, you know, go offshore. And, you know, this whole ROGA thing is really the grand scheme of what this ROGA thing is, is to control the market and to to hope that regulators completely abolish offshore betting completely.

Andrew Pace [00:24:50]:

That will never happen. People will move countries. People will use VPNs. People will use, devices that are remotely accessed in those areas that they control from elsewhere. People will use these these PPH sites with bookies. The list goes on and on. You will just continue to push people in that direction, if this is the route that you are going to go. And keep in mind, this is pre this is where where you can still limit winners.

Andrew Pace [00:25:21]:

And the whole goal of this whole thing and, again, at BetBash, they had American Bettors voice, there, so got to meet that crew, which is really awesome. They are the ones, one of the groups that is now, you know, fighting fighting for the player, in all of this. But the other side of it is, you know, creating this ROGA thing of responsible gaming, saying offshore betting is illegal and wrong and not safe, and and having that whole narrative and then controlling the entire market, limiting all the sharp players, and then just creating this world that completely caters to to losing players that is, of course, profitable to the the sportsbooks. You know? Like, what a stupid fight to be fighting. Yeah. You know? It's just the opposite of everything moral in this world. So, you know, go have fun, guys. I think that at the end of the day, there's this market and industry is worldwide.

Andrew Pace [00:26:11]:

It's not just the United States. It's not just DraftKings, FanDuel, and MGM, or Caesars, or whatever. It's much, much bigger than that, and there are there are other places to play.

Shane Mercer [00:26:21]:

There are so many other places to play, and and that's a that's a fantastic point. It'll be interesting to see what the backlash is once this actually launches in 2025. You know, because I I think it's the kind of thing where it's like, you know, people might hear about it or see about it and be like, okay. Whatever. But when it actually comes time and, you know, a lot of average bettors are out there and they're looking at it and they're going like, wait a minute. This doesn't quite add up. What's going on here? You know, I think there'll be some some online backlash to it. But I'm glad you brought up the American bettors voices because that allows me to segue into our next topic, which is the Massachusetts Gaming Commission, which is doing that hard work of looking into this whole topic of limiting bettors on the individual level.

Shane Mercer [00:26:58]:

We've covered their meetings in the past, and, they are, working, to try to get the sportsbooks to the table for a roundtable discussion. So, I I know you mentioned American Bettors Voices that was founded by Spanky and I think a few other people that that he's sort of operating this with. And so, they are actually involved with the Massachusetts Gaming Commission as well, or they're trying to get involved, and there's a bit of a conversation taking place there. I'll get to that in a minute. But I first wanna mention that the commission, at this stage is looking to set a date for another roundtable meeting with the operators. And the commission is going to set that date on Thursday of this week, so that would be Thursday 15th, or they may set it on Wednesday 21st, so next week, Wednesday. Either way, they're about to they're they're going to be setting a date for a roundtable discussion where they are once again going to invite all of the operators in the state of Massachusetts to participate in this conversation about limiting bettors at the individual level. The last time they were all invited, they all said they would tend and then they no showed, or they initially showed, but then said, we can't talk about any of that.

Shane Mercer [00:28:12]:

We don't want to talk about any of that. Anyway, commissioners were were quite upset by the whole thing. One of them even saying that, I'm not interested in having another roundtable where the operators come before us and say they can't talk. She was one of the more, outspoken, commissioners, and the chair has said this. He says this is, Jordan Maynard, chair of the, Massachusetts Gaming Commission. He has said, it's hard for me to believe that operators don't have an opinion on this policy decision that we may or may not make. Ultimately, there could be regulations that come out of this. What I would pose to operators in public so this is him speaking to the operators saying, do you want to be part of the conversation that helps develop those, or do you wanna react to whatever comes up? So, they're they're they're gonna be setting a date.

Shane Mercer [00:29:05]:

It's coming up very soon, so we are gonna see some kind of progress on this. It'll be very fascinating to see if the operator show up. The beautiful thing too about this is that they're saying it's going to be public, which means we can all sit at our screens at our desks and watch it live, pace, which I did the last time, that the commission had had the sort of a bigger meeting on the topic, one in which the operators did not show up to accept one sportsbook that wasn't even operating in the state of Massachusetts is totally bizarre. But, another sort of aspect of this roundtable discussion is that the commission has apparently informally reached out to American bettors voices. So so Spanky's Advocacy Association. And, but, apparently, the MGC has not formally asked them to attend the roundtable yet, but they have reached out in this informal way, which is which is great to see. So we might have a voice for bettors there at the roundtable meeting, and it's a big, big question mark as to whether or not the operators will show up. But but it's moving along and and dates are about to be set.

Shane Mercer [00:30:11]:

Pretty exciting stuff, I think.

Andrew Pace [00:30:13]:

Yeah. I, I think that's just all great news. I'm here for it. Let's let's see what comes of it.

Shane Mercer [00:30:18]:

Yeah. Right? There really isn't, you know, some a whole lot we can say about it now. But knowing that those dates are gonna get set and they'll probably be set, you know, if they're if they're gonna set a date, this week, Thursday, or or next week, Wednesday, they tend to sort of set these things about a month later. So it could be the kind of thing where it's like middle of September. Everybody is focused on NFL. Right? Because, I mean, that is the market for sports betting. Everybody's gonna be talking about NFL sports. Sports bettors will be sort of back at it, kind of, you know, living the action, so to speak, and and this will happen smack dab in the middle of that.

Shane Mercer [00:30:52]:

I think that that's pretty cool.

Andrew Pace [00:30:54]:

Yeah. It's, it's the time to to put it on full display. I thought Jack from unabated did an amazing job in the previous one. So, you know, whomever it is representing us, the player, Knock it out of the park. We're here for it.

Shane Mercer [00:31:08]:

Absolutely. Yeah. That'll be, it'll be definitely something to watch, and, you can catch all of the highlights from that meeting whenever it does take place here on behind the lines. We will definitely recap it like we did last time. I had a lot of fun doing that episode, I have to say.

Andrew Pace [00:31:22]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:31:23]:

Okay. Now sort of looping it all back together here. DraftKings has said before, and I've mentioned this numerous times, that if if you know, we just talked about them having to to put out the surcharge in those states where they're paying high taxes. They've also very publicly stated that if they can't limit winners at the individual level, that that could seriously jeopardize their path to long term profitability. And I'm only mentioning that because, also very recently, on July 31st, Betway left the US. It's exited the US market. It was only in 9 states to begin with. Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and, Virginia.

Shane Mercer [00:32:14]:

It has left those 9 states. The CEO of Supergroup, which owns, Betway, Neil, Menashe or Menashe. I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce that, but the CEO of the company that owns Betway said, quote, we have recently concluded an extensive review of our US operations, and at present, we don't see a path to long term profitability for the sportsbook product. So, you know, another one kind of throwing in the towel here, you know, and it's just a sort of another example of of kind of, the gold rush that maybe took place over the last 4 years now kind of starting to fizzle out with a lot of these sportsbook companies, maybe not realizing the potential that they thought was there.

Andrew Pace [00:33:04]:

Yeah. I mean, I have a lot to say about this. So if you guys have used Betway before, they don't have the same lines across all jurisdictions. So my understanding is that, jurisdictions. So my understanding is that they were SB Tech lines, the same lines as DraftKings. DraftKings owns SB Tech, the odds provider that they were using in states like New Jersey. Now I don't know if that was all the states where they were regulated there or not, but, they do have their own lines that they offer elsewhere to places like Ontario and other parts of Canada and, you know, Europe and and beyond. Now this is a company that is on the floorboards at Chase Stadium in San Francisco where the warriors play.

Andrew Pace [00:33:57]:

That's just one example. This is a company that is all over ice rinks across, the NHL.

Shane Mercer [00:34:05]:

I think we're even seeing them in CFL games.

Andrew Pace [00:34:08]:

Yeah. Yep. So they've spent enormous amounts of money marketing across North America. And I can tell you from the standpoint of SB Tech lines, they're beatable lines. Now if you are, you know, a Square bettor, you probably are playing on a few of these major apps. You know, we see the handle, obviously, FanDuel, DraftKings are leading the charge, but maybe Bet 36 5, maybe MGM, maybe Caesars. You're probably not playing it that way. That way is gonna attract the sharper players.

Andrew Pace [00:34:45]:

And if you have SB Tech lines, DraftKings certainly is the better of the 2 products for any real really any any sports bettor. So that puts you in a really difficult spot. You know, spending a shitload of money on one end of things and then, you know, ultimately attracting sharp players as the majority of your players who are coming onto your site. Like, what reason are you giving someone? What competitive advantage are you giving someone to come, you know, use use your site otherwise? That makes things really challenging. Now if it isn't their SB Tech lines, which, if you guys are familiar with that way, even in the United States, even in New Jersey, they switched off of SB Tech very recently. This would have been in the last 6 months to a year, I would say, maybe even sooner. Maybe it was the last 3 months. And maybe that was their last ditch effort to say, you you know what? This whole SP Tech partnership isn't working for us.

Andrew Pace [00:35:40]:

Let's try a go at our, our system or or whomever it is that they're using for those those lines that, you know, I I see here in Vancouver. Well, there's a million reasons to play at Betway with those lines, and every single one of them is the lines that they're offering live because you can just fucking destroy them. Yeah. Like, you can absolutely destroy them. So, you know, their system is shady as fuck. If you don't have your live betting with them and you don't have accept any odds change, not not better odds change, not no odds change. If you don't have accept any odds change on, you are not gonna get many live bets in with them. Now once you turn it on, the bet goes in, and after it goes in, there's about a 5 second spooling process after it accepted where it actually locks in the odds.

Andrew Pace [00:36:34]:

But when you have accept any odds on on most sites, if the line moves from 2a half to 3a half, I'm gonna reference football here because this is extremely important, minus 2a half is quite a bit different than minus 3a half. Just a little. If you don't know why, ask us in the comments, shoot us a DM, whatever. I'm not gonna get into that right now. They will spin you in at a different line. So usually accept any odds is gonna be the odds for the line. So sometimes you do that. You're like, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:37:04]:

I've got over 49a half here. I'm seeing minus 125. I think there's value here. You place the bet. You get spun in at minus 130, minus 140. You're like, fuck. Okay. Well, at least I got the line that I wanted.

Andrew Pace [00:37:15]:

It's not the juice I wanted. And that's a decision that we make as bettors that we all have to make on our own. Well, they would switch that 49a half to potentially, like, 52a half or 54a half, which is just so freaking shady. And I think that that was one of their tactics to try to, create profitability on their platform, and maybe it works in certain areas for them, but net of that. And I do have the accept any odds on when I wager live with them. Net of that, I destroy them. So, you know, they're attracting customers with soft they have really soft lines and they're attracting sharp customers. It's just a recipe for disaster.

Andrew Pace [00:37:53]:

Now it sucks because it continues to put more power and emphasis onto those other sportsbooks that I mentioned, to not have more options, which, again, what is this all Duchene? It pushes people back to the gray areas into the offshores. So, it sucks. They close the United States. I'm happy that I still have them here for the time being. Yeah. That's that's what I have

Shane Mercer [00:38:16]:

to say. Yeah. Yeah. We still got them here in Ontario, though I don't have a Betway at the moment, unfortunately. We crushed that last football season. And, even with the, even with the spooling and the odds changes and everything else, we still hammer them. It's just like, you know, they they can pull out all those tactics, so we just don't crush that. Well, there's a whole bunch of them.

Shane Mercer [00:38:38]:

I don't wanna just single them out. But but that way in particular is why that's just very, very easy to to exploit. Yeah. Yeah. And, Yeah. I mean, no wonder, right, that they're that they're having to leave because like you said, and we've had this conversation a lot about some of these sort of smaller, lesser known books as I like you said, they who goes to them? Only guys like us. Right? Like, our our buddies who aren't, you know, regular professional sports bettors or don't bet on a regular basis. They're all playing on the on those big apps, you know, the DraftKings manuals, etcetera.

Andrew Pace [00:39:07]:

Yeah. And and, like, path to profitability. It's like, did you not consider just maybe, you know, trying to fix some of this stuff? Like, I'm not a software engineer, but I've worked with software engineers, and they're pretty fucking smart guys. We also have AI right now, and it's like, can you guys not just maybe make this a little bit better for you guys? I'm all for you keeping your lines as soft as they are. But where is the ability to adapt where you go path to profitability, spend, spend, spend, market, market, market. Not big enough to be those other guys, the biggest. So what is the solution? You only get the sharp players? Maybe it maybe adjust something.

Shane Mercer [00:39:53]:

Right? Yeah. Maybe cater to those sharp players and maybe think about a a model change. Who knows? I don't know.

Andrew Pace [00:39:58]:

Yeah. Hey. I'm all for them not changing it as long as they're open still.

Shane Mercer [00:40:03]:

Yeah. So, a few shady practices from Betway. But, Pace, you've been dealing with some other, perhaps, even more shady practices and some really sort of strange stuff going on with this sports book, Bet Whale.

Andrew Pace [00:40:18]:

Honestly honestly, the Bet Whale stuff, as shady as it is, it's kind of entertaining for me because I have been able to consistently receive my payments and money from them.

Shane Mercer [00:40:29]:

Great.

Andrew Pace [00:40:29]:

But I think I think when it comes to, like, shadiness, I think more than anything, this is, like, entertainment for me. So Bet Whale is a an offshore sportsbook that's kinda rushed onto the scene, and they kind of don't pay you. Well, I should say didn't pay me because they are paying me pretty consistently now, but they didn't, not don't, until I contacted them enough time. So we're talking about a pending withdrawal that maybe will sit there for 2 weeks where all of a sudden, mentally, you're like, hey. What the hell is going on here? Maybe I should just reach out to them. Do they need something from me that I haven't provided to them yet? You know? And they would say, oh, it'll be, you know, processed in the next 24 hours. And then for me, it's just not high priority. You know? It it it's it's it's not high priority.

Andrew Pace [00:41:21]:

So then I'll I'll, you know, maybe take 3 or 4 days where I contact them again. And then, okay, 24 hours have gone by again. Now I'm on top of you. And it's like, hey. You know, you guys have said you're paying me in the next 24 hours. That was my first kind of experience with them. And, the yeah. Like I said, they end up paying me, which is like that that is, like, in and of itself, like, a huge plus for them given some of the books that I use.

Andrew Pace [00:41:48]:

Yeah. So with with Betway, what's been interesting is they they've, a a sports book that, you know, has has kinda come onto the scene in the offshore world. And, you know, they've taken some pretty big bets for me, live bets that other other sites wouldn't would not have taken. Like, how big? So that's, like, a huge, like, $8,000 Okay. Really significant. Last NFL season on, like, some lines that maybe aren't main market, like, maybe some closer to derivative type

Shane Mercer [00:42:16]:

Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:42:17]:

Lines or, you know, minor markets, however you wanna however you wanna whatever terminology you wanna use. So kinda like sometimes where I'm like, woah. You know, some of the some of these offshores are are offering a 100 for the same line. You know, I'm able to get 8,000 and I'm not gonna complain about that. So, yeah, it's been a great site for me. And I actually gotta toot their horn a little bit. I'm still playing there.

Shane Mercer [00:42:41]:

You're still playing there. So so okay. So we're we're gonna get to the screwing around in the second year, but the fact is is that you're still playing there. So it's not as it's a good there's a lot worse books out there. That's kinda what what we're getting at. But

Andrew Pace [00:42:54]:

Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:42:54]:

But they are doing some some funny things.

Andrew Pace [00:42:57]:

Yeah. So they changed their odds provider, which sucked. I wish they didn't, but they changed their odds provider. And, okay, here we are up and running on these new lines. Let's check it out. Let's see how beatable they are. Well, the limits are much smaller.

Shane Mercer [00:43:12]:

Okay. That's So so they learned a couple lessons. Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:43:16]:

Yep. Number 2, they're making a lot of mistakes, and I mean significant mistakes. Like, lines open, on a pregame line and the game's halfway over. Oh. Lines open. You know, someone scores a a a touchdown in preseason NFL or in CFL or whatever, and lines are still open as if that hadn't happened yet. Not consistently. So it isn't like it's like they are behind.

Andrew Pace [00:43:41]:

Right. You know you know, maybe you're watching a game and the sports book is just way, way behind the action. That's the kind of stuff that happened a lot more frequently in, like, 2014, like, 10 years ago. That is not the case here. It'll just be something happens. And for whatever reason, the lines didn't close on a one off scenario. So in both of those examples that I've given, they didn't settle the wagers. Like, 24 hours go by and they're not settled.

Andrew Pace [00:44:11]:

I'm like, what the hell is going on here? So okay. I'm not a big advocate for going into the chat because if you go into the chat, that means that it might be your account specifically that gets looked at versus knowing that, you know what? Probably someone else is in a similar situation to me on this game, somewhere else in the world. I always say, let them go to the chat. Let them expose their account. And, hopefully, when they change the grading on the wager or they do in fact grade the wager, that that will then be changed, you know, across the board. Spanky was on recently. One of the things that he mentioned was his relationship with FanDuel and that he still had his personal FanDuel because of the fact that he's had a relationship with them. Now I think the advice that I just gave is is very important for most people.

Andrew Pace [00:44:55]:

In my circumstance, I've actually had a little bit of success lately by actually telling people, who I am. Not that I'm some big deal or anything like that. That's not what I'm trying to say. But if you Google me, you know, there have been some features, Washington Post, CNN, Wall Street Journal, etcetera, etcetera. So if you do have some of that public exposure, you know, it's some people will be like, why would you ever do that? Like, aren't they gonna catch on to you and things like that? And I I I think there's two sides to the coin. And the other side is is is how this is was handled.

Shane Mercer [00:45:24]:

They all catch on to you at some point anyway. Like, we can I think we can put that to the side? At some point, they catch on to you and you get limited. It happens.

Andrew Pace [00:45:32]:

Yeah. Yeah. Regard regardless of, you know, whether you whether you're, you know, public facing or not.

Shane Mercer [00:45:37]:

Yea Exactly.

Andrew Pace [00:45:39]:

You know? And and, you know, some people are gonna disagree with that for themselves. Everyone make their own decisions. That's that's not what this is about. So in both of the examples that I just gave, the wagers ended up getting voided and not, graded and returned to me. When that happens to me, it does not bother me because I am a believer in beating books legitimately over the long term, and this is goes against there's a million arguments against what I just said, a million, and I'll agree with pretty much all of them. But I am of the mindset that if we are picking and choosing our battles, not betting on a soft line, but betting, like, past post. Right. Because they left a line hanging and them voiding it.

Andrew Pace [00:46:27]:

That's a practice I've seen happen at Pinnacle even.

Shane Mercer [00:46:29]:

Yeah. Right? Well

Andrew Pace [00:46:30]:

And I'm that's just not a battle that I think is worth fighting in this industry. Are there wagers that I wish? Yeah. Are there wagers that I wish I could void back on the sports book where I were to say, hey. Like, I didn't know this had happened yet or whatever. Sure.

Shane Mercer [00:46:45]:

Or, like, hey. Bad way, I tried to spin it at 49a half and not 52.

Andrew Pace [00:46:50]:

Totally. Totally. So it's a two way street, and it's only moving in one direction. Like, it is it is not a two way street, but it should be. So, you know, put that aside, now the next games roll in where they're with their new odds provider and they are now putting 24 to 48 hours in before settling the wagers, and they are all legitimate. And that's where I'm like, okay, guys. What the hell is going on? They start giving me the runaround on why the wagers aren't settled. You know, please allow this amount of time, blah blah blah blah blah.

Andrew Pace [00:47:24]:

I do the 24 hour thing, wake up the next day. I'm like, okay. These things are still fucking sitting there. They're not settled. And there's also a part of me in these spots where I know people from Imply live have taken those lines that I've called out on a livestream.

Shane Mercer [00:47:37]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Pace [00:47:37]:

So I feel a little bit of responsibility. Like, I need to get these lines paid out. So, interestingly enough, as we I will be wrapping up this recording, I have a a call with Danny Funt in the Washington

Shane Mercer [00:47:51]:

Post Great guy. Great journalist.

Andrew Pace [00:47:53]:

To do a interview about offshore sites. So I went into the chat. I said, this is the interview that I am gonna be holding next week. I said, you guys are gonna be featured in this interview whether you like it or not. I said, do you want this story featured? Are you going to be the people that do not pay their players out in this spot? And I actually listed the wagers they voided. I said, these ones that you have voided make sense to me. I don't agree with it, but they make sense to me. If you put these ones in this category, you guys are taking crossing a line that cannot be crossed in order to have reputable reputability in this industry.

Andrew Pace [00:48:42]:

Shane, they paid out the bets within 5 minutes.

Shane Mercer [00:48:46]:

No way. Just like that. Wow. Done. Wow. That's you know, first of all, it's sad that it had to come to that to get paid. But on the other flip side of it, you know, to your point about sort of being a public person or being out there and will they catch on to you, But then this is the other side of that where you can say, hey. Look.

Shane Mercer [00:49:05]:

I'm gonna be doing this interview, and I've already done these before. You can look me up. You know? And and the proof is there. And then, thankfully, they make the right choice. But I think the fact that they put you through all of that, it's almost like you still failed.

Andrew Pace [00:49:21]:

Yeah. Oh, totally. Totally. And I mean and this is the thing. Right? We're talking about the DraftKings surcharge tax, whatever. And then it's like when you do go offshore and they say, like, this is the only safe place to play or the regulated books pay you within this amount of time, whatever. These practices were existing with the regulated books before they were regulated in the United States. This is the same shit they were all doing.

Andrew Pace [00:49:42]:

It's just when you go outside of it, you have to deal with some of this bullshit. Okay. I'm not done with that whale, Shane.

Shane Mercer [00:49:47]:

We're just we're just getting started. Okay. Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:49:49]:

So that Alright.

Shane Mercer [00:49:50]:

So they paid the line. When they paid the lines, all good. You're still doing the interview. We'll look for that in The Washington Post. That'll be cool. Alright.

Andrew Pace [00:49:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. So, now now we're we're we're into the new odds provider and me going to do a withdraw. So they had been paying me pretty consistently approximately $25100 per week. Their maximum withdraw is $25100. And if you put 2 of them in at once, they only they're only gonna pay the 1, and then you have to enter the next one in the next week. I've been withdrawing $25100 a week from these guys for months, so which is awesome.

Shane Mercer [00:50:24]:

Hey. Awesome. Nice weekly paycheck. $25100 comes rolling in. Alright.

Andrew Pace [00:50:29]:

Yep. So I got the and they they email you when they pay.

Shane Mercer [00:50:35]:

Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:50:35]:

So they say it's it'll happen on, you know, on Monday. Hey, Andrew. We're happy to inform you your such and such withdraw has has been approved. That's been my experience since, you know, it took me a while to get those first couple pays. I had to keep reminding them. So I get the email, withdraw details. Hey, Andrew. This is Jackie, one of the members of the BetWale team.

Andrew Pace [00:50:53]:

We are pleased to inform you that your withdrawal has been approved for $750 and will be sent to Bitcoin Wallet. Expect your money in 24 hours. So when you go to their site, it says max withdraw, 25100. So I didn't ask yet. I didn't say a word to them. I go this is still in the same email. Kindly note that after years of practice that whale's new. After years of practice, we have determining we have determined the following factors that are the most impactful regarding the process of determining the customer's subsequent level, not withdrawal level, subsequent level.

Andrew Pace [00:51:36]:

The first item listed, credit score.

Shane Mercer [00:51:42]:

Credit score. And this is for them to pay you? Usually, a credit score will come up if you're applying for a loan or something like that. Not not when you're trying to get paid by someone. Your credit score. Wouldn't they need your interest? Like, they need some, like, you know, your in Canada, it would be your your SIN number, you know, to get to look up your credit score. What the fuck?

Andrew Pace [00:52:06]:

So this was one of the weirdest curveball statements I have ever been thrown, and I thought about it a little bit more. And I was like, number 1, you do not have my credit score. I know that.

Shane Mercer [00:52:19]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:52:20]:

Number 2, they are throwing that out to the gambling industry as a truism, which means they are hoping that you read that knowing that the gambling industry as a whole has lower credit scores than the rest of the world and thinking, oh, shit. My credit score is 550, so that's why I'm being paid less. Okay. And hoping that the user is is tricked or stumped by that. Now in my shoes, I just got approved for a pretty big mortgage.

Shane Mercer [00:52:50]:

Oh, I'm like

Andrew Pace [00:52:52]:

No. In the last 6 months because we're we're in the market right now. I'm like, well, I know my credit score is, like, really solid. Right? So that is complete bullshit. Deposit type and frequency. So I that was the first thing on the list, Shane. I'm still going here. Deposit type and frequency.

Andrew Pace [00:53:08]:

They pay you out based on your deposit frequency. Okay. Customer's reputation with BetWale as well as other betting sites.

Shane Mercer [00:53:20]:

Oh, wow. What?

Andrew Pace [00:53:25]:

The duration and the outcome of your betting sessions, your wager frequency, the adopted payout methods, the frequency of you reversing your payouts, and your membership duration. Please take into consideration that the customer level also determines multiple factors. Well, didn't she just list them all? Multiple factors including but not limited to the maximum payout amount and payment approval times. Thank you for understanding. Wishing all the best, and have a great one. So, Shane, this email was sent to me, and if anyone wants this content because I know some people, on Twitter asked the last time. This one's me. The other one I referenced previously was someone else.

Andrew Pace [00:54:13]:

This was sent to me on July 26th. I just told you that last week, I dropped that reference to being featured on the Washington Post. Right? This week, they paid me the 25100. Oh,

Shane Mercer [00:54:31]:

okay. So they you got this wow. This is fascinating. Fascinating.

Andrew Pace [00:54:41]:

Can you believe that? Like, I have never in my life like, we could talk about an episode of this podcast for each and every response in that list. Unbelievable. Customer's reputation with Bet Whales as well as with other betting sites. Like, fuck you. Oh my god. What? What? Wow. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:55:05]:

I think it's all bullshit,

Andrew Pace [00:55:06]:

you know, I think it's all bullshit.

Shane Mercer [00:55:07]:

The credit score thing is really, raw. It's because it's exactly that. Because what they're doing is they are banking on you and your pace being a degenerative gambler who, you know, never turns a profit, almost never gets paid, and and doesn't deserve to get paid is basically what they're saying there. It's, oh, no. You you know, you're you're a gambler and you don't make any money, and you, you know, you probably owe a whole bunch of debts and we're not gonna pay you.

Andrew Pace [00:55:38]:

Credit credit scores are for you to be lent money, not for you to receive your own money.

Shane Mercer [00:55:46]:

It's just unbelievable.

Andrew Pace [00:55:50]:

Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, that's my bat whale story.

Shane Mercer [00:55:53]:

Story. Story. The story's still going. Story's unfolding. What's crazy?

Andrew Pace [00:55:57]:

You know what's crazy? Great site. Let it rip.

Shane Mercer [00:56:00]:

Great site. There you go. They they paid me. They paid me.

Andrew Pace [00:56:02]:

They look like they could turn a corner, but they've paid And you're

Shane Mercer [00:56:04]:

still are you and you're still playing on their site?

Andrew Pace [00:56:07]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:56:08]:

It's just crazy. Wow. Wow. What a what a site. But, hey, at least they at least they've gone back to paying you the that $25100 a week. And, you know, I'm sure you'll be making a lot more than that, every time you, log on to their site. So Hopefully. Hopefully.

Shane Mercer [00:56:24]:

Not always.

Andrew Pace [00:56:25]:

Not always.

Shane Mercer [00:56:25]:

Not always. But but, hopefully, yeah, you know, it'll be, wow. You'll be you'll be collecting $25100 from them for a long time.

Andrew Pace [00:56:32]:

Hopefully. Hopefully.

Shane Mercer [00:56:34]:

Wow. Alright. Well, that that's all awesome stuff. Okay. We've got pace, there's just so much more I wanna ask you about. Just keep going. That bash and all of that. No.

Shane Mercer [00:56:42]:

You know what? I I think we do gotta save it, though, because because we're we're we're up against it here, and we wanna keep our shows within a certain amount of time. We don't wanna we don't wanna own our audience's this time for for too long. And they've stuck with us all the way through this episode today. We've covered so much ground. But yeah, I think I think next week I do look forward. First of all, I look forward to seeing the article in The Washington Post. Maybe we can talk a little more about that. But I do wanna dive into some of the stuff that we talked about with some of our guests over the last few weeks because there's a lot of sort of things in there that I think we kind of look at and and maybe sort of dig into a bit, maybe pick apart a little bit.

Shane Mercer [00:57:13]:

And I do wanna ask you more about about sort of some of the things that went on at Bettash in in terms of, what people are doing and sort of where Imply Live fits in, into the ecosystem and and, you know, maybe perhaps where things are are going and that kind of thing. So so maybe we dive into all of that next week. And then, again, we'll continue to keep an eye on the, on the commission as well in Massachusetts and see what, what they decide to do. We should have more information by then. And also next week, actually, 2 PACE, we'll we'll chat. We'll chat, at the beginning of the week. We'll release the episode on Wednesday. But on Wednesday, I will be flying into Vancouver for the IPL retreat.

Shane Mercer [00:57:48]:

This is, IPL retreat number 4, and, very much looking forward to that. Pace, what can I expect very quickly?

Andrew Pace [00:57:58]:

Tons of fun, tons of networking, lots of physical activities, lots of live betting on what we're doing in real time. So we're we're not that big of an event, but, we handicap everything that we do at the live event. And, that goes from poker chips that are like our own inplayLIVE currency for the duration of the event, but also there's, one of our favorite sportsbooks is gonna be their s x bet, who we had on the podcast. They're gonna be handicapping events live, so there'll be exchange events, you know, running there. We're gonna have so, Shane, we're gonna have, one of our pros, we refer to him as the cookie monster. He's gonna be chipping onto a green, which the green will be after our softball tournament ends, so we do a lot of physical events. He's gonna be chipping into a kind of like a fluffed up sandy raked green so the ball sticks

Shane Mercer [00:58:56]:

Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:58:57]:

On there where we'll be live handicapping how many times out of 10, he hits the green, and people will be betting for or against Matt Oh. In that spot while while while enjoying some some food and drinks from, some local Vancouver, restaurants that will be actually coming to the field to, to to cater to us. So it's gonna be a ton of fun. Yeah. Great. I mean, BetBash is very much education oriented. We've got a couple seminars running, but for this, it's more about celebrating the start of our next year or the end of our current one, however you wanna look at it, within Playlive and and some of our top members. So really looking forward to it.

Andrew Pace [00:59:37]:

And, of course, fresh swag. You can see, if you're watching on YouTube today, the the drip is, is is updated. So

Shane Mercer [00:59:44]:

Alright.

Andrew Pace [00:59:45]:

Lots of good

Shane Mercer [00:59:45]:

Looking looking forward to to maybe getting a couple of items to to wear on the show. And, yeah, I think I think I've already got a lean on the cookie monster there, but I'll save that for myself. I'm going to share my secrets. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:59:56]:

You don't. You definitely don't want to be given that out. Don't give away your edge there, Shane. Don't give away your.

Shane Mercer [01:00:01]:

All right. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to chatting with you here on the podcast next week and then, of course, seeing you in person and, to you and to all of our sports betting community around the world tuning in till next week. Keep eating those bucks. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below.

Shane Mercer [01:00:27]:

And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'