Episode 72

Shane Mercer [00:00:00]:

Hey. I gotta ask you, George, because, this this episode is sort of gonna come out the week of this big event. And, I I gotta ask, are you planning on sneaking in Tibet Bash?

George Panagakis [00:00:11]:

Oh, you know my history.

Shane Mercer [00:00:25]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, and follow us on all the socials @ inplayLIVE. On today's show, NFL crystal ball peering with 1 of gambling Twitter's favorite futures predictors. He might have a few betting stories to share too. I'm your host, Shane Mercer, as always joined by Andrew Pace, founder of inplayLIVE, a community of like minded sports bettors dedicated to long term success. And we've got George Riley Panagakis, known as GRP. Welcome to the show, George. How are you doing?

George Panagakis [00:01:03]:

Shane, thanks a lot. And you, you pronounce my name perfectly, and, I'm glad to be here talking with you guys.

Shane Mercer [00:01:08]:

Well, it's not like I was standing in front of the mirror practicing it over and over again right before we recorded here. It's great to have you on the show, buddy. I I love to sort of just kick this off by just asking you, hey. What are you betting on these days?

George Panagakis [00:01:20]:

Well, these days, that's, right now, I've been doing I've been improving my formula for based on point spreads, and we're we're all waiting for football season because I don't bet baseball. I don't you know, I have a saying, show me a show me a baseball player, and I'll show you a guy with a gambling problem because these guys bet every day and they go nuts. So I don't do that. We're all waiting for we're all shaking for football season. And, just, today's Monday. Just literally Saturday Sunday, I put on 3 or 4 more, futures bets for the football season. A couple of them were long shots. If anyone goes to my Twitter account, you can see that's grp wins is my Twitter account.

George Panagakis [00:02:00]:

And, 2 of them were real long shots. All my followers made fun of me. Here we go. Kansas City Chiefs, the last team to win a game, which at the start of the season, which means they have to, like, lose at least the first four. But the first four games are not I'm getting, like, a 165 to 1. These are long shot bets. Buffalo to have the, you know, one of the worst records in the league. Again, long shot bets.

George Panagakis [00:02:23]:

But if Josh Allen gets hurt, you never know. You know? So I guess throw a couple $100, have some fun, and why not?

Shane Mercer [00:02:29]:

Alright. Well, since you brought it up and and we're on it now, I'll I'll pull it up here because I've got I've got your note right here.

George Panagakis [00:02:36]:

Hey, Joe. Look at your new way.

Shane Mercer [00:02:38]:

Ready to go. This is this is what I was I was talking about. I wanted to have this ready to go for the show here because I just saw this, and I'm like, this is this is pretty cool that and you put this out here on Twitter. So, you know, these are are these all of your NFL futures that you have going on so far?

George Panagakis [00:02:52]:

No. I, I literally have 3 pages. Like, you have the last page of my notebook, which I just tweeted out yesterday. I have 3 total pages of tweets I've done during the last 3 or 4 months, and about a third of them are already settled. Like, I had some golf bets, for example, like in the US Open, I won about $1,000. And on this British Open that just ended, I lost a few 100. So for this year, I'm up just a couple few $100, no big deal. But I have about 3 pages of bets similar to what you just showed.

Shane Mercer [00:03:22]:

Yeah. Okay. So 3 pages of these. You got them all written down on on a notebook here. So so, you know, I guess we could go through some of them here, but, this looks like a golf bet off the top here. Matthew, Pavin, top 10. And and I'm guessing you got you got an l minus a 100 here. Does that mean that that you lost on that one minus $100?

George Panagakis [00:03:40]:

Correct. That was, in the open that just ended up 10 days ago. And it's just a weird thing. I I hardly even know the guy, but I bet on him in the US Open about 2 months ago. And I won about $1,000 on him in the US Open. He was, like after round 1, he was, like, in 5th place. He had won a tournament, and he was still, like, you know, 10 to 1 to come in top 10. So I threw a $100 on him, and I won.

Shane Mercer [00:04:05]:

Hey. Awesome. There there you go. Alright. So going through a few more of these here, you've got OKC, over 56 and a half wins, plus plus a 100. So that's a little NBA future bet there?

George Panagakis [00:04:17]:

Correct. Oak and that's a weird one. I almost never kinda listened to other people, but I got that from a tip listening to another network. And I'm like, boy, these guys got sound confident. And then check out OKC. I'm not a big NBA guy, but I know they had a good year last year. They got some young players, and they added a couple of guys. So you know what? I took a shot for a 1,000, and there there's the bet.

George Panagakis [00:04:38]:

It's right there in front of you.

Shane Mercer [00:04:39]:

Right there in front of me. Well, look at look at these other ones here, though, that you you got a few sort of long shot, NFL futures here. So yeah. Last I think you just mentioned this last team to record its first win. So you're taking the, defending Super Bowl champions, the Patrick Mahomes led Kansas City Chiefs to be the last team in the league to record their first win?

George Panagakis [00:05:04]:

That is correct. So right. It's just that is so literally, they have to go at least all in 4. You know? Let's say they go on 4 and another and, you know, no one else goes on 4. I win the bet. But so don't forget, though. They're starting out of 2 home games. They got Baltimore, and then they have Cincinnati.

George Panagakis [00:05:22]:

2 real tough games at home. And then they go on the road against 2 average teams, Atlanta, and, I think it's the LA chargers, I believe. Don't quote me on that one. So the point is they don't have the first four games. They don't have an easy win. And you know what? I'm getting a 100 and what? 165 to 175 to 1. So my dad's cell.

Shane Mercer [00:05:42]:

Yeah. 165 to 1 year, and you got $300 on it.

George Panagakis [00:05:45]:

I got news for you. Crazier things have happened.

Shane Mercer [00:05:50]:

You're absolutely right. Crazy things can happen, and we love to embrace the chaos over at inplayLIVE. So I love that you're kind of just leaning into it here. Here's another big long shot when you took this one on Circa Buffalo with the most regular season losses. $300. 175 to 1.

George Panagakis [00:06:07]:

Right. Bottom line, Josh Allen has to get hurt. You know, I'm not ruined, but he's I I'm a Josh Allen fan, but he gets hurt in the preseason. He gets hurt week 1. I got news for you. Buffalo talent wise, they got some this is not the Buffalo vault. This team has major talent questions. And if Josh Allen got hurt, you know, the team loses their momentum.

George Panagakis [00:06:28]:

Crazier things have happened.

Shane Mercer [00:06:30]:

Yes. Yeah. Hey. Crazy crazy things can happen. And, yeah, the injury bug. I mean, we saw it last season actually with the Buffalo Bills, but it wasn't the Bills who lost their starting quarterback. It was the 1st game of the season playing the Jets, and we saw Aaron Rodgers go down, I think, on the 1st or second play. So, you know, these things these things can definitely happen and do happen on on a regular basis.

Shane Mercer [00:06:49]:

And, hey. What a what a long shot play there. And then I guess we'll we'll sort of cap off your notes here with, just, bad news for Colts fans. It looks like, you are really hating on Anthony Richardson.

George Panagakis [00:07:02]:

Correct. 2 years ago when his last year in Florida, week 1, he had a great game. And then the rest of the season, half his games were average, half his games are below average. How this guy got picked 4th in the draft, I have absolutely no idea. I you know? And and I even better than and I even bet on the draft, and I bet, like, that he would pick over. I actually lost money. I was betting he'd be, like, over 5a half. I have no idea how this guy got picked 4th or 5th in the draft.

George Panagakis [00:07:29]:

And I'm not an Anthony Richardson fan. And, you know, last year, his rookie year, he played, what, 3, 4 games he got hurt. So I'm just not I'm not I'm not in this fan club, and we'll see what happens.

Shane Mercer [00:07:40]:

Alright. Well, hey. There there we go. Okay. Well, I'm glad we were able to get to this, as quickly as we were and and sort of able to get through some of it. But I really wanna ask you about how do you arrive at these calls? Like, what's your process? Walk us through a little bit about kinda how you got to this to to to these to these picks. I know that you sort of give us a bit of background, but, I mean, there must be more that goes into it than you just kind of saying, hey. I don't like this guy.

Shane Mercer [00:08:03]:

He kinda sucks, and I I've watched him play in college, and I don't like him.

George Panagakis [00:08:07]:

Well, you know what? With these futures bets, there there is no quote, unquote secret formula. You gotta go with the eye test. Again, you know, Anthony Richardson, I'm not a big fan. And and, yes, sometimes, I'll I'll be bored at 10 o'clock at night. I'm lying on my bed, and I and I go to you know, there's so many in Illinois, we have, 2 great websites for props. We have DraftKings, and Caesars is actually pretty good too, and so is FanDuel. So I'll literally because I'm an NFL guy, first of all. And I'll literally just go to the website and go through everything they got.

George Panagakis [00:08:38]:

I'll look at everything, and I'm like, okay. You know, you have just like life, you have to have a feel for it. And, that's kind of like how literally, it's how I make my decisions. You you have to have a feel. There is there really is no magic formula.

Shane Mercer [00:08:51]:

Right. Okay. Well, hey. There there you have it, guys. For everybody out there who's who sort of, follows GR p online and grp wins. So you can get you can go check out more of his other, future spicks over there at, at his Twitter account grp wins. Okay. I want to ask you though, a little bit more about, kind of, your betting history and that sort of thing and kinda how you got into this.

Shane Mercer [00:09:11]:

I was telling Pace before we got on the show here just a little bit about you, and I sort of grouped you in with this, old school grouping of bettors like Spanky, Adam Bjorn, Fats. We just recently had all 3 of those guys on the show over the last couple of months or so. But I I and then afterwards, I thought to myself, I'm like, I wonder if he puts himself in that grouping, though. Would you sort of consider yourself sort of part of that that old school sports bettors, group?

George Panagakis [00:09:38]:

Well, those guys you just mentioned, those are those are some great old school sports bettors, and, that that's a compliment to me. Those guys are maybe you know, those guys are more game bettors, and they're one that's above me. I'm maybe half NFL games, and I'm I'm very comfortable in the futures markets. And a lot of people still think it's like it's kind of like a weirdo soccer thing, but, you know, I've hit some long shots. I hit Phil Mickelson at 85 to 1. I had Super Bowl, Kansas City scoring 9 points, hit a 150 to 1. So I'm maybe a little bit of a half and half, and, I'm not afraid to hit a long shot. And now I've got this Twitter.

George Panagakis [00:10:14]:

I kinda entertain people a little bit. So we we we do, you know, we do things a little differently, and, those are a couple those are a few legends you just mentioned there. I'm not I'm not quite in their league.

Shane Mercer [00:10:27]:

Okay. Hey. You you don't you don't think you're all the way up there yet?

George Panagakis [00:10:29]:

Not yet.

Shane Mercer [00:10:30]:

Well, good to know. I mean, you know, pace, those are some legends we had on the show there. You know, this guy bets futures. Pace, you don't bet a lot of futures, do you?

Andrew Pace [00:10:39]:

Yeah. I've always had a real hard time with the concept of my money being tied up for more than 5 minutes. Like, a a full game bet for me is, like, a future. But, hey. I, I I gotta kinda interject on the whole, like, it's all feel thing. You know, you touched on the Buffalo Bills, and and what it would look like if Alan wasn't in the roster. Obviously, it's a it's a it's a you're gonna have some long odds for for what you what you place there, but you know the game, you clearly watch the game. There's analysis happening, you know, instinctually with everything that you're putting pen to paper on and everything that you're putting money down on.

Andrew Pace [00:11:21]:

Otherwise, you wouldn't be successful with this. Right? So your quote, unquote feel is is years years of experience, you know, watching the sport and analyzing schedules and looking at teams. I don't think you're, you know, just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall because if you did, the books would just really love you. So I got I gotta say, like, you you didn't give yourself any credit there. Like, if you are successful at this, you know, there there's a there's there's a lot that's going into some of these long shot wagers. And one of the things that stood out to me with some of those things that you put on the sheet there was that they were, like, remarkably contrarian. Yeah. There's some long shots that, you know, probably won't come through, but you don't need them to come through 1 out of a 100 times.

Andrew Pace [00:12:00]:

You need them to come out, you know, 1 out of a 150 times. And, yeah, just remarkably contrarian. And I would imagine, like, I I actually haven't personally scoped your Twitter the way Shane has there, which I definitely, will after this, this call here. But I would imagine you get some some serious comments under some of these plays. Like, just give me your money. You know, All these guys are betting these overs and Chiefs to win the Super Bowl or, you know, you know, Josh Allen MVP or whatever, which, you know, power to them. The likelihood of that occurring is obviously higher than, than than some of the wagers that you place, but you're, you know, you're really peeing into the wind with some of that stuff, and it's it's cool to see. So I'm I'm I'm glad it's worked for you, and it's definitely like I know we got a couple guys in the group that have done really well with futures.

Andrew Pace [00:12:44]:

I know, Shane, you opened this with asking me about the future stuff, but, you know, we got a guy in our group who's who just absolutely cleaned up in college football futures last year and and did really well in the NBA as well, with some really long shot, wagers there with the analysis that he did. So I'm sure there'll be some guys that will pick up on on your Twitter now and and and ride some of these these long shots, and we'll be cheering them in at the end of the season with you.

George Panagakis [00:13:07]:

Oh, you know what? Thanks for the compliment. Like, again, to validate your point, last season, I had my famous bet. I I bet on Baker Mayfield to be comeback player of the year. You know, that was, like, my famous bet that didn't win. But still, you know, he was 75 to 1. He was the 1st round pick. Tampa Bay, I knew, had 2 good wide receivers on the team. And, so I I threw 20 I I threw 27100 on Baker last year.

George Panagakis [00:13:32]:

And, I I you know, it's it was a 5050 whether or not I win. I would've hit for 200 grand.

Shane Mercer [00:13:37]:

What was it? Flacco?

George Panagakis [00:13:38]:

Flacco ended up winning it, and so many people agreed with me. I got shafted. I mean, the guy had a good month of December. The whole thing was a complete joke. I should've hit with Baker. And, you know, it didn't. But now, here's the other side. You have to be a smart gambler too.

George Panagakis [00:13:52]:

If you look at my tweet literally from 3 hours ago, I sent out a tweet this morning. Don't touch the comeback player of the year this year, because literally, now whether if you didn't see it when when this video is over, you guys could take a look when we're done. There are literally 10 legitimate good choices for comeback player of the year this year. I mean, just quarterbacks? And to think you're gonna pick the 1 of the 10 that's gonna have a good year and no one else is gonna have a great year. This year, it's a brutal year for the comeback player of the year. So, hey, you gotta be, you know, you gotta be smart. I'm just not gonna touch it. Just don't even get involved in it.

George Panagakis [00:14:22]:

And, I tweeted it out 3 hours ago. You you guys can see it when we're done.

Andrew Pace [00:14:26]:

Yeah. That's, I mean, that's a really smart approach. Right? If the, if what you're seeing isn't lining up, we always like to say sometimes the best wager is the one that you didn't make, which kinda you were alluding to there with the baseball season, which, you know, I would I would probably second that opinion as a general statement or at least from my personal bankroll. I would I would probably second that, that notion or decision on on baseball there. But, what a tremendous wager on Baker. You know, obviously, some people are are pro hedging. Did you consider it down the stretch last season?

George Panagakis [00:15:00]:

A 100%. So to start the season, I had Baker. And then it's just after week 1, Tua had a great game with Miami, and then it kinda hit me. Boy, I gotta so I added on Tua at 8 to 1. He didn't win, but still it wasn't a bad bet because 2 has got some talent. And then middle if you remember last year, DeMar Hamlin, the guy kinda died in the field, so he was the sentimental to start the year, you know, he was minus 500 as the favorite. But I don't bet favorites like that. That's not my style because I'm thinking someone else could middle of the year, DeMar Hamlin was basically even money.

George Panagakis [00:15:34]:

I'm talking sometime in November, so I wish I didn't do it. But, yes, I had $3 on DeMar, And I'm thinking, okay. I'm even money, sentimental. I could easily see Demar winning this thing even though you're not he he's played, like, 5 plays. It was a joke. But sentimental, he could've won. So, unfortunately, yes, I I did, hedge, quote, unquote, hedge with Demar, and that cost me money. So I lost 87100 on the year, but, you know, so I lost all my bets because this flack of fluke came in.

George Panagakis [00:16:03]:

And, you know, that's that's the way it goes. That's that's gambling, and I was and you can still make a perfect bet and not win.

Andrew Pace [00:16:10]:

Yeah. I think that's a really good lesson too for any of our viewers there. So you you said you took $2700 on Baker Mayfield. That's 70 to 1. Is that correct?

George Panagakis [00:16:20]:

2700 at 75 to 1. Great. Oh, shit. I literally would've want $200 grand. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:16:27]:

I'm literally I'll make calculator here. So I think that's a really good lesson, guys, for for everyone that's watching this that, isn't a pro sports bettor or isn't a aspiring pro sports bettor. Hedging isn't always risk free. You have to make sure you close all the doors. That goes for middles, hedges, arbs, anything that you're doing, in that department. I personally find in my experience, if I try to design some sort of creative hedge that, you know, has some sort of backdoor that can fuck you, I find the gambling gods find like, they find that door. And obviously, that statistic from a statistical standpoint, what I just said doesn't make a lot of sense. But I think what it is is that if you take a big enough sample size and, you know, you apply, you know, a whole series of different wagers in that, you know, you potentially get ahead on, and then you start looking at different ways to get out of them and and you don't end up, you know, covering the bases, you can end up having a bit of a destructive little run there, like, as, GRP just just alluded to.

Andrew Pace [00:17:32]:

So just always, like and and again, we got a pro veteran with us that just said that that happened to him. Right? So always learn from those types of mistakes because, yeah. I I don't wanna I don't I don't wanna be put in that position, personally. So that that was a great story. And, also, I mean, just just on the sheet there that you posted, we didn't we didn't Shane, we didn't even touch on this. Your tracking system is incredible. You know, you got the pen to paper with felt for the wins or losses. I just absolutely love it.

Andrew Pace [00:18:01]:

Super super old school there, but, remarkably transparent. Like, you're not lying to anyone about anything. You've come on here and and let it rip with some of the the tough beats that you've had, to start here. So, yeah, we appreciate that. I think that that's that's, you know, when you take to social media in particular, obviously, there's some guys that are legit, and that's why you're on the show. But, kudos to you for the transparency.

George Panagakis [00:18:22]:

Hey. Thanks, Pais. It's it's funny. The notebook thing, I mean, it's the simplest thing in the world. You got a notebook. You got a pen. You write it down. And then the next bet, you write after that.

George Panagakis [00:18:31]:

So now it's not like I can just push a computer a button in a computer program and delete what I already did. There's there's a record there just because I have a pen and paper, so every previous bet is locked in. So I can't delete anything. If I make a mistake, if I make an error, everything's there, and it is so effective. And, you know, sure, once a week, I get a tweet. Why don't you get a get a program and, you know, you you look like a moron? No. Guess what? The simplest things in life really work, and and this notebook is really catching on.

Andrew Pace [00:18:58]:

I love it. We actually had some futures bets that came out in August of last year, and then we had a few more that came out in October. And I know we lost a few, but we did really well. And one of the ones that we cleaned up on was Alabama to win the West. I thought they were they were they were extremely scrutinized heading into the season. That's for college football. And then we had the, the Thunder to win the division, and then one that we lost that we came right down to the wire on was, SGA to win the MVP, which was super exciting. So we had some good stuff in futures wise, last year as well.

Andrew Pace [00:19:27]:

And believe it or not, Shane, you you I I know I'm still answering your question. You said thoughts on futures. I am very excited for, Gosu's futures this year, and I think that it will be interesting to compare, you know, the notebook to some of the stuff that Gosu is doing and and see if there's any overlap.

Shane Mercer [00:19:43]:

Yeah. Yeah. Very much looking forward to seeing us fix this year. I I have to admit, I didn't tell any of his futures calls last year. Really just not not my game, in in terms of looking at futures. But after seeing his results, I'm thinking, I might have to I might have to at least take a little poke at some of his futures this year and, you know, come come along for the for the season long ride. It's kind of like, well, why not? Right? Well, I think one of the

Andrew Pace [00:20:07]:

biggest things, like, if you look at college football as an example, George, we haven't talked about whether you're doing some of the college football stuff. But my god, like, the discrepancy from 1 year to the next and what you see from anything from coaching changes to the these players going in the portal, to all the personnel changes, you know, in on the coaching staff. And then, of course, like, the player turnover is just, like, absolutely remarkable. And then now I don't I don't even know if it's this year or not, but now we got the whole Pac 12 entering other divisions. Like, it's absolutely wild. So I have no idea. I haven't even looked at a thing, but I'm sure there's some value out there. I'm certain of it.

George Panagakis [00:20:43]:

Pace, you know what? You're exactly right. I'm a I'm 90% NFL. I've I wish I'd I wish I didn't dabble at all of the college football last year. I probably just lost a couple grand, but stupid me, but that's another story. But to validate your point, the people that really know what they're doing, and now with this football, with these different conferences, you know, there's a couple people that are smarter than the people that work for the sportsbooks. And there's guys that know what they're doing, and I think you're a 100% correct. If there's there's more there's more chances of the books to make a mistake with college football, because there's so many small schools. There's so many thing.

George Panagakis [00:21:17]:

And and it and it is a fact that there's more guys that that that they specialize in that niche, and it's easier to beat than the NFL. But I'm just an NFL guy, and the the advantage of knowing the NFL, I'm not a big bettor. But if you really know it, you can place a big bet on an NFL game.

Shane Mercer [00:21:33]:

Yeah.

George Panagakis [00:21:33]:

Where in college, you know, you do more than $5, you know, they're gonna ask 2 questions. You know, you can go to Vegas on a Sunday morning, and you can bet 25, 50 grand on an NFL game. Sure. They're gonna ask for an ID, but guess what? They're gonna take the bet. So there's pros and cons to both sports. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:21:49]:

I think that's a good point. So you talked to you touched on the NFL futures. You you made mention to the the the spreads model that you were discussing. So do you plan on, you know, wagering quite a quite a bit game to game? Will you be, like, super selective on a Sunday and maybe have 1 or 2 bets in, or do you think it's the kind of thing will you where you'll bet the whole the whole board?

George Panagakis [00:22:11]:

No. Right in the middle. So what happened was correct. I I was always, betting the point spread. And, I first I've been doing that for several decades. But, anyway, I when they changed the law in 2018, I came up with this idea of tweeting all my picks at at kickoff, and I had a good year in 2018, betting the spreads. 2019, I had literally the worst year in my career, and it kind of rattles you. You know, you lose your confidence, and then and then you you wanna change everything and still do all this stuff.

George Panagakis [00:22:40]:

And now I'm back to back to the basics where I just have to have confidence. I'm gonna be picking with a quote, unquote formula. It's 90% formula, not feel on the point spread. I'm thinking 2 to 3 2, 3, 4 games every weekend. Just a 1,000 a week to try and, you know, build my reputation that I can do it. And, we'll the bottom line, we'll we'll see if it works. And, yes, it's more of a formula, not a a feel. And, no, I don't go into details of my formula for obvious reasons.

George Panagakis [00:23:12]:

Because if you told your formula, your formula will never the next time the situation arises, it would be almost worthless.

Shane Mercer [00:23:18]:

Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I can totally respect you not wanting to to share that. That makes a lot of sense and, you know, not nothing nothing wrong with that. I gotta ask you though. You just said, you know, 2019 was your worst year ever.

Shane Mercer [00:23:28]:

It shook your confidence. So talk to us. What does a what does your worst year ever look like? How bad is it? And then how do you bounce back?

George Panagakis [00:23:38]:

Right. Well, it's funny. I know the the record was 27 and 39. So that's, like, a little over 40%. It was just, you know, it just you know, the funny thing is, let's say the greatest handicap in the world, let's say, you can go 6040. You know, I know the average viewer can't comprehend that, but it's almost impossible to go to win over 60%. So just imagine if you took, you know, 6 black cards and 4 red cards and put them in a bag and shuffle them. Well, guess what? You know, over if you pick 50 in a row, you know, and then reshuffle, you can run bad.

George Panagakis [00:24:11]:

You can hit a bunch of forties, and, it's just crazy, and that's how life works. And and then, of course, I got frustrated, and I had thousands of people following me and because I have integrity, so I couldn't I couldn't lie about my record. So I'm like, well, then if if I just have a decent year in 2020, everyone on Twitter is gonna say, okay. Well, now you're now you're even for the last 2 years, and they would have been right. So you gotta change things up a little bit, and, you know, it's it's a it's a tough business, and it happens.

Shane Mercer [00:24:40]:

Well, no. But that that's why I gotta ask, like, how do you respond and bounce back? Because not only did you just have the worst, you know, betting year of your life in 2019, you're out, you know, however much money you lost, that's hard enough to deal with. But on top of it, you're dealing with it publicly. It's out there and everybody can comment on it and and sort of, you know, drag you. And, you know, the the Twitterverse can be a very negative space, social media in general. And so on top of that, you know, you're you're you're dealing with it in this in this public way. So, you know, talk to me about sort of the mental resilience that goes into something like that.

George Panagakis [00:25:14]:

Well, no. You're exactly well, here's the funny thing I did because I realized even if I have a good year now, people are still gonna say, okay. So you're you're you're breakeven for 2 years in a row, and they would have been right. So what I did in 2020 was, and then COVID hit, that screwed everything up. But so what I did was I started I I used my rep good reputation of of having integrity and admitting to a bad year. I started documenting other handicappers, like a sports monitor. So I had 15, 20 people. I made simple rules.

George Panagakis [00:25:44]:

They would tweet their pics on Twitter, and I would just be the middle man that made some real simple rules, and I would document these people results. And out of 15 guys, like, 13 of them, you know, had a losing season because it's so hard to beat it. And then COVID hit. So number 1, I I I changed what I did, and number 2, COVID hit. So everything was kinda like in a lull. Like, picking sports don't even care. Because there there was no home teams. I mean, there were home teams, but there were no home crowds.

George Panagakis [00:26:09]:

So handicapping became a completely different it's like nothing in the old world worked anymore. It was like, you know, the you know, you remember COVID. You know, the world the world changed 3 years ago. You couldn't even own a restaurant. It was a joke. So COVID also kinda, like, reset everything. And then I'd be you know, I did a lot of props, and, I'm gonna this this this year, I'm gonna go back to, I'm still doing my props, and I'm gonna have my portfolio with my props. But I'm also gonna be picking games a little more too.

George Panagakis [00:26:38]:

So COVID kinda did a did a reset also.

Shane Mercer [00:26:41]:

Interesting. So so that sort of helped you kind of pivot what you were doing, reevaluate things. COVID hits, you know, you sort of change your game plan even more, and it sort of just really helped you do a full reset.

George Panagakis [00:26:54]:

Exactly. You gotta you gotta do it.

Shane Mercer [00:26:56]:

Hey. That that's that's great to hear that that you're able to sort of bounce back from that. And I'm assuming you've had some successful years since?

George Panagakis [00:27:03]:

Yeah. The, the the futures props have been decent. I'm not a big bettor. You know, when you bet 20 different props with a 1,000 a prop, you know, it's not, you know, like, 2 years ago when the Bears hit an awful year, I hit them really hard. I I hit, like, $40 that year. That's 2 years ago. Last year, I was I was a very small loser in the year. Had I got a fair result on the comeback player of the year, I would have been a small winner.

George Panagakis [00:27:27]:

And, you know, like, last year, I called the Arizona Cardinals under perfectly. I made made, like, $10, but I also had the Rams under real hard, and I lost, like, $8 on that. I really thought Matthew Stafford was done, but somehow the Rams had a good year. You know, it had. The Rams had a good year last year, and then that cost me money. So, you know, that's the way it goes.

Shane Mercer [00:27:48]:

Way she goes. Absolutely. I gotta ask you, you know, you're you're betting significant amount of money, you know, $1,000. And and for a lot of, a lot of our audience members, a lot of listeners out there, a lot of people on Twitter, you know, per bet. That's a that's a significant amount of money. Not a lot of people are are betting, you know, making wagers in in that sort of range. You know, do you have a day job? Do you have another side hustle? Do you do you do something else, or is betting your full time gig?

George Panagakis [00:28:17]:

It doesn't take a lot of time to do it, but a lot of mental energy. I am lucky that I live a mile away from a casino, which has a poker room, which, poker I don't I know poker was also big in Canada, you know, during the boom 10, 20 years ago. Poker is not easy anymore, but right now, I'm here with my mom. She wants my company. So, there's a lot of things going on, and, you know, it works out life could be worse. Let's put it that way. I'm kind of living for free, so my my expenses are very low. And, my mom needs my company, and there's a poker room a mile away.

George Panagakis [00:28:49]:

And, you know, I used to be in the brokerage business. I used to live in California, and, you know, you just kinda live in the moment and go with what you got.

Shane Mercer [00:28:57]:

Okay. Alright. So, yeah, I know you used to be a broker. You also used to be a window washer. Right? You've had other jobs whilst while betting, but it sounds like now you're sort of poker and sports betting. That's kind of your main sources of income.

George Panagakis [00:29:10]:

Correct. A lot of times neither one is a source of income, but we hope it is.

Shane Mercer [00:29:17]:

Ain't that the truth? Hey. I guess so, you know, when you're betting futures and you're focusing on on, you know, sports betting, you're betting a lot of futures and maybe you're doing some pregame stuff. Do you have issues with books? Like and when I talk about issues, I'm I'm specifically sort of referencing limiting and and keeping books open. Is this a problem for you, or is it because of what you're betting on that you tend to get a long leash?

George Panagakis [00:29:37]:

No. That's a great question because there's also a randomness of, you know, you you place bets on certain people, and you'll place certain bets on certain sportsbooks. So for example, 2 years ago, because I'm in Chicago, the sportsbook here, Rivers Can Be, they gave a lot of Chicago Bears different kind of bets, and I just knew these Bears had no talent at all 2 years ago. So I'd go to the sportsbook, anytime I had a winning day, I would spend another 500. Any any kind of weird prop that they offered on betting against the Bears, whether it just be under 7, under 6a half, they had these bands, which means the Bears had to win 3, 4, or 5 games, and you would win the bet. Okay. They had, I bet a thousand. The Bears would have the worst defense in the league.

George Panagakis [00:30:25]:

It paid 25, 25,000. The Bears gave up the most points in the league. This was 2022. So all these winning bets were placed at my local bet with Rivers Cambie. So now I'm kind of a marked man there. So for example, in the Super Bowl 5 months ago, they had a real simple bet. Brock Purdy, first pass would be an interception, 40 to 1. I don't think that's the bad bet.

George Panagakis [00:30:48]:

He's a rookie quarterback. His he's gonna be a little little shaky. So I wanted to bet a $100 on Brock Purdy getting 40 to 1 that his first pass is an interception. They limited me I mean, to some weird amount, it which involved pennies, like 32.56. I'm not kidding you. I tried to make a

Shane Mercer [00:31:06]:

Too wild.

George Panagakis [00:31:07]:

Literally, involved because at this book, the randomness, you know, they think I'm the sharpest guy in the world. And that's just how now, for example, had I hit my, Baker Mayfield bet this this past season, I would have taken DraftKings. I I had mostly I would have taken DraftKings for about a 160,000, and I would have taken Rivers Canby for about 40,000. And everyone tells me, had I hit my bet, DraftKings would have put the brakes on me real hard for hitting for fitting in for a $160. So DraftKings, you know, they they, you know, they think I'm a dummy because I I put some long shots with them. But there's a randomness to the luck of which bets hit and which bets don't. So Rivers can be. They think I'm the sharpest guy in the world.

Shane Mercer [00:31:50]:

So so they think you're super sharp, but and and now you're fully limited there. Will they take any of your action or or you know, and this is an in person casino. Right?

George Panagakis [00:31:59]:

Yeah. No. Yeah. Every this is when I for whatever reason, when I bet there, because it's a mile from when I bet there, I just drive there and play place the bet, you know, in person. Correct? I'm sure they would take an NFL game no quick, and it's a weird thing. I can go there and, like, place a $3,000 bet, and they'll take it. And I place a $100 bet, and they won't. It depends, like, who who's who's running the, the risk room.

George Panagakis [00:32:21]:

There's there's a lot of variables on how they have you, Mark. The people that work there, they recognize me, and I think they call their friends if they make a bet. They think I'm some kind of sharp guy, and, you know, because you're dealing with human beings. And when I place a bet at Caesars, I have to drive there 40 minutes away. A couple guys that work there really like me, and they really love my, my Twitter account, and these guys think I'm sharp. And because I hit them for the under with the Cardinals last year, so every bet just there there's a there's a rant there's there's a luck randomness to which bets you place that win and which one that lose, and they think of you differently.

Shane Mercer [00:32:54]:

It sounds like you're doing a lot of in person betting. You're going to casinos. You just mentioned driving 40 minutes to to a Caesars. You've got this this, Rivers, Cambi, book that that's a that's a casino. Do you have a lot of, online sportsbooks, and and are you using them?

George Panagakis [00:33:11]:

Oh, yeah. 100%. I have, online, I have Caesars. I have FanDuel. I have DraftKings, and I have, Circa. And for whatever reason, the closest book to me, this Rivers Canby, which also does have online, I just haven't opened up a quote online. I just do everything there in person. So, yeah, for betting the game, I'll I'll go to these 4 books, and I'll say, who's got the best line, and then and they'll get my $1,000 bet.

George Panagakis [00:33:37]:

Of course, you know, you always look for the best line. Okay. And, it's just an aberration. I just deal in person with Rivers Canby, and, you know, everyone's got those aberrations in life. You know, why you do one with other, why you do one with and that and, actually, the other 4, it's funny. The distance wise, for the other 4 to drive there, they're all basically exactly 30 to 40 minutes away from my house. And the one I do in person, it's literally a mile from my house. So that's an issue also.

Shane Mercer [00:34:01]:

Right. Sure. Just simple simple distance. That's that's interesting, though, to hear that you already only have, like, you know, for for online books, you you you've got you've got sort of 3 soft books and one sharp book.

George Panagakis [00:34:14]:

Yeah. That's well, at least at least in Illinois, we have, choices. There's certain like, if I lived in, Wisconsin, a mile north of here, I think they got, like, 1 Indian Casino. They haven't. Every state is different. They haven't opened it up yet. Some states don't have any, and, at least Illinois has you know, there's a handful of options. So and, you know, certain books are really good with props, certain books aren't, and, it's, you know, it's I mean, the props that DraftKings offers, it's I mean, there's there's hundreds of them.

George Panagakis [00:34:41]:

It's absolutely it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal if you ask me. And of and on that note, FanDuel, they had all these crazy props in the Super Bowl. Like, this is before the NFC championship game. So for example, Sam Laporta to be Super Bowl MVP. So first of all, they had to beat the niners, and then he was, like, 300 to 1. And I thought he was a pretty good player, so I I threw a $100 on him.

George Panagakis [00:35:06]:

To win 30 grand. I thought I thought too too. Yeah. But, unfortunately, the the, you know, Detroit lost a tough game in the Tennessee champ, but I thought 301 was a fair bet.

Shane Mercer [00:35:18]:

That's a that's a big long shot. And, hey, they get there and and he has a big game, then it's very possible. About 300 to 1, I mean, hey, take take your shot, I guess. Right?

George Panagakis [00:35:26]:

Exactly.

Shane Mercer [00:35:28]:

Okay. I gotta ask you, George, because, this this episode is sort of gonna come out the week of this big event. And, I I gotta ask, are you planning on sneaking in Tibet Bash?

George Panagakis [00:35:41]:

Oh, you know my history. Yes. Well, that's a good one. No. First of all, I'm gonna be there, and I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a a paid legal entry this year. I've already paid. I've already got my plane ticket, and it's I'm leaving, a week from Wednesday. I'm leaving I'm I'm gonna arrive first thing in the morning, then the day after the opening, whatever it is.

George Panagakis [00:36:02]:

Correct. So just to clarify to clarify the story and your point, 2 years ago, I don't know why I I went to Bet Bash, and I tried to sneak in. And, yes, I did sneak in, and me this this is a great story. For whatever reason, me and Real Fast had this he was like, anything I did on Twitter, he just he'd loved to to respond to anything I did, so I sneak in. I'm there for literally a half an hour. I'm listening to one of the seminars. It was nice. It was a nice seminar.

George Panagakis [00:36:32]:

And, I was right in the middle in the back was was, Spanky and Real Fast. They're good friends. They're good people. And then number 1, I went to BetBash 1. I flew into to New Jersey for BetBash 1 the year before 3 years ago. So this is Bet Batch 2. For whatever reason, I don't wanna pay for it, yada yada yada. So I go there, and I, obviously, I flew into Vegas, and I want I played some poke, and I and I snuck in.

George Panagakis [00:36:54]:

I'm watching for about a half an hour, and then I had to rub it into spanky that I I'm sorry, to RealFats that I snuck in. So I send RealFats a DM. Hey, RealFats, you know, something like, you got a great seat. I can see you. Boy, you got really lucky. I'm over on your left. And the guy, you know, he went he just almost cracked his neck. He was he's because I I told him I'm gonna sneak in.

George Panagakis [00:37:17]:

I'm not gonna pay for it. And he got so mad, and he's got one of those little scooters, and he's he's driving around looking for him, and he finally saw me. And I kinda snuck out the back door, and he called security. And, they didn't officially walk me out, but let me let me put it this way. Security was on my tail, and this was at this was at the d Casino, which is the sister property of CIRCA. And I just escorted myself out of that casino of that yes. And that's that is the true story, and, I took a picture of the chili dogs before I left. And and and let me put I gave a little constructive criticism with the meal of the only choice being chili dogs.

George Panagakis [00:37:59]:

But guess what? Spanky, they all agreed with me. They only had one choice of of food, which is chili dogs. And luckily, I could eat chili dogs, but, you know, there's vegetarians. Someone someone wants and they're right. They they want other things besides chili dogs. So, I I send a couple pictures of the food, and I gave some constructive criticism. And, bygones are bygones. We're we we just, we we left it.

George Panagakis [00:38:20]:

Let it go. And this year, I'm a paid entry at Bet Besh 4.

Shane Mercer [00:38:24]:

Wow. They they let you back in and you got back in, back in their good graces. I gotta ask, you know, how did you do

George Panagakis [00:38:31]:

it? Correct. Well, you know, it I I did what I did. You know what? That you know we all got a little publicity out of the whole thing and you know Derek knows me. Derek, you know Derek's a great man and Jeffrey Benson loves me and you know I would I just some silly stupid, but hey holding grudges, nobody wins on that. You know, they want my business. They want my publicity, and, I think, you know, I don't hold any I think circus is great. And, you know, it happens. I did something stupid.

George Panagakis [00:39:02]:

That was 2 years ago, and, again, holding a grudge, no one wins holding grudges. So you just have to move on. Right. I did something wrong. And the year before, I literally flew out to New Jersey for BudBash 1. It was, like, $95. It was the cocktail party. We had a good time.

Shane Mercer [00:39:17]:

Hey. You know, we we all do stupid things every every once in a while, and, I'm glad to hear that you're back in the good graces, that you're back and going and attending again this year. You might get a chance to meet PACE in person. PACE, are you planning to do anything stupid while you're at BetBash?

Andrew Pace [00:39:32]:

We are BetBash sponsors, and, I'm glad they let you back in because, we wanna stay at their good books as well. So, yeah, looking forward to, I'd love to be privy to, a handshake between, the 3 of you guys and, see if we can't, I don't know, get an inplayLIVE cape on you at the pool in the Speedo as well. So we already got Spanky signed up for that, and, I'd love to do the same with you.

George Panagakis [00:40:00]:

No Speedo for me, though, but, it would be great if we get a picture of the 3 of us. That'd be really good.

Andrew Pace [00:40:05]:

Right on. Right on. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Should be a great event.

George Panagakis [00:40:09]:

Oh, no. People have you been before pace or no?

Andrew Pace [00:40:12]:

No. No. This will be my first time. I I've I don't know if I've said this on this podcast before, but I've I've said it quite a few times. With inplayLIVE, we almost viewed, like, betting conferences as, like, a bunch of sportsbooks coming together to, like, collude against us. And BetBash is literally the total opposite of that. So, it took us a while to figure out that that's what it was, but we're just yeah. So now now we're ready to rumble, so it should be fun.

George Panagakis [00:40:38]:

My last live bet was the Super Bowl. Forty niners look really good. I mean, coming out in the game, I bet I bet the 40 niners live, like, in the middle of Q1, and that cost me 500. But, you know, I do dabble once in a moon in a live bet, but that's, like, that's not my niche thing. But it's fun, though, once in a while.

Andrew Pace [00:40:56]:

Well, I mean, it it really like, so I think the first thing with live betting, you know, obviously speaking to anyone that that's involved in this whole futures thing or or people that are kind of a little bit more focused on pregame. You know, you you said this right off the bat. You're like, hey. You know, that's a whole other ballgame and it is. But for people that are really focused on the pregame stuff, I would say you realize your edge is quicker. It isn't that the edges are bigger. It's that you realize them quicker. And you know, you might find a really good, opportunity, you know, on a Sunday slate, like you alluded to, maybe 2 to 4 games in a day.

Andrew Pace [00:41:30]:

Well, if you take those 2 to 4 games, we might be able to place potentially 12 to 20 wagers on that one game. So I I just find that with, with the live stuff, it isn't that you're making more money per wager. You can, but it isn't necessarily the case. It's just more that the volume is so much higher that, you know, you're not waiting a season to find out if if Baker's coming through for you or not. You know, you're finding out really, really quickly. And what's nice about that is if you are taking some longer odds, you you are gonna realize the profits a little bit more common. Like, if there's theoretical value on the lottery to be won, by one of us today, you know, we could spend all 3 of our lifetime lifetimes combined buying tickets every single day where the value is never realized. Whereas, one of one of these things with these live opportunities is maybe you get some long shot, you know, comeback scenario.

Andrew Pace [00:42:22]:

I can actually remember last year. Shane. I don't know if you remember this one, but we had the lions, to come back. I think they're down. I wanna say they were down 16, but it may have been 50. Yeah. Something like that. And good old Dan gamble went for 2 on the 1st TD.

Andrew Pace [00:42:34]:

And it, it it's like, it's a really good example because obviously when something comes through, you'd be like, oh, you know, it's because these don't come through all the time. But I think we've got the lines at like 8 to 1 down. It was, they were down 6 or 7 with, like, 2:30 left and 2 timeouts. And they had just stormed back from, like, down 22. And I think they I think he went for 2 on both of his TDs, and we needed a touchdown to win. And it's 3 and out, got the ball back, ran down the field. Yeah. We got we got something like 8 point o, like, plus 700 on on that one particular game.

Andrew Pace [00:43:07]:

And the thing is is you you might go 2, 3 weeks where you have a similar situation, and and and, you know, you end up missing the next few, obviously. But you're just gonna get more of those opportunities, come coming through on a more regular basis, live betting, in my opinion, and at least in in my experience. So that that's kinda where I lean lean to that stuff. But I think Shane and I both kinda said as well, we you know, we're definitely interested in touching in on these futures a little bit more this year and and seeing how it goes. Shane, I think having a bit of a bigger bankroll helps too.

Andrew Pace [00:43:38]:

If you have a $5,000 bankroll and you're like, hey. You know, I'm gonna be tying up, you know, $500 or $250 or whatever it is for, you know, the next 4 to 6 months. Sometimes that can be a little bit like, really? Is that is that really how I wanna be spending this chunk of money right now? Whereas, if you do have a little bit extra cash, it's it's almost a little bit more of, like, a long term invest or short term investment, I should say. But, it's it's almost looking at it just a little bit differently. And then, you know, you get towards, you know, November where some of these regulars regular season college football, futures start coming in. And, yeah. I mean, that would be that it would be nice to hit some of those some of those bets this year. So I'll definitely take a look at at those and and get excited for them here in the next couple of weeks.

Andrew Pace [00:44:20]:

Mind you, Shane, when this is coming out, we're probably looking at them all.

Shane Mercer [00:44:22]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we'll probably yeah. I mean, John John will probably have them out kind of, mid August at the latest, I think. And, yeah, you're absolutely right. Having a little bit more money in that bankroll definitely makes it a little easier to to say, okay. I'll throw somebody out here and and invest it for, you know, the next 6 months of the of of a full season or something like that. And, yeah, it it does feel like a very long term investment when you get so used to to betting live and and our bets win and lose within a 5 to 10 minute period.

Shane Mercer [00:44:46]:

You know? So yeah. Yeah. 6 months feels like forever, but but I'm very happy and excited to to dabble in that a little bit more this year. And, George, if you're looking, you know, to to, do a little bit more live betting, you can hook up with Pace in Vegas, and he can sort of give you a full rundown on on what it is we do.

George Panagakis [00:45:05]:

You know, I definitely will. And, I'm sure there are certain books that are better or more favorable at live betting than than other, you know, because you you need a yes or no right away. I don't wanna I don't wanna look at the things spinning around. So that's the other thing. You know, you gotta deal with the good books, and you gotta you gotta know what your niches are and see what's going on.

Shane Mercer [00:45:22]:

Yeah. We we've got book problems when we're live betting, needless to say. We we have a lot of problems with in terms of books and spinners and all that sort of stuff that we have to constantly navigate and getting more books and more books and more books. It's a it's a whole thing, but, hey, we make money doing

George Panagakis [00:45:36]:

it. Right. Well, someone told me it's just true or not. Like, literally, like, at a baseball game, there there's, like, a company. There there there's one guy that's actually at the baseball game that updates, like, after every pitch. So these companies know, like, that are accepting the best. They know exactly what's going on because there's people at these like, I'm singing golf tournaments. What's the delay? Someone told me there's, like, a couple people at a golf tournament that will update to the to the sports pitch.

George Panagakis [00:46:00]:

They know exactly after someone shoots you know, hits the ball, Which I find just amazing. I I can't I can't believe it's that specific.

Shane Mercer [00:46:07]:

Oh, yeah. They got they know they they update everything, and it's almost in real time. They're they're faster than our broadcast. That's for sure. By by a long shot, and, you know, that that's part of the game that that Pace and I play is is keeping up keeping up with the live game and and making sure that that we're getting the information at almost the same time as the book.

George Panagakis [00:46:27]:

Crazy. I mean, it's just, you know, who knows how much money these sportsbooks are making? I mean, they pay money they pay 1,000,000 for the, license and, you know, who really knows how much money is being made? And, the whole the whole sub is just absolutely you know, you can talk about it for hours.

Shane Mercer [00:46:44]:

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Well, we don't have hours. So, George, I'm gonna thank you for coming on the show. People can find you at, g p r wins on Twitter. Is

George Panagakis [00:46:56]:

g r p wins.

Shane Mercer [00:46:57]:

Sir. G r p wins on Twitter. Is there anywhere else that that people can follow you, connect with you, hook up with you?

George Panagakis [00:47:05]:

No. That's, that yeah. I used to have a website. I just that's a long story to buy now. But that's it. George Riley Panagakis wins. GRP wins. That's my Twitter account.

George Panagakis [00:47:16]:

Riley is a nickname I got at a poker table 15 years ago, and it stuck with me. And, that's another that's another interesting story. But, anyway, yes. So that's my handle on Twitter, GRP wins.

Shane Mercer [00:47:29]:

Awesome. Alright. Well, stories for another time, and we would love to have you back on the show where you can share those, those those stories. So, GRP wins on Twitter, GRP, pace, and all of the sports bettors around the world till next week. Keep beating those books. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts.

Shane Mercer [00:47:54]:

Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.