Episode 75

Shane Mercer [00:00:00]:

So I tracked all of my, all of my IPL retreat wagers.

Andrew Pace [00:00:04]:

Oh, no. You didn't.

Shane Mercer [00:00:05]:

Yeah. No. I did. I did. I tracked all of my IPL retreat wagers. I made 9 wagers at the IPL retreat on s x bet. I, went, 5 wins, 3 losses, one void, and I profited $104.70. Unbelievable.

Shane Mercer [00:00:21]:

Yeah. Alright. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, follow us on all the socials at inplayLIVE. I'm your host, Shane Mercer, that guy over there, the founder of inplayLIVE, Andrew Pace. inplayLIVE is a community of like minded sports bettors dedicated to long term success. In pace, we kind of celebrated that success over the weekend, a little bit last week with the annual 4th annual IPL retreat. We'll get to more of that in a moment because there's a couple of stories I wanna get to first, but I I just gotta say it was an awesome event.

Shane Mercer [00:01:10]:

A big thank you to you, Rodge, Sabrina, everybody at inplayLIVE who puts it on. It's a ton of work, but, man, it is such an awesome opportunity to connect with other members of the community, enjoy some laughs, some drinks, some food, and play some sports, which I have to admit I am still recovering from. My it took it took a serious toll on my body.

Andrew Pace [00:01:31]:

Yeah. I think a lot of people that bet on sports played sports at one point in their life.

Shane Mercer [00:01:37]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:01:38]:

And when you try to dial the clock back a little bit, it can, you feel it. It's actually really funny too, Shane. So I was, I always, like, I do the whole Apple Watch thing, right, where you're tracking your steps and all that kind of stuff. So let me see if I can bring up the graph here. So, this was the Friday, which is 21,000 steps

Shane Mercer [00:02:01]:

Sounds about right.

Andrew Pace [00:02:02]:

Which is the the softball tournament and also, like, dancing at mansion.

Shane Mercer [00:02:06]:

Yeah. Right?

Andrew Pace [00:02:09]:

And then this is Saturday streaming afterwards. Literally 10% of the steps taken. But, yeah, I mean, it was it was a few big days of sports and friends and learning and, you know, drinks and good food and all that stuff. Yeah. Awesome to have everyone out.

Shane Mercer [00:02:28]:

Yeah. It was it was a great time, but absolutely still still feeling the effects of that, especially the the softball, man. I didn't expect you know, like, we played we played basketball the day before on the Thursday. And, you know, whenever I play ball for a couple of hours, I always feel it through my body. And I I sort of had that normal post basketball feeling where it's the, like, yes. I'm sore on my lower back. My legs are sore. My shoulders my whole body's sore for, like, you know, a good 24 hour period or so.

Shane Mercer [00:02:54]:

But, like, here we are. It it's almost, like, 3 days later since softball, and I'm still feeling the softball, which I'm kind of surprised by.

Andrew Pace [00:03:04]:

Yeah. So I think, like, the if you don't play softball, and people always say, like, baseball is not, like, a real exercise or whatever, there's a lot of, like, resting and then a lot of sprinting. Yeah. So you might not and and also, I mean, we're not if if you play baseball, you're supposed to be throwing balls in between every inning to keep your arm warm. All of a sudden, you might not have gotten a ball for an hour, and then you gotta rifle 1 into someone there. You know? So, yeah, you you definitely feel it. They definitely feel it. And I think, Shane, you relative to some of the other people that we saw playing there.

Andrew Pace [00:03:43]:

I think you're in better shape than a lot of people that were out playing. So, you know, I think Rick said his goal was to not get injured this year, and it was like the my first at bat. And I I hit the ball directly back at the poor guy. Just fucking smoked him at, pitching there. Yeah. But, yeah, I I I think there's multiple people, that are in your shoes or worse.

Shane Mercer [00:04:03]:

Oh, man. There there has to be. I I hope I hope I'm not the only one feeling this way because I like like you said there, I I feel like I'm not out of shape. But then after that, I was like, dude, I I I guess I gotta work harder on a regular basis to to be ready to play these things.

Andrew Pace [00:04:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, the peep people from last year practiced Cornhole and joined leagues for this year. There's only 2 of them that did that, but 2 people did that. Right? So, like, people do take it seriously, and they want they want to perform when they come to the event. And, you know, then you get that whole mixed bag of people that haven't moved in a year. Right? So I'll put myself somewhere in between.

Shane Mercer [00:04:44]:

Alright. Well, we'll talk a little bit more about the event in a little bit. But, first, your pace, I wanna get to to, some news because, you know, I love to get to get to news. I like to I like to get my vegetables out of the way before I eat the main course, so to speak. You know? Before I get into the meat and potatoes, I like to I like to chew on the vegetables a bit. And and we do have some some really interesting news here, and there's 2 studies that that I wanna look at. And I don't wanna look at them in isolation. I wanna look at them together, because I think that there's there's a real interesting contrast going on here.

Shane Mercer [00:05:16]:

So we'll start with this with this first one. And, you know, I I I've heard I heard some feedback from people at the retreat that sometimes maybe, you know, I'm a little too serious on the podcast, and I talk about serious things here. But I I I like that I do that in some ways, you know, because there is a serious side to this. And, when we cover when we talk about sports betting and we're covering the sports betting news, there there's is a real serious element to it, and and we're seeing it, play out. And so this this latest study and this this came from, NBC News. They they're they were reporting on the study. But their headline, their big takeaway from it was sports gambling takes a toll on Americans checkbooks research shows. So so that's this, this study here.

Shane Mercer [00:05:58]:

It's actually 2 studies quantifying the effect of legalized sports betting on investments and savings. So 2 separate papers released this month. Academics found that households and states where gambling was legalized saw significantly reduced savings as well as lower investments and assets like stocks. States that legalized sports betting saw their residents' credit scores, decreased, bankruptcies increased. The authors estimate total monthly wagers, across all of, all states in America where where betting's legalized. They saw, wagers have climbed on average from 1,100,000,000 per month in 2019 to 14,000,000,000 in in January 2024. So it's, it it's a pretty, massive, increase in the amount of wagers. And with that, we're seeing credit scores fall, bankruptcies increase, people's, people taking money out of their savings and out of their stock portfolios to to to place wagers.

Shane Mercer [00:07:06]:

Here on the Canadian side of the border, the same, research was analyzed by a guy named, Preet Banerjee, who's a financial adviser. He's a really well known financial adviser, especially in in Canadian media. He's quoted often in in in the various papers and on, on on TV news shows and that kind of thing. He authored an op ed in the Globe and Mail. The title of his op ed, the expansion of sports gambling means Canadians will be betting away their shot at building wealth. So, before I get to the next one, Pase, any any thoughts, any reactions to to to this study?

Andrew Pace [00:07:41]:

Yeah. Tons. I mean, the first would be, like, that's kinda why we exist. Right? Because the like, people are gonna do this, and they're gonna do it anyway. That's that's certainly one angle that you can you can kinda fall back on. Like, the it's happening, and it's legalized, and it's you know? So, you know, give people the tools to actually hopefully lose less or or even win some money, and the education surrounding that. It's precisely why inplayLIVE has has sliced off, you know, a tiny little piece of the betting pie, in the grand scheme of the sports bettors that are out there, because there is a a better or more effective way to do things than, you know, this lost savings and losing money and all that kind of thing. So that would be the first thing I'd say.

Andrew Pace [00:08:21]:

The second thing is, like, the rationale for legalizing betting, you know, is one where you go, hey. $400,000,000,000 was wagered in 2018 in the United States legally. You know, why don't we just legalize this? It's happening anyway. Right? Kinda what I just said, but from the standpoint of, like, now we're gonna get taxed, and now we're gonna have new revenue streams and all that kind all that kind of stuff. So that isn't what happened because those offshore sites that people were betting $400,000,000,000 on illegally illegally. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:08:57]:

Mhmm.

Andrew Pace [00:08:59]:

None of them are legalized. So they introduced all these new companies. New companies emerged. Right? Like, DraftKings didn't exist, you know, as a sports betting company. FanDuel didn't exist as a sports betting company. You know, the list goes on and on there. ESPN, BetFanatics, Sports Illustrated. Right? So all these major companies decided to say, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:09:20]:

We we want a piece of the pie. And, obviously, that leads to a lot of the things we've talked about on the podcast, the celebrity endorsements and the celebrities getting involved and the advertising being rammed down our faces and the free bets, and the bonuses, and how it all works to get you looped in. And, the long story short of it is is that you're gonna have a small percentage of people that are able to do it successfully. Those sportsbooks are gonna continue to work to get rid of those, those players off of their sites, and you're left with, these losing players. And when you're left with these losing players, I mean, you think it's gonna have a positive impact on their finances? Like so this is where the responsible gaming thing really comes in. And, like, I actually put myself in my shoes of, like, my early, early days of betting where, you know, separately of betting. You know, I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and if rent's coming out of my account, there might be a dollar left over where you're waiting till Friday or you're waiting to go get some tips bartending or whatever the case may be that night to be be able to even pay pay for something. Right? But, you know, maybe it's payday, and you're like, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:10:18]:

I can deposit. I can deposit. Right? You get excited. Like, I get to make my parlay.

Shane Mercer [00:10:23]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:10:24]:

NFL Sunday. Let's fucking go. Right? Right. It's awesome. Right? And that's the thing. It is entertaining. And, you know, your parlay loses, and you still want that thrill. You still want that rush.

Andrew Pace [00:10:36]:

So maybe your budget was $50 that week. And, before you know it, you might be placing a a $50 bet pretty quickly again. And then, you know, when that one loses, you can start to make some pretty poor decisions, like, as you alluded to, like, no savings or bad credit, meaning that you're spending your debt and not paying it back. Or, you're spending your access to money and not paying it back. I mean, it's no surprise at all. And it's it's kind of the bed that was made. And I I it's it's tricky because these are consenting adults that are engaging in the behavior that's that's causing the problem. Right? So, I think awareness and education are are so huge.

Andrew Pace [00:11:16]:

They're so, so huge. And I'll I'll give you a really good example. I've been playing a lot of pickleball. Right? And, I go to the same courts pretty much every every time that I go and play. Sorry, tennis fans that hate the whole pickleball craze. But for me, the torn meniscus and all the things you just alluded to about your ability to move at the event, when I could play doubles pickleball and not need to worry too much about mobility, and, actually, I get an amazing exercise from it. It gets my competitive juices flowing. I think it's just a tremendous sport.

Andrew Pace [00:11:46]:

So I've kind of started to develop myself a little bit as, like, an okay player. And, you know, the people at the court that I go to, there's they start to get to know me. And, you know, when you're the only guy that's 37 in a pickleball court full of people that have retired Monday at, you know, 12 o'clock because, you know, the betting schedule tends to be the opposite.

Shane Mercer [00:12:08]:

They're wondering what the hell are you doing there?

Andrew Pace [00:12:10]:

Yeah. People ask you what you do for a living and all that kind of stuff. So, of course, you know, this is going back to back to the euro and things like that. You know, people know that I bet on sports, and people that bet on sports are coming up to me. You know? You know? Can't believe England lost. Like, oh my god. I lost a bunch of money. You know? Like, oh, yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:12:28]:

You know? That's you're never gonna lose every you know, win, lose every bet. You're it's it's always the way it goes kinda thing, and then, you know, they start prodding, asking questions, things like that. So, Shane, you'll recognize maybe from the stream yesterday, there's a guy on Zoom who's trying hard. He's he's a guy I play pickleball with every day, retiree. He's just absolutely loving it. And this is a guy that has a whole bunch of betting experience. He's got bookies. He's got multiple sites, and he loses a bunch of money, but he loves it.

Andrew Pace [00:12:57]:

And he's like, holy shit. I won money this weekend. He messaged me, inviting me over for dinner. He's like, I wanna keep learning more. Like, what you're doing is unbelievable. Right? And, like, this is, again, this isn't about inplayLIVE, but it's about education and awareness. Yeah. Where you go you take a bettor that's potentially falling into some sort of the category that you're referencing of, let's just say, having less money.

Andrew Pace [00:13:23]:

And they go and I I I don't wanna reference encouraging problem, like, real, real problem gamblers. But, you know, they come into an environment where they go, wow. Like, you know, I I wagered more, and I lost less and even won money. That's where that education and awareness can just be such a game changer for you because it causes you to look at things differently. Yeah. But, I mean, it's a shame. It's this this does something this does not go anywhere.

Shane Mercer [00:13:50]:

No. No. No. No. It's definitely it's definitely not going anywhere. And I think, you know, you've touched on a lot of things there. I think, you know, you talk about the retiree, who it sounds like he probably has a fair amount of money to, you know, disposable income and that kind of thing. You know, perhaps he had a great career, and now he's just in a position where he he can do that kind of thing.

Shane Mercer [00:14:09]:

Right? But you also referenced yourself as a as a younger person before inplayLIVE, sort of before you were a professional sports bettor and kind of living paycheck to paycheck. And, you know, I think that that might be, the reality for a lot of people out there. A lot of people that are covered in this study, right, in North America, that are, you know, they live a good North American lifestyle, but perhaps they feel like they're struggling. Right? So what I mean by that is they have a roof over their head. They have food in the fridge. They have, running water. That's, potable water, clean drinking water. They have electricity.

Shane Mercer [00:14:48]:

You know, they they have all of these sort of modern North American amenities, but at the same time, they're living paycheck to paycheck. Right? And and it's it's still a struggle to cover the rent, still a struggle to cover their bills, perhaps pay for pay for their family. They've got kids, you know, that kind of thing. And and it's still it's a grind for them. And when Sunday rolls around and it's NFL Sunday, they sit on their couch and they've got their phone and they feel like they know what's going to happen today. Right? And and they feel confident, you know, making that 10 game parlay and throwing their $50 out there because they have this confidence that from their couch, they've been following the league and they know they know more than the books. Right? Or that they have some kind of edge that exists in their head. You know, and I think we've all been there.

Shane Mercer [00:15:38]:

Right? I I think at some point, we're we're all that guy, especially, you know, people here in our audience, mostly North America. And so I wanna take that study and and that person and contrast it with this study, that's come out of Zimbabwe that I think is absolutely fascinating here. So sports betting is on the rise in many African countries, and most of them are betting on soccer. K? And so this, if anybody's interested, this article is in a a publication called The Conversation. It's a a high, journalistic integrity mixed in with, a lot of, academia. So they have a lot of academics that will, come here, publish, you know, basic news articles, promoting studies, and stuff like that that have that they've come across or written themselves. And that's the case here where the study authors of a very academic study came on here to publish an article about their study, so that, you know, people can go take a look at at the study if they wanna read the more academic form of it, or they can just read the article and get get a sense of it. So I encourage anybody out there who who wants to dig into it to go have a look.

Shane Mercer [00:16:42]:

But here's what they looked at. So in many African nations, young people wait for long periods of time after completing high school and postsecondary education before they can find stable employment. That's because, you know, the economies are less developed. They're poor nations. The jobs aren't there. Right? So they go to postsecondary education. They graduate, and they have to wait before they can get a job to earn a reliable income, before they can get that 9 to 5 job. Right? That that many of us here in North America are trying to escape.

Shane Mercer [00:17:13]:

That's what they're waiting for and hoping for to be able to get. So it takes them a long time to acquire assets, to start a family, to fully transition to adulthood. And so they've actually termed this period of life for for young African men specifically, and and they call it wait hood. Okay? So you go from, you know, childhood or adolescence, and you don't quite get to adulthood. You're in waithood. And waithood is anywhere from 18 to 38 years old. Okay? Yeah. Think about that.

Shane Mercer [00:17:42]:

Right? Ace, like, you and I are kind of on the upper echelons. Imagine that you hadn't started your career till now. Right? So so think about that. Right? Put putting yourself in their shoes. So during this time of waithood, the these young, African men find ways to hustle. Right? And that's that's how they refer to it. Just hustling, and it's whatever they can do to make money. Right? For some, it's toiling in fields, farming, that kind of thing, creating and selling music.

Shane Mercer [00:18:09]:

Think like, you know, bootleg CDs and that whole era, and now it's probably, like, on a USB, you know, or something like that. Whatever small jobs they can find. It could just even be working at at any kind of local business doing any kind of pods and ends, handyman stuff, whatever they can find that you know? And and many of these people have gone to school for something, you know, that that might be, more professional. And so this this study, examined how, young men in urban Zimbabwe used soccer betting to mitigate the effects of unemployment and to earn an income. So they looked at these guys, the these young people in Zimbabwe, and what they found is that so many of them, they dig into as much information as they possibly can. So we're talking stats, news, video highlights, social media, expert analysis, predictions. They work together in groups using WhatsApp for information sharing. They they get their hands on whatever technology they can get.

Shane Mercer [00:19:09]:

So it could just be a tablet, mobile phone, whatever it is. They get access to Internet in any way they possibly can, to to tap in, get this information, and then to work together as a group to share the information. And guess what they do with their profits, Faye? So you'll love this. They reinvest it into their operations to upgrade their tech and improve what they're doing. So they found that in addition to being a source of income during this time, right, in this weight hood, these guys are actually generating profits. They're turning an income, but at the same time too, they're also improving their digital skills, improving their technological skills. They're learning, you know, how to use all these devices, how to do deep research on the Internet, and on top of that, the networking and collaboration skills. All of this is stuff that they might not have developed in school, and it helps them be job market ready for when wait hood is over.

Shane Mercer [00:20:12]:

So I I just think it's it's a really sort of fascinating take on what sports betting's doing in a third world country like that.

Andrew Pace [00:20:23]:

Yeah. I you know what? I don't think that's what sports betting's doing. I would look at it the other way. I would think of it as, like, what a group of people do.

Shane Mercer [00:20:31]:

Are doing. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:20:32]:

Do when they don't have the traditional resources that maybe we would be accustomed to to to progress in a world where technology is now obviously available. Right? Mhmm.

Andrew Pace [00:20:46]:

You know, if you if you think about some third world countries, you know, technology isn't necessarily readily available, and their lives are gonna be completely different than, obviously, anything that we're gonna be used to. But these guys are finding access to technology, and then they're figuring out ways to survive. And sports betting is is just a vehicle for how they're able to sort of invest. Right? It's really, really cool. You know, and then going back to your your what you were bringing up about, you know, paycheck to paycheck and rent and that kind of thing. You might have someone who has their last whether it's their last $50, their last $100, their last $500. Warren Buffett says compound interest interest is, like, the 8th wonder of the world. You know, so you take that whether it's the 50, the 100, the 500, it's the great equalizer when you save and invest.

Andrew Pace [00:21:37]:

You can make $40,000 a year, $400,000 a year. I've worked with both categories of people, in my previous career, but the 400,000 is broke and the 40,000 is well on their way towards retirement because of the decisions that they make. So if you take that same principle of investing and you actually apply it to sports betting, people don't want this boring, like, $50 bet or $50 bankroll with $1 bets where, you know, your your interest or your your growth at the end of the day might be a dollar. It might be 50¢. But when you compound it over time, how how impactful that can be, You know, it's it's like hitting hitting singles or taking an, you know, a hit by pitch versus trying to hit a home run, you know, where the the percentage of singles is way higher and the home run is is extremely unlikely, and and which will end up, you know, finishing first down the road. And it sounds like this whole Zimbabwe thing is, like, embodying that big time because not only are they turning a profit, they're also reinvesting it so that they can become better and that they can, you know, continue to see, returns on the same level or or, even higher, going forward. It's just it's it's really cool. Like and and it's awesome to hear about.

Andrew Pace [00:22:57]:

It's funny because I was having had a conversation with Lace yesterday about, university when we're getting getting that step count up from Saturday after the stream. I'm leaving a live stream on Sunday, and it's like I'm looking at my steps and, like, 2,000 steps. So, like, I gotta move my fucking body. I can barely move from the event, but I gotta move my fucking body. And we're talking about back to school because, back to school is is right around the corner here.

Shane Mercer [00:23:20]:

Yep.

Andrew Pace [00:23:21]:

And, I just had, like, a flashback on my university experience. And I think about this, like, weight hood concept and what I was doing when I finished high school. And I was working 2 jobs, and my university experience was driving sometimes 2 hours in the morning in traffic to get to school, to then pay for school. And as a really, really good high school student, I was fortunate enough to have a a really amazing scholarship to university, but the scholarship required a certain GPA in order to keep it. And I remember the highest grade in one of my classes was 79%. The highest, not my grade, the highest in the whole class of like 600 people.

Shane Mercer [00:24:02]:

Thats a tough class.

Andrew Pace [00:24:03]:

And I remember I got a paper, and then they gave it back, and they gave me a c. And I was like, look. This is the scholarship that I have. I am trying to figure out how I can get to this level so that I can keep my scholarship. And you are telling me that of these 600 people, not one of them hit the level that I need to attain to keep my scholarship. So I said, I need to know how I can improve this, what and what I can do to get my grade up. And the professor literally looked at me and said, you can't. On top of that, I went to, you know, these focus groups or these TA rooms or whatever the hell it was, like, after the class when you needed help with a problem or whatever the case.

Andrew Pace [00:24:41]:

And there'd be, again, 600 people in the class, and I'd go wait in line for 45 minutes to get one minute of someone's time, and then they send you packing to to work with the next, student. And, eventually, I hit a point with this whole system where I was like, this fucking sucks. I had no culture at my school. I'm driving 1 to 2 hours to get there, then walking 15 minutes in the pouring rain to to get to my class, all to be told that the grades that I need to attain for to keep my scholarship aren't impossible, but with certain professors are near impossible to attain. And I hit the point where I'm like, I am no longer choosing to do this. Like, this is not fun. This is not what I wanna be doing. Whereas these people in this wait hood, they are going, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:25:26]:

These are the like, I have to figure this out for myself. I'm not in some system with this 9 to 5 or some system with this university where, you know, I'm sort of subject to everything it is that they require. Right? Like, I'm not even getting into the fact that, like, a business degree requires 60 credits that are completely unrelated to business where you go learn about, like, why rain falls in British Columbia has nothing to do with your business career. Right? So, like, I love it. I think it's phenomenal. I think, like, our education system and everything that we do isn't wrong, but I think there's so much area for improvement. And you put this group of people together that now just has the keys to doing what they wanna do, they obviously I'm I'm just gonna assume they love soccer. Like, I have to make that assumption.

Shane Mercer [00:26:11]:

Yeah. To some extent

Andrew Pace [00:26:12]:

They probably really love the sport. They love following it. They're getting access to unique and special data and information, and they're investing their funds with something that they care about to return a profit. And and then, again, like, I brought up inplayLIVE for the first article. I'll bring it up to the this one. That's what we're doing at inplayLIVE. Right? We love sports. We're following it in.

Andrew Pace [00:26:33]:

We're enjoying the games that we would likely be watching anyways. We carve out the times for the sports that we each like more. So, Shane, you might spend a little bit more time on women's hoops than I do. Right? Because you actually really enjoy betting on them and learning about them and all that kind of stuff. Whereas, like, I might spend a little bit less time on college basketball than a than a different member. Right? Whereas I might be more focused on hockey or football because that's what I like more. Right? And there's this is, again, this is this sort of symbiosis of where this passion, learning, and play, like, all intersect, and then you find joy in a productive and healthy way that can be beneficial for you. And it is it is niche, but it exists in the world of sports betting.

Shane Mercer [00:27:21]:

It it totally exists. And I think one of the big things that I that I wanted to highlight in between these two, these two sort of, you know, people. Right? The the Zimbabwean, you know, living in waithood and the, the North American sports bettor that is pulling money from his from his, financial portfolio and and maybe going, you know, using credit to to place their their 50 or $100 parlay on on a Sunday before, you know, before kickoff is, you know, there there's just it's such a contrasting mindset and attitude and an overall perception of life that that I think is just, you know, it's such a stark difference there. Right? Where you have this person. Yeah. They might be, you know, in North America. Yeah. They might be struggling a little bit to to meet all their bills, but they have a life that is, you know, in in relative security where, you know, again, roof over their head, food, you know, utilities, all those things, where some of these people in Zimbabwe don't have any of that, and yet they're finding a way.

Shane Mercer [00:28:24]:

They're finding a way to make it happen. And I think the most important thing here is that North American bettor is sitting on his couch, on his phone, alone, making that parlay. And these guys are collaborating, working together as a team to try and and, improve all of their lives together. And I think that that's that's the big difference there. Anyway, I I

Andrew Pace [00:28:52]:

I I actually I actually have a little piece of advice there, Shane, as we head into football season. Yeah. Because, when this airs, college football starts tomorrow. But let's let's just pretend it's college football or it's it's the NFL. But, like, a really good example. Right? George is playing Clemson this weekend. That's that's kinda like the feature big time matchup of the college football slate coming up. Right? And I think, like, it would be really easy to say, George is not losing that game.

Andrew Pace [00:29:21]:

They're 13 and a half pregame favorites. That would be a very agreeable statement. And I would say there's a chance they could lose, but they're probably they're probably not gonna lose that game. But what happens with the recreational sports bettor that is in this debt and, you know, this bad credit score category is they do the reverse of what they should be doing from the standpoint of building their wagers even if it is a parlay. And that is they're looking at the books and the lines and making their decisions based on that as opposed to actually using information and data to then build the lines. And I'll give you a really good example of what your typical recreational, parlay builder will do from a betting standpoint. And I'll be honest with you. I fall guilty to this kind of stuff.

Andrew Pace [00:30:13]:

And the reason why I bet live is because now I see it, and I know what's happening because that player is on the field or that team is doing said thing

Shane Mercer [00:30:23]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:30:24]:

That I'm witnessing.

Shane Mercer [00:30:24]:

Doing what they were expected to do. Right.

Andrew Pace [00:30:27]:

So, like, let's just say it's, you know, the lions are playing, who would be considered a really bad team? The patriots. So let's say the lions are playing the patriots, and you're like, oh, there's no way the lions are losing. And you turn on the game, and Jared Goff was never starting. Like, he he's not starting. And there's some backup quarterback in that you've never seen before. And you looked at the line, and maybe that maybe they were like a pick them or maybe they were a small favorite. You thought they should have been like a big favorite. But you looked at the line first.

Andrew Pace [00:30:56]:

You made your bet, and then you found out after. I can't tell you how many times I would do that, you know, 14, 13 years ago where I'm just again, the same person. You know, I got $50 to go spend, deposit, and the first thing is that $50 lands in my account is I start clicking buttons. And I'm like, why? What? The Vikings? What? The Vikings are are underdogs? I oh my god. Like, they're playing the Bucks. Like, this is a great opportunity. And then you flick on the screen and, like, you know, maybe it's their star running back. Maybe it's their quarterback.

Andrew Pace [00:31:32]:

Whatever it is, he's not playing. Could be the same with totals with the weather. Oh my god. The the the the Bengals can't score 32 points in this game, and then you flick on their plane in Cleveland, and there's, like, 10 feet of snow on you know? Right? So information is what you need to have even a fighting chance at breaking even, let alone making money.

Shane Mercer [00:31:56]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:31:56]:

So, you know, if you are doing this recreational entertainment approach, the last thing I'm gonna do is be like, stop doing that because it is fun, and I still do some of it some of it. But go into it with some sort of a theory, some sort of a plan, some sort of knowledge that you are now trying to prove correct. And, again, proving correct doesn't mean that that that game won. Proving correct means that you are on the side of value regardless of the outcome that occurred.

Shane Mercer [00:32:30]:

Right. That you had some kind of edge that that you can point to and say, I made a good wager here, after the fact regardless of of the outcome. Well, Pace, I think this is a great opportunity to talk a little bit about about the retreat and the community that that you've built because that's what we're kinda getting at here is that, you know, in a lot of ways that information sharing and and gaining, you know, comes from working with other people. You know, trying to do something trying to win at this in a silo all on your own is very, very difficult. And and most of the even, pro sports bettors who do it pregame, and we'll talk a little bit about more about them as we get into bet bash. But a lot of those people who are doing it pregame, you know, they're not doing it in a silo. They're doing it with teams of people, and we've talked we've had them on, and they've explained how they work with people and how they you know, the the amount of of networking that they do and connections they make and how important that is for their success. And Right.

Shane Mercer [00:33:34]:

It's no different here in IPL, and that's why, I I wanna talk a little bit about the retreat because, you know, I I came last year. It was a fantastic time last year, and I met, some people I had already been working with. I had met them in person, and it was a great chance to connect with them face to face. And I met some people that that I hadn't worked with in the past that I did over the past year. And, and then again this year coming, there were some people that I would had a chance to meet with face to face that I didn't meet last year, but I had been working with them a little bit over the course of the year, this time around and to sort of make those connections in person and then have that exchange of knowledge, sharing information, sharing data, sharing tips, tracking sheets, and and, data accumulation. There was just so much of that going on at the retreat where people are like, hey. Let me show you my spreadsheet. And, you know, it's No way.

Shane Mercer [00:34:27]:

Oh, yeah. And it sounds a little, like, you know, maybe nerdy in that sense.

Andrew Pace [00:34:30]:

Fuck that, that's amazing.

Shane Mercer [00:34:32]:

That's so fucking valuable, man. Like, it is it is incredible opportunity to just soak up knowledge, build connections with people, and now I'm I'm just coming back. And and I was saying this, to my wife, Zoe, just yesterday that, you know, I think one of the most valuable things like like, look. I loved playing sports with you and and with everybody else out there. Right? Even though I'm I'm sore as shit right now. I I had a blast doing that, and I had an awesome time at the nightclub even though I almost missed my flight because of it. You know, I all of that was really fun. But but some but some of but the but I think the most valuable thing I'm probably coming back with is some of the relationships I've built and how, you know, I'll be able to work with some of these people in this upcoming sports season as we get ready to kick off the NFL season and with the NBA and the NHL, right on the tail of that.

Shane Mercer [00:35:23]:

I I think that that's probably by far the most valuable thing I got out of, out out of the retreat. And so, you know, again, I just wanted to say thank you for that. But, also, I I want we wanna know a little bit more about, you know, how you created the retreat, why you built it up, where it's coming, and where you see it going.

Andrew Pace [00:35:42]:

Yeah. I actually just have to touch on something that you said there because there's a member that was at the retreat that is an annual member of of obviously members and pro, and he he hasn't been on a stream in, like, a year, literally. And he views inplayLIVE as, like, a service that helps him with all the things that you just said, not actually the live stream. So I'm not trying to say that that's the value of inplayLIVE, but he wants to do his own thing with a group that he has, and he values the focus groups, and he values the retreat, and that's what he pays us for. He wants to be on those focus groups where he learns from Kenny and and Trampas and other people, and he wants to be at the retreat where he can network and build relationships with people. So I just think that that's cool. And I think that, again, like, you know, you you make, you you know, you get what you make of the things that you do in your life. And for some people, that means picking a lane, and that's the lane that he has picked.

Andrew Pace [00:36:43]:

Right? Now as for the event itself, I mean, we were just this group of people that was really having a lot of fun making money off sports. So we said, like, hey. We wanna get to get to get together before the football season starts, you know, in back in, 2021. So that was the end of our 1st year, and COVID was still a major factor there. We Kenny and Kaz made it out for that event, but, they were the only 2 guys from the US, and it was not easy to get into Canada at that time. So they were able they were able to come, and there was, yeah, I think about 26 people there. And then the next year, it was just absolute mayhem. And I treated the event of 26 the same way I treated the next year after that, which was essentially, like, I'm just hosting a big party, and what would I do that day to be get like, if I was having 20 buddies over, I could get ready for it that day.

Andrew Pace [00:37:36]:

And I kind of treated the next event in a similar fashion. I will tell you, it was 3 of the most difficult and stressful days of my entire life aside from, like, the loss of a loved one. Like, that is the level of stress and challenge that those 3 days provided me. I I hated it. It was so difficult and stressful. I was getting, like, an hour of sleep, like, panicking, driving, picking stuff up. Like, oh my god. It was so brutal.

Andrew Pace [00:38:06]:

So then the next year, which is the 1st year that you came, Shane, is where I feel like we really dialed in and had things a lot more organized. And then, yeah, this last event was was a ton of fun. And, you know, there there's definitely a lot of sport events. Like, you know, we played basketball. We played cornhole. We played softball. You know, we do have a couple seminars for educational purposes and things like that. Obviously, Shane, I did encourage at the start, like, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:38:29]:

Make the most out of this. You know, ask people questions. You know? Ask them how they're doing. You know you know, really try to dive in to see if there's some some little niche things that you can pick up on from the other professional sports bettors that are that are there. And even my dad who was running the barbecue said to me, he's like

Shane Mercer [00:38:46]:

He did a great job, by the way. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:38:48]:

He kept us all fed.

Andrew Pace [00:38:49]:

Yeah. Yeah. He asked people like, hey. How's the money? And, you know, he asked some bunch of questions and then said, hey. How's the money? And everyone kinda gave him a look as if to say, like, you know, this is the money. You know what I mean? So, you know, we have a lot of our top guys out for something like that, but, definitely a lot of like minded people coming out. Now as far as, like, how it all went and where I see the future going, there's parts of it that I think that if we changed, people would be devastated, because they just love certain elements of what it is that we do. I do think that deep down, there's probably a part of the event where if you'd lack athleticism, it could be a little bit frustrating for you.

Andrew Pace [00:39:31]:

Now you take a guy like Kenny. He's got good hand eye coordination. You know, obviously, he's not in the best shape. You know, he he lives for the athletics of the event because he is organizing teams and, you know, trying to find an edge and strategizing, and he's just beating the golden goose. Right? And that's just the way he approaches life. But, yeah, I could see that being a bit of a challenge for some people, like the cornhole as an example. Like, I was talking to Hittle and, Gosu and Trampus about it when they're at my place the next day. You know, there's maybe 8 people that could win it, you know, no matter how many people come.

Andrew Pace [00:40:07]:

There's about 8 guys that could win it. So, like Yeah. If we continue with something like that, we're gonna have to figure out a way for it to be a little bit more fun and inclusive all the way through to the top. I I know the betting on it and all that is super fun. But, yeah, I think that that there's there's room there's always room for improvement in everything that we do. So I'm always, you know, looking for feedback with inplayLIVE, with the event, with everything to go, hey. Like, let's try this. Let's try that.

Andrew Pace [00:40:32]:

And let's let's see where we land with it all. Now having attended BetBash and then going straight into our event, you know, there's definitely takeaways where I you know, you start brainstorming. You know, you go, is this something that should be could be beneficial to people that are not in inplayLIVE? And how does that work? What does that look like? I don't have an answer there. Is it just for pro members, you know, the way it has been? You know, venues, everything. Like, the list goes on and on. So I just wanted to continue to be a celebration of everything that we do, where people get to network better themselves, have fun, let loose a little bit. And and also it is to an extent inplayLIVE, you know, thanking all those people for the support because, obviously, we we put a lot into that, and it doesn't cost the member money to actually attend. So, yeah, we we put a lot into it all.

Andrew Pace [00:41:25]:

And, hopefully, that that scene from someone like you that, you know, attends and and, you know, hopefully gets to enjoy and have fun. You know?

Shane Mercer [00:41:33]:

Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's seen. It's it's appreciated. It's it's very much enjoyed. Pace, we gotta mention something or that that, hasn't been mentioned yet, but that was the, involvement of s x bet this year, which was, I thought, totally fucking awesome. It was incredible to be able to do that. I know a lot of other guys out there had a lot of fun with that.

Shane Mercer [00:41:55]:

You know, you talk about handicapping and who can win what and and that kind of thing. You're right. Like, I think, before the cornhole tournament started, we all sort of put our you know, people are talking, and it's like, yeah. There's probably 3 teams here that can win this thing. And sure enough, those 3 teams all ended up in the in the semifinal. But to have SXBet there and, create markets for us on this betting platform, if anybody out there doesn't know what SXBet is, we have an episode with their CEO and, chief marketing officer, I believe, on. And and it was her Kaye who was at the event. She was there for almost, the entire 3 days, creating markets for us when we wanted it, checking in on things, giving us bonuses, bonus crypto, and that sort of stuff.

Shane Mercer [00:42:39]:

It it was awesome to have them there doing that and just to be able to to go and place bets or create a market on something, you know, that might seem silly, but it it was just so much fun. And, I was going through, my my tracker, so I tracked all of my, all of my IPL retreat wagers.

Andrew Pace [00:42:57]:

Oh, no. You didn't.

Shane Mercer [00:42:58]:

Yeah. No. I did. I tracked all of my IPL retreat wagers. I made 9 wagers at the IPL retreat on our sex bet. I, went, 5 wins, 3 losses, one void, and I profited $104.70. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:43:14]:

Yeah. It was, it was a lot of fun to be able to be able to do that really, really cool idea. You know, it would just be, like, as s x spends grows, I was just thinking about it, like, as they grow, as they become a bigger company and that kind of thing. Like, imagine they had, like, reps in, like, major cities across North America where you're hosting a big event, and you're gonna have games like beer pong, like, you know, softball or basketball or cornhole or whatever. Right? And and you could have an s x bet show up and create markets for you and your attendees. And, you know, that would just be so cool. It it would be a lot of

Andrew Pace [00:43:50]:

Well, that that's what we just had happened.

Shane Mercer [00:43:51]:

That's what we did. Yeah. Exactly. Which was which was totally awesome. It would just be imagine you could anybody could hire them to do that. Right? I thought that that would be really, really kinda cool, as as a as a big sort of picture idea, but it was just awesome to have them there. I thought that was one of the the coolest additions from last year to this year.

Andrew Pace [00:44:09]:

Yeah. And I think that that website separately of the crypto takes a little bit of learning to be able to use. And then there's the hurdle of getting your money in there, which is not easy. I also think separately of that, there's a mistrust for me working with a sportsbook. And we don't work with them in any official capacity, but I'm just, like, a big fan of theirs, and they're a big fan of mine. That's really the relation the nature of our relationship. Truly nothing more. And people at the event went from potentially not knowing how to deposit or use the site and or not wanting to because they don't want to be a part of something where the sports book is actually there with us, To people pulling me aside going, this site is unbelievable.

Andrew Pace [00:44:52]:

Now I see what it is that you see. Yeah. Kenny was making markets. And the thing is, Shane, this I thought this was a really funny moment at the event. So we're getting down to the wire for cornhole, and there was a lot of, like, plus money field bets against one of those big favorites, that were offered early on. And we're getting down to the semis, and now we're in the final. And we talk shit about the sportsbooks and the lines that they offer, you know, like corrupt or bad or, like, high and vague. The final before the bag started getting thrown had minus 200 on one side and minus 140 on the other side.

Andrew Pace [00:45:30]:

So the group of sharp bettors are all trying to trap each other into buying, like, a terrible line on on either of the 2 players, which I just, like, I looked at it and I just had a good laugh. It's like, you know, we we talk shit about the books and meanwhile, like, we can't offer, you know, a a a fair line for for the games here. But, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun using SX, throughout the event. And that that certainly is an area of improvement because there were some events like the Cornhole in particular that saw a lot of handle. And this is actually something I didn't share at the event, but I have to share with you now, Shane. So on Thursday night, we had the betting lounge where we were watching the preseason football and the CFL game well while we were, you know, having drinks and eating after the cornhole. There was a greater handle on the inplayLIVE cornhole event than the Colts preseason game on Essex. There was a greater handle

Shane Mercer [00:46:31]:

That's insane.

Andrew Pace [00:46:32]:

On the heads up beer pong match of Kenny against me than the Colts' preseason match

Shane Mercer [00:46:38]:

Wow.

Andrew Pace [00:46:39]:

On SX. So we looked at that and went holy smokes. So Kaye took me aside, and she was like, we just did, like like, 10,000 in volume on your beer pong match. That's she's like, you guys are awesome. Right? And, like, for me, like yeah. Like, I I a lot of people throughout the event thought that Kenny had offered a side of a line. And I think some people just Yeah. Inherently didn't take it because they didn't wanna bet against Kenny.

Andrew Pace [00:47:09]:

But a lot of the lines that I put up where you would see, like, a $2,000 option to bet the other side, almost all of them were me. Kenny was actually just getting used to it and didn't have much funds in his account, but I'm sure he will he will rectify that. So but, yeah, I had I think I had about 2,000 US in my SX to start the event. And then winning the cornhole, it went up to 4,000. Then I lost to Kenny at beer pong, and then I didn't necessarily play the best in in softball. And I think that and I bet all of the the the field goal's wrong. So I took Kenny to make, took Brett to make, and it took Gertens to miss. And I think by the time it was all said and done, I was exactly even again after winning the cornhole event.

Andrew Pace [00:47:53]:

But, I mean, just the the the that I mean, obviously, that whole thing really is not about making money. And, that was just so much fun to have that element. And once people got used to it really understanding, like, everyone had their phone out, people were sniping lines as they'd pop up Oh, yeah. Of if if something came in that they believe to be valuable.

Shane Mercer [00:48:15]:

Yep. I'm glad you brought up the cornhole thing where where people are trying to sort of trap each other and yet all these sharp bettors. So I I mentioned, you know, my record, 5 wins, 3 losses, 1 void. All 3 of my losses from the cornhole event, those guys got me. You know, I just, I I couldn't beat them. I thought I I thought I was getting the edge. No. They had the edge the whole time.

Andrew Pace [00:48:34]:

It sounds like I got you. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:48:35]:

You've been you're probably one of them. I know you got me, and I know, Orange Crush who goes by our the Discord handle Orange Crush, Kyle. He got me, I think twice. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, it was a lot of fun. That that was a great aspect of it.

Shane Mercer [00:48:51]:

Absolutely loved it. Great time. I wanna ask you about, a BetBash now because you you sort of held this, IPL retreat on the back of BetBash. You were you were there, then you had to come back, get ready for this. And, you know, we talked a little bit about it on on a couple previous episodes, and we had our, our our survivor expert on last week, who you met at BetBash. But, just before we sort of wrap up, today's show, I wanted to ask you a couple questions about it because I wanna get a sense of of where, you know, where you kind of think inplayLIVE fits in the sports betting ecosystem in North America. And and, you know, I'm I imagine that BetBash was a real opportunity to kind of gauge that. Like, your first real opportunity to get a sense of of where you fit in.

Shane Mercer [00:49:39]:

And I wanna know, like, what was the reaction from over their pro sports bettors when you told them about what we do?

Andrew Pace [00:49:46]:

Yeah. So I think the first thing is already know our our already know we fit in and have a place in the industry just from the standpoint of, like, the success of our community. Like, I don't need the that industry lens to to know that we have a space in it. Now, with that, going to BetBash was hugely eye opening for all the reasons that you just said, of where we fit, how we fit, what we're doing, all that kind of stuff. The the first thing that I would say is that, it is predominantly the old school style. And it's not only that, but it's that old school style of, like, some of the guys that we have had on, like, Fats and Spanky, you know, that are working with teams. It's really just all about getting information. They get information from some source or system, whether that be, you know, someone like Adam, Bjorn, working with Planetech where he sees the sharp money come in on something and then goes and finds the lines that that has not moved at yet.

Andrew Pace [00:50:45]:

And then deploying your team to go obviously wager, on those lines, be that in person at kiosk, cash, bookies, you know, soft sportsbooks, whatever.

Shane Mercer [00:50:56]:

And this is entirely pregame?

Andrew Pace [00:50:58]:

Yeah. And there is tons and tons and tons of that, and BetBash is kind of geared towards that. Like, when you fill out the questionnaire for the speed networking, it's like, are you looking to get are you looking to get outs, which are accounts? Are you looking to give outs, give accounts? Are you looking to get money down, place bets for people? Are you looking or need need people to place bets for you? Are you looking to get money down for people where you will place them for them? And there wasn't a lot of other questions beyond that. So it's like that is the focus of, you know, that system and that being the way that things operate. Now there were definitely teams of live bettors. They are almost all doing past post betting. So they know the result. They've got teams at the stadiums, and they are calling in what is happening in real time, and people are betting outside of the stadium.

Andrew Pace [00:51:59]:

So teams that are are doing that, they've got people all over the country at stadiums.

Shane Mercer [00:52:03]:

Okay. Okay. So courtsiding and post post.

Andrew Pace [00:52:05]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There's a lot of that happening. So, I mean, guys like that, obviously, you get you're you're gonna get clipped just so, so fast. So they're always just looking for new team members to get money down for them. So just based on that whole system too, like, you'd be naive to think that people aren't going there to fuck people over.

Andrew Pace [00:52:27]:

And we did meet someone who said, like, they had met someone the previous year, and they said that their whole job is to they have they have outs and accounts, and they get money down for you, and they just stole all the guy's money. Jeez. Right? And, of course, that exists. Sure. Like, look at the industry. Yeah. And, you know.

Shane Mercer [00:52:44]:

And that shady side really comes out.

Andrew Pace [00:52:46]:

Yeah. And, I mean, that person has to disappear. Right? Yeah. So yeah. But that that's that is also a part of it when you take a razor thin edge, and then you take a team of people taking percentages of that edge, and then you have add in the factor of, you know, potentially people stealing money, of course, these guys still net profit. It's just it really is a lot, and it it isn't attainable for, you know, the masses. And that's where, obviously, like, I think inplayLIVE and live betting in general just does have, you know, a really, really appealing niche. And that that niche certainly has its place in the industry.

Andrew Pace [00:53:21]:

Are there other live betting teams doing things similar to us? Absolutely. But were we unique in the space? 100%. And, Shane, you were just kinda mentioning, like, you know, showing people your spreadsheet at our event Yep. Or or people asking to show their spreadsheet. That was a lot of what was happening at our booth at BetBash, of us being like, yeah. Like, here's all our bets and, you know, here's our spreadsheet. Here are our ROIs per sport. And, you know, this is all of our wagers called on the livestream throughout the year.

Andrew Pace [00:53:52]:

And for a lot of the pregame bettors, the ROI seems, like, totally unattainable. If you take, like, a 15% ROI blended across all sports, it's kinda fucking nuts. Right? Anything in the double digits is insane. Yeah. And that is the edge of live betting and, and what we do. So you do have to have that that data and information to back it up. And and even with that, there's people that that mistrusted it or or didn't believe it. And there was people that said, like, wait a minute.

Andrew Pace [00:54:22]:

If everyone's betting this line, wouldn't it just make sense to come on the stream and wait as long as I can and then fade you? And I'm like, you can, yeah, you can you can use our subscription for that if that's where you think the value is, you know, because we moved the line so much, but at the same time, there are a lot of books that hold the line, right, that that don't have it moving the way a book like Pinnacle or Bookmaker would have it moving. Right? So, yeah, definitely definitely a lot of a lot of that. Now with all that out of the way, that's kinda more what we're doing in the industry. Certainly, we have a place for a reason, and and you could definitely feel that at BetBash. There were people there that were learning. There were people there that were recreational bettors that were just there to have fun and party, and then there were people that were fiercely intelligent, like, genius level intelligence, people that make, say, my love of football seem just minuscule and irrelevant because they literally know everything, like, encyclopedia level information. And I love that because it just shows so much passion, and a lot of those guys are the guys that will be really successful with, like, pregame player props, pregame, pregame same game parlays, that are correlated, those types of of things. And and meeting some of them and talking with them was was really eye opening because I I find if you are, like, expert or approaching expert level at anything, I I like to this line, the the more the more you learn, the more you realize that you don't know everything.

Shane Mercer [00:55:58]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:55:58]:

Like, basically, the more you learn, the more you realize that you have to keep learning to to to even, you know, be at the level that you're currently at. So, you know, sometimes you'll have someone that knows nothing about a space that will act like an expert, but like a true expert will recognize that they know nothing in the grand scheme of what it is that they could know, in their field. And what I mean by nothing is there's just so much more out there. So talking to people that knew things about players and schemes and information and, you know, the list goes on and on, that was stuff that I don't even remotely understand. And that was really, really cool for me. That was like, holy smokes. Like, there are some fucking legit people out here. And even that was validating for me.

Andrew Pace [00:56:48]:

And I think why that was validating for me was because I felt like inplayLIVE is such an such a attainable and swallow swallowable because I can't even say the word. Swallowable.

Shane Mercer [00:57:01]:

Swallowable? Swallowable.

Andrew Pace [00:57:03]:

Swallowable. Approach to betting where you don't have to be some savant or absolute genius. Because if I were to toot my own horn a little bit, I do think that I do a reasonable job of because I'm not that level of intelligence saying things in terms that people can understand and and grasp. Right. So, yeah, I think that that also was validating from the standpoint of being like, Like, this guy's so smart. He's so good at what I he does. I can learn from him. I could be better because of him.

Andrew Pace [00:57:39]:

But, also, what he does isn't attainable for most people. He's too smart. He's a level of intelligence that, like, just he he's a genius. He's a he's a fucking genius. Right? So, and one of those guys actually was, one of the members on the team of Novig.

Shane Mercer [00:57:55]:

Oh, yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:57:56]:

That will be on the podcast soon. Okay. So, yeah, we we had their guy on

Shane Mercer [00:58:00]:

we had their CEO on. Right? It was, that that was Jacob Fortenski?

Andrew Pace [00:58:04]:

Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:58:04]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:58:05]:

Yeah. And and one of his partners is is, is so bright as a bettor.

Andrew Pace [00:58:11]:

so bright

Shane Mercer [00:58:11]:

can only imagine

Andrew Pace [00:58:12]:

The guys he's working with are are super geniuses too. Yeah. Yeah. But I I'm actually referencing as a bettor himself.

Shane Mercer [00:58:19]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:58:19]:

And that's what's gonna be really cool from from when he does come on and we get to speak to him. So, yeah, just just all in all, really, really awesome, really eye opening, extremely validating, but also at the same time going like, hey. You know, I can I can there's no stopping in the learning on my end? Like, I can I can keep continuing to learn and grow and and be better myself? So, yeah, tons of tons of fun. And and I think that from the standpoint of our event, BetBash, like, it would be cool to do a bit of a 1, 2 punch so that members of inplayLIVE are able to like, Vegas is, you know, west, for people to come and then maybe roll right into to inplayLIVE. But, also, at the same time, that is that's a lot.

Shane Mercer [00:58:58]:

So yeah. We'll we'll see.

Andrew Pace [00:59:01]:

We'll see.

Shane Mercer [00:59:01]:

That that that great great to to sort of hear where, you know, where you kinda see it fitting in and and what the perception is from other sharp sports betters out there as they sort of, you know, look at at what we're doing. And I'm not surprised to hear that that some of them maybe, look at the look at the spreadsheets or the data that you're providing them with, and they maybe doubt it because they've lived in a space for so long where they've found success, but that success has been with a 3 to 5 percentage. You know? And and

Andrew Pace [00:59:32]:

5, fives.

Shane Mercer [00:59:34]:

5 might be pushing it. Yeah. I'm I'm being generous there. Right? But, you know, they've been living in a space where that's their edge, and they've done it successfully. And then to hear that, hey. These guys are coming along, and they're they're tripling, you know, our edge, quadrupling our you know, the edge. They might they might find it hard to believe. You know? But, obviously, you and I and everybody most of the people in our in our community know that that's the case.

Shane Mercer [00:59:58]:

But I would imagine that, yes, some of these these Shark Sports Bettors, probably, you know, don't believe it. And and, you know, maybe they'll come around to it eventually, but it's also hard, you know, when you're when you're at a certain age and you've been doing something for so long and you're you you you got enough sort of stuck in your ways. Right?

Andrew Pace [01:00:15]:

Well, the well, the not necessarily. I I think part of it too is separately of that is they do believe it, but they know that if you're wagering 6 figures on on on matches, it might not move the 15% might not move the needle for them. Right? Which, again, I think is validating because you don't need some big massive team to do this. You can do it yourself. And with 4 figure wagers, as you know, Shane, like, 4 figure wagers, quite a large one for you, That that's you can really make great money, like, great, great money. So that's definitely something that, makes what we do, obviously, you know, quite attainable. You know? You don't need these these big groups or big teams and all that kind of stuff. But, also, like I did, there's a total pro bettor, big big time pregame guy.

Andrew Pace [01:01:05]:

And I did mention, you know, Kenny's under is hitting a 71% to him, and he he said bullshit. And I said, well, I'll like, I'll give you an example. Right? And I brought up the example of the game that ended 6 nothing last year. And I said, we we I don't know what the pregame line was. Sure. I said, we might have got on that game at, like, 36 and a half. Yeah. And we would have taken every key number all the way down.

Andrew Pace [01:01:25]:

So, like, that's an example of where we hit what we we won on the game. You know, the game was a winning game, so that's one game. One game. But we may we may have had 4 to 6 unders on that particular game.

Shane Mercer [01:01:37]:

Four wagers, 5 wagers, easy.

Andrew Pace [01:01:39]:

Right? And, like, I don't know that there was a game last year where we laddered down where we lost all of them. I know there was games we laddered down where we lost a couple of them, but hit a couple of them. Right? So, yeah, he he called bullshit on that. And the reason why I I brought that up, is because those are events in games that you can get huge amounts of money down on. Main market, NFL game, you know, especially, you know, at timeouts, you might be able to get 6 figures on one spin on Pinnacle or Bookmaker, during a commercial break. So, yeah, there's definitely value and opportunity in what we do for some larger bettors as well. But, again, you're probably gonna be a lot more selective. You're probably not gonna have, you know, bets on all the bets that all the wagers that are called on a stream.

Andrew Pace [01:02:36]:

You may just be focusing on on the NFL.

Shane Mercer [01:02:39]:

Yeah. You know, I was I was sort of having this conversation with somebody that, like, you know, it's hard to tell somebody who's a sharp sports bettor because, like, what we do because in their in their, paradigm, right, there's only a few sort of positions. Right? And I think you kind of outlined it there in the networking, section there. Right? Where it's like, who are you? Right? What are you looking for? And it's like, are you an originator? Are you a mover? Are you a top down sports bettor? A bottom up sports bettor? And it's like, I don't know how I would answer that if one of those guys asked me what kind of sports bettor I am or what what column I fit into. I don't know. What did you tell them?

Andrew Pace [01:03:17]:

Well, I think that the the some sometimes that verbiage is like, you have to remember that this verbiage was created from, you know, a lot of these guys that are at BetBash or that founded BetBash. Right? And, like, Shane, we have a lot of our own verbiage, some of which isn't some of which might be really strange

Andrew Pace [01:03:37]:

for some people to hear. And that was definitely eye opening at when I was there, there was some verbiage used that I had actually never heard before. But that's just I mean, that's the case with meeting people all over the world. Like, people thought I was insane in the United States for saying, where's the washroom? Right? They don't use that term, when you go to a restroom or a bathroom. Right. Right? And and then, you know, you you go the same thing for bedding. There's gonna be lingo that, you know, isn't almost even applicable to some of the things that we do at inplayLIVE. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [01:04:08]:

Because it's like, do I follow other people's models and advice at inplayLIVE and then wager based on their advice? Yes. Do I do my own versions of that myself? Yes. Right? And is some of it neither where it's actually just dealing with the game itself, but then using all of our wager history and data and instincts and knowledge of the sport and rules and motivations of the coaches that aren't necessarily modeled of 100%. Right? So, it's it's to to answer black and white, I think there are so many things in this world that are asked in a black and white way or presented in a black and white way that almost make you put your back up because there's perspective there that is lacking completely. There's actually a lot of studies that have been done on that, and politics are probably the number one area for that right now where you don't feel like you can have a discussion and say, like, well, I agree with this person on this, but not on these things or, you know, whatever the case may be. Or I think I don't need to say that I agree or disagree. I actually have my own, perspective on that. And, not that not that, Babash is anything political at all, but, you know, sometimes questions can be presented that way.

Andrew Pace [01:05:22]:

And, yeah, my answer is just gonna be super fluid for for pretty much everything because that is that is the case. I would say the sport that we model the most would be hockey because that's the sport that I would say will be, I would say, 20 ish percent based on the game we're watching. And then the remaining 80% will be based on our our models and historic data relating to that season, those coaches, and, you know, everything else that we do. So, Yeah. Yeah. So that didn't answer your question at all.

Shane Mercer [01:05:57]:

No. That's okay. I wasn't expecting a clear answer on that because there that's that's kind of what I was gonna get. There is no clear answer for what we do when it comes to that question, you know, and and where where where it falls in. And so it's, you know, I guess it's something to kind of kind of work through. And, I guess, you know, attending things like BetBash or even, you know, attending an IPL retreat or attending any real networking event, you know, is that opportunity to have that exchange of knowledge and information and and, you know, a share verbiage that maybe aligns and maybe doesn't, you know, and and to have those opportunities to learn

Andrew Pace [01:06:31]:

and grow.

Shane Mercer [01:06:31]:

And I and it's just totally it's just a fantastic, you know, opportunity in in any space, and and this space is no different. So, I'm looking forward to having some of the guests on, the people that you met at BetBash and the connections made there. For all of our audience out there, you guys can expect to hear some of those voices over the coming weeks months and, you know, hopefully, providing value to all of you out there in that way as we sort of share more perspectives and more voices and and that kind of thing in this space. But, pace, we covered a lot of ground today. So I think, with that, to you, to all the sports bettors betting around the world till next week, keep beating those bucks.

Andrew Pace [01:07:10]:

Happy college football season, everyone. Let's go.

Shane Mercer [01:07:13]:

Here we go. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code 'BEHINDTHELINES'.