Episode 100

Welcome [00:00:00]:

You're listening to Behind the Lines, a podcast presented by inplayLIVE and powered by Pinnacle, the number one sports book where winners play and never get limited. Go to pinnacle.com/inplaylive to sign up and get in the game.

Shane Mercer [00:00:28]:

Welcome in. It's behind the lines powered by Pinnacle, purifying the sports betting industry for a hundred episodes now. I'm Shane. He's pace. And, yes, today, we are marking a milestone. It is episode 100 of behind the lines. So we're feeling a little nostalgic here, but we'll also do a little looking ahead. We'll grind out some futures with Gosu.

Shane Mercer [00:00:51]:

He joins us in a little bit. But first place, you're joining us from beautiful Hawaii. It looks absolutely, gorgeous there. I've seen some of the videos you guys have been posting. It looks like you're having an awesome time. So I thought I would just kick off this show since you're in Hawaii by bringing a little home to you. Obviously, not your home in Vancouver, but but certainly your home in Canada. And, I just thought I would, share a little bit of what I'm experiencing here in, beautiful February.

Shane Mercer [00:01:30]:

Here's a little look pace at, what I've been dealing with. I've been shoveling multiple times a day, for about five days straight. The snow banks this is my home. This is this is where I live. The snow banks here, you can see climbing the trees. You can kinda see my minivan poking through a little bit in that picture there. It's yeah. That that snowbank here is a good seven and a half, eight feet tall maybe.

Shane Mercer [00:02:00]:

These walls lining the driveway here, yeah, they're about eight feet tall dividing me and my neighbor. Yeah. So while you're in beautiful Hawaii, this is what I'm doing, over here. Thought thought you might enjoy that.

Andrew Pace [00:02:13]:

Jeez. Life's all about perspective. I didn't need I didn't need a a greater reason to appreciate being here, but damn, you just gave me one. That is disgusting. So, thanks, Shane. My, my flight home has been canceled.

Shane Mercer [00:02:27]:

Oh, really?

Andrew Pace [00:02:28]:

Well, no. I was looking at this photo, and I

Shane Mercer [00:02:31]:

Oh, they're just saying, oh, yeah. You just don't wanna go home. Oh, I don't blame you.

Shane Mercer [00:02:36]:

I'm sure it's not that bad in Vancouver. Like, not like what we're getting here in Ontario, but but the GTA has just been walloped for the last, like, five days. It's just been insane.

Andrew Pace [00:02:46]:

How do you find time to bet on sports if you're shoveling that crap all day long?

Shane Mercer [00:02:50]:

Well, it's a good thing that, it's been a bit of a slower week with the NHL and the NBA on break. But it's it's given me time to to go and, take care of that. For everybody out there who's just listening and and not seeing, watching us on YouTube, go go check out the video on YouTube when you get a chance. But, if you're in Ontario, you know what I'm talking about. If you're not, yeah, we've we've gotten, multiple feet of snow. And and had to I've had to shovel so many days, so I'm just showing a picture of my home and my neighbor's homes and and what it looks like in our neighborhood and then the the snow banks piled up and and that kind of thing. Alright. Anyway, Pace, I thought I'd bring that to you.

Shane Mercer [00:03:24]:

But today, we are marking a a big episode. It is episode a hundred after, as I mentioned off the top. And, you know, so we're we're doing a little reflection here looking back on some of our guests, and stay tuned for the end of the episode. We're gonna we're gonna play you, there might be a little montage in the making, so stay tuned for that. But, I I wanna just go back. We started this about two years ago, almost two years, like, to the week. And we've knocked off a hundred episodes in two years, which means, like, we only missed a few weeks in that in that span, which is kind of, impressive. I didn't think that we would be able to reach this kind of milestone this soon.

Shane Mercer [00:04:02]:

I didn't even know that we would get this far. Okay. So when we launched this, did did you think that we would be here two years later still doing the show?

Andrew Pace [00:04:10]:

I'm ready for episode 10,000, Shane.

Shane Mercer [00:04:13]:

You're just ready to keep going.

Andrew Pace [00:04:14]:

I don't yeah. I mean, when you start something like this, it's it's, it doesn't really matter if it's a hundred viewers or 10,000 viewers. It's it's about the the purpose of why we started it. Right? And, you're really gonna feel that, I think, when you watch those first ten episodes. And if for whatever reason it is someone that's, you know, just checking us out for the first time and and you haven't gone and done that, I I would highly recommend doing it because the entire intent of this was to get behind the lines to show people some things about the industry that's going on, but ultimately is just to help people as sports bettors gain a little bit more knowledge and information that they can take to the books and and take home with them to obviously, make more informed, responsible, and hopefully profitable decisions. Right? So I don't know. I mean, I think it's awesome that we're at episode a hundred, but, yeah, I absolutely thought that we'd be here, and this is just the beginning. So, cheers to you and to everyone, but, yeah, let's keep it rolling, baby.

Shane Mercer [00:05:07]:

Yeah. You know, it's been awesome. You know, I think I remember early on, sort of sitting back going like, okay. What should we cover for topics and sort of creating a topic list? And, you know, we we sort of get, you know, ten, fifteen, twenty topics in, and I'm like, alright. This is a good foundation. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well, what happens when we finish up these topics? Where are we gonna go this way? What are we gonna do after after we get through, you know, get through these? But, man, it it it really is the, it's an industry. It's a space. It's an ecosystem that just keeps on giving.

Shane Mercer [00:05:37]:

There's there's so much moving, changing, happening out there, and and stuff to keep up with. And and, you know, there really is no shortage. And the other side of it is is the amount of people we've been able to bring on and and the relationships we've been able to sort of, create, people we've been able to meet, interview here on the show, learn from, people who who have certainly, helped me grow in my understanding of the, sports betting landscape and ecosystem. It's just been, remarkable. So, you know, Pace, I wanna go through at least a few of mine, and I wanna get a few of yours, of course. But, I I gotta just I wanna I wanna start this off, as we look back by just sort of mentioning a couple of key people off the top that I think were really sort of, foundational for me and maybe for this for this podcast in a lot of ways, given that, we are powered by Pinnacle now. And and that wasn't always the case. It's sort of a little bit newer in the last, few months.

Shane Mercer [00:06:34]:

But, you know, that that relationship with Pinnacle really kind of starting with Jesse Learmonth when we had him on the show. That was that was a really sort of eye opening, interview for me, to sort of see how somebody kind of navigated the the inner workings of of a sportsbook. And and the fact that, Jesse himself created the multi view on Pinnacle, something I engage with almost daily. You know? That was really cool for me to be able to sort of talk to somebody that created, like, you know, a piece of technology I am using all the time. You know, it's pretty rare that that you get that kind of opportunity. Right? It it's almost like, you know, if you had a chance to to speak with Steve Jobs or something like that, you know, when you have got an Apple phone. You know? It's it's something that you just use all the time, and you kind of even take it for granted, like, it's always been there. And to talk to somebody who who, you know, created it, that was super, super cool for me.

Shane Mercer [00:07:30]:

And then, of course, a few months after we had him on, we were able to have, Paris Smith on, the former CEO of Pinnacle who has made it, you know, or who brought it to sort of what it is today. And she was fascinating as a trailblazer in in the industry. So so, Pace, those are two off the top of, of my head that that, I thought were just, you know, really sort of cool people to connect with, chat with, learn from. What about you?

Andrew Pace [00:07:58]:

Biggest biggest impact on the podcast, Shane, not even a question. I'm talking to him right now. It's you. This whole thing is this this is your show, buddy. It really is. And you do a great job each week of of bringing the content that, helps the viewers become better bettors. And, yeah, I think on the on the note of topics, you know, you're kinda mentioning the landscape changing. Obviously, there's the news and regulatory stuff and things like that that we go through, but there's obviously our stories as well.

Andrew Pace [00:08:29]:

And throughout the time we started until now and obviously before we started for you, but you've you've come from, you know, a guy betting a few bucks here and there trying to figure this whole thing out to, you know, probably one of the best sports bettors in the world. So, you know, you you are. Right? So, you gotta give yourself a pat on the back, and I think our journey is continuing to be told through the lenses that we have is just gonna be hugely impactful for people. So we're gonna always continue to do that, whether it's navigating the sportsbooks that we're dealing with, you know, new strategies, the list goes on and on. So that that's been hugely impactful for me to see and watch you grow, but also just your professionalism and the way you handle yourself every single week is it's why it's why we exist on this show. So, you you get the the title and the trophy there.

Shane Mercer [00:09:17]:

Yeah? Thanks!

Andrew Pace [00:09:20]:

Alright. I'll I'll tell the truth now, Shane. I'll Okay. There we go. There we go.

Shane Mercer [00:09:23]:

Give the people what they want. So,

Andrew Pace [00:09:28]:

I I think, you know, I'll echo your sentiment with, with Paris and Jesse there. Jesse was hugely impactful, but I think the the ripple effect from Paris is is really what was so powerful because she's the first person I ran into at BetBash. Immediately, she turned around and said, this is Andrew Pace from inplayLIVE. Introduce me to the one of the owners of Pinnacle. Introduced me to, you know, three or four other people. And then Adam Bjorn was right there as well. And, of course, he, you know, has been been on as a guest, and he turned around and introduced me to three or four people as well. And that kinda started this ripple effect of having some some pretty prominent guests on the show, that that have come and made an impact on on the show itself, but also, everyone getting to to benefit from their expertise.

Andrew Pace [00:10:13]:

So, I would kind of put BetBash and and the previous guest prior to that as as the biggest impact to the show, just because that really kept us rolling with with some talk to your people. But, also, I think that, you know, when you're you're just a a show that, like, here's the slate this week and here's what we're betting on, I think it's a little generic, but we obviously have incorporated that to an extent as well with John. But, I I gotta give a shout out to to Gosu to John as well because, he's come on and provided insight that we can then attack however we seem we we deem fit with with, the the slate that's ahead, the week that's ahead, the season that's ahead, whatever the case. And I know inside and outside of the group, people have been able to profit from from, that information that that he's helped us with. So, yeah, I think, just just keep rumbling along here with with giving people, you know, more tools and and more strategies and and ways that they can go, make some money.

Shane Mercer [00:11:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. Big shout out to Go Soon. We'll bring him on and and and get a chance to to to thank him for his his his work, so far, and looking forward to growing, his portion in the show as well as as we sort of move through sports years, or sports year in the calendar year, as we go on. You know, I I'm glad you brought up BetBash because I did wanna mention, Adam Bjorn, who you mentioned. But, the other big one that that I can't, leave out is the interview with Spanky. And getting a chance to meet a guy or at least interact with a guy like Spanky and chat with him for an hour, ahead of of this big event that he has created, BetBash, that was really, that that was pretty cool for me. And, just to sort of learn from him and and hear his story, but also just to to sort of, help help create that that relationship between him and inplayLIVE ahead of BetBash.

Shane Mercer [00:12:08]:

That that's, you know, invaluable, I think. Really, really cool. And if anybody, you know, is interested, go back and have a look at that episode. There's there's tons in there. We talked to him. I don't know. For, like, a good hour, hour and a half. I don't know if we ended up using the whole thing.

Shane Mercer [00:12:21]:

But I know we I remember talking to him for for quite a a long time. That that was, pretty cool. Yeah. I wanna bring up I wanna bring up a funny one, though, because I I was gonna take take the, you know, our audience a little bit behind the scenes. We had on, Pace George Riley Pedagakis. You remember that? Not having having GRP. He goes by, I think, GRP wins on on Twitter or something like that. He has his notebook.

Shane Mercer [00:12:51]:

You know, he he tracks he tracks all of his wagers in a in a handwritten notebook. That that was, that that was something else. He I swear he he was joining us, like, from his mom's basement. I think his mom maybe even, like, made an appearance in the I don't know if it was in the show or before we started recording or just after, but I think I think we had a moment where we swear we saw his mom. And, man, that was that was a fun one. I'll just say that.

Andrew Pace [00:13:19]:

So on on that note, like, we can go a little behind the scenes here. Right? I and and just so people do know, like, every single week, I I flip this thing on, and Shane's like, hey. I'm gonna talk about these three things today, and I'm almost like, don't even tell me until until the show starts. Like, I won't know who's coming on. Shane does the the whole thing from an organization standpoint. But Sabrina is the one that books in guests, and she goes through, you know, a whole series of different, methods, whether that's LinkedIn, whether that's Twitter, various people's websites, different experts, different podcasts that she's out seen other people on, and she approaches them to to bring them on. Now, Shane, you didn't know who this guy was. And on the episode, you compared him to Spanky and to Fats.

Andrew Pace [00:14:05]:

Now I think you learned that that comparison may

Andrew Pace [00:14:08]:

have been slightly flawed. But, you know, this guy this guy comes on the show and, nice guy. I met him at Bet Bash as well. You know, definitely don't wanna be on here bashing anybody.

Shane Mercer [00:14:21]:

No. No.

Andrew Pace [00:14:21]:

He he he didn't know how to how to connect to Wi Fi. Yeah. So, yeah, he ended up keeping us on in his pocket after he had recorded and driving to Starbucks to connect to the Wi Fi. And all the while, we heard his conversations with his mom. He's talking about picking her up groceries, you know, on the way back. So that that that one definitely was an entertaining one because I think, Shane, you and I shot for maybe an hour to two hours, and we spent a solid two to three hours after that monitoring his upload to make sure that he got the car bug. And, he didn't do it. He didn't he didn't he didn't upload it.

Andrew Pace [00:15:02]:

No. So Chesto had to cut it

Shane Mercer [00:15:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. It was it was something else. And, yeah, I definitely made that mistake. Because I I thought, you know, here's a guy. He he's in this circle, you know, because I see that, you know, he's interacting with these people and, you know, he seems like, you know, a guy who's who's betting professionally or at least try to make us a living off of it, and maybe he still does. GRP, if you're out there listening, please know that, you know, we're just giving people a a little behind the scenes look, not trying to not trying to bash you anyway. It was just a it was an amazing sort of day to have you on.

Andrew Pace [00:15:38]:

If you live in your mom's basement and have to go to Starbucks to upload your your your your recording. I'm sorry. Like, you do deserve a bit of a call out. So but we'll we'll leave it at that. We'll leave it at tha

Shane Mercer [00:15:49]:

at It it was it was it was funny. But, you know, if you follow him on Twitter, though, I think you'll find that that he is kind of, he he knows what kind of bettor he is and where he fits in in the sports betting space. Right. And and that's, you know, it it's it's a it's a much more, fun place to be, shall we say. Sure. Sure. Sure. Alright.

Shane Mercer [00:16:14]:

Another one, that I wanna that I wanna mention, Pace, is, and we're we're gonna be having a back out. I know we've talked about them a little bit over the last few episodes, but, I really thoroughly enjoyed having Ryan Hammer on talking about college hoops. I can't wait to have them back. The trapezoid of excellence was something that I based my bracket around, to see how it would turn out. I did not win, but I did really well. And, it was really cool to sort of see somebody, model and track college hoops the way he was doing it. And, and then to sort of, you know, have him plotted out on a graph like that and and then be able to zero in on teams that were most likely to excel and to group them together the way he did. It was it it's incredible.

Shane Mercer [00:16:59]:

I can't wait to see what he is doing this year and what the trapezoid of excellence looks like this year. But, that was that was a super cool episode for me.

Andrew Pace [00:17:06]:

Yeah. And and, again, that just speaks to guys that are super, niche and and experts in what they do. He's not even a bettor. He's an expert content creator and predictor of, success in the tournament based on his metrics. And, yeah, really cool stuff. And I mean, that just brings up, like, you bring all these niche guys, you know, that have come on. The the the kid with the tenant the the tennis kid was just brilliant. I can't remember his name.

Andrew Pace [00:17:33]:

Shane, do you remember that guy's name?

Shane Mercer [00:17:34]:

Jeez. You're pretty well. So I'd have to go I'd have to go pull him back up. Oh. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:17:38]:

But, anyway, it's I remember, actually,

Shane Mercer [00:17:39]:

I fucked up his name. I think I I think I said his last name incorrectly. Berman. I think it's I think his last name is, his last name is Berman, and I think I called him Brennan.

Andrew Pace [00:17:49]:

Oh, that's nice. There you go. Yeah. So and and you still don't know his name.

Shane Mercer [00:17:53]:

And I well, I think I know his last name now.

Andrew Pace [00:17:55]:

He he he was phenomenal. And and that, you know, these Ryan Hammer, also a young guy. Right? These these young guys that come on that, you know, are really, really brilliant with the things that they've created can be super impactful for for all of us listening. So, yeah, real really awesome stuff. Great people that have that have come and helped us out here.

Shane Mercer [00:18:13]:

Now, I think, you know, looking back here on a hundred episodes pace, I would be, remiss not to bring up, the time when we had the first Sportsbook on. And we've had people from Sportsbooks on since then. Several different people were who work at Sportsbooks. I'm thinking about, the guy who, the founder of FanDuel. That was a great conversation that we had, just recently. You could go back and have a listen to that. But, Pace, the first time we had a sportsbook, Garnt. I think you'll remember this.

Shane Mercer [00:18:44]:

This was a a definitely a memorable moment. Oh, by the way, our tennis guy, Isaac Rose Berman. See? I got that last name right. Isaac Rose Berman. Shout out to shout out to him. Yeah. Very sharp guy. Anyway, back to what I was saying.

Shane Mercer [00:18:56]:

The first sportsbook we had on was the team from Powerplay. And I think that was an episode that that got a lot of reaction. A lot of people sort of, you know, wanting to share their thoughts afterwards about what happened, or or, you know, about about, you know, the sports book itself. And you had your own story, and and the, I just gave you the details moment, you know, base. That was, that that's a that's a definite, moment in behind the lines history, you know, for me anyway. It was really cool to have a sportsbook want to come on our show, especially at that time and what we were doing. There was a lot of back and forth behind the scenes. There there was some booking and then some canceling and some rescheduling and some booking and some rescheduling, but they finally did come on.

Shane Mercer [00:19:49]:

And, they were pretty good sports about it all.

Andrew Pace [00:19:52]:

They went the other way after that show too. They went went and clipped a bunch of players. We had a a player, one of our members get get their Powerplay account up to, you know, Fourty, fifty thousand50,000 dollars. They closed his account, didn't pay him. Went to the Curacao Lawyer and won the case. Thank god. He got paid.

Shane Mercer [00:20:14]:

Wow

Andrew Pace [00:20:15]:

Totally in the other direction. Like, totally in the other direction. That they they they rather than using what happened on the show, which, I mean, some people don't think is my finest moment, I couldn't control that I went to play on their site and that happened prior. Could I have told them in advance, hey. You know, you did this to me in my account, and I'm gonna be bringing it up on the show. Sure. I could have done that.

Andrew Pace [00:20:44]:

But at the same time, I wanted to see how the c level management would handle a story like that. And, they didn't handle it well. You know? I they didn't do anything for me. They didn't refund the money. Nothing like you know? And they they went on to basically find out who our players were, clip them all, and and obviously, in some circumstances, try to not even pay them, to the point that legal counsel had to be involved. So, because you brought that up, then I think about the other sportsbooks that have been on or have been represented on this. And, again, I you know, the story I've told that sportsbook the last couple weeks, like, the the difference of going, hey. This is a winning player, and this is how we're gonna treat that person even though we know who that person is in our ecosystem.

Andrew Pace [00:21:31]:

And and then obviously, Pinnacle, SX, they've been on really awesome. Novig's come on. I haven't been able to play with them or really know much about them because we're in Canada. But, yeah, we've had some I'd say the opposite ends of the industry on since then, and and those are the, obviously, Adam with Planetech and,

Shane Mercer [00:21:54]:

Prime.

Andrew Pace [00:21:55]:

Prime Sports with Joe Brennan. That's the it's just the total other end of the spectrum, and those are the people we wanna be talking to going forward. I mean, outing some sportsbook for not paying their customers is is quite honestly, it's beneath us now because, you know, we're we can we can talk about those books on here, but to to, you know, trap the CEO into a discussion is is probably something we're not gonna be doing again.

Shane Mercer [00:22:19]:

So many people who are in the space, who are operators but are doing it, in a in a much more, transparent, I would say, ethical, way. It's terrible to hear that, you know, Powerplay went and clipped a bunch of our players afterwards, and and they had to take them to court, or at least, you know, get get lawyer involved. Maybe it didn't go all the way to to court, but, you know, get a lawyer involved, to get their money. That's just, you know, disheartening. But, you know, that's that's a big reason why the show exists, to talk about, you know, incidents like that, to help steer people, you know, away from from, you know, books that are gonna treat winners a certain way.

Shane Mercer [00:22:57]:

know, but then I also go back and I think about somebody like former, FanDuel founder, Nigel Echols. That's who it was. Nigel Echols. You know? And and, hey. So we had him on, you know, and and, you know, he straight up told you, yeah. You come and play at my at my at my place and win. I'm gonna limit you. You know? And he did it with smile on his face.

Shane Mercer [00:23:16]:

You know? Like, what do you expect? I I I really appreciated that. Right? So you have somebody from a soft book who's who's just being straight up with you. It's like, yeah. You know? You come and you come and play here. You're gonna get limited.

Andrew Pace [00:23:27]:

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And, I mean, at least that transparency came through from a guy who truly understands the big picture. Right? Yeah. And and simply says this product is not the product that is gonna be the place for you to play long term, but these are the solutions that we do have in place.

Andrew Pace [00:23:54]:

And he mentioned his exchange, obviously. And on that note, when it comes to, you know, some of those robust discussions we have had with some experts about exchanges, exchanges, you know, we we have we seen that part we haven't followed up with that part of the industry. Have we seen that part of, I guess, the industry start to see the handle that they need to succeed? Have we seen, the live markets thrive, so players like us can actually go over to those, those sportsbooks, those ecosystems, and and get money down, in real time on on what it is that that, we wanna be able to bet on. And, I don't think that the answer is yes, but I also don't think that the answer is no either. So, you know, we as a group, like, as a collective, we all we have to support those channels as best we can. And sometimes that means, you know, throwing a few bucks into an account and and seeing how you can navigate it and it not working out, and maybe you lose a little bit of money as a result, and then moving on. But I've also seen as a sports bettor doing exactly what I just said, where a few years go by and things have improved significantly. And I'm in really good standing because I threw a few bucks into that account and and lost two years before.

Andrew Pace [00:25:09]:

I have a much more established account, to to go play. And, obviously, I'm not referencing an exchange right now. But that that point being, you know, take that approach. Right? Like, head over to an account. Sign up. Play a little. Right? Don't play with the intent to kill on day one and and see where that takes you. And I think as individuals, not so not necessarily, like, as a community, but as individuals, that process will really help you with, with long term success and profits.

Andrew Pace [00:25:41]:

So since we brought that up, we were talking about BetHog. I haven't been back over to BetHog. Have you, Shane?

Shane Mercer [00:25:49]:

No. No. I I don't think I I don't even think I don't I never used BetHog at all. That that was one that I I never even signed up for. I signed up for a bunch of them and and tried using a few of them. S x, of course, STX, which was here in Ontario. We had them on as an exchange. Novig, I wasn't able to because they weren't they weren't available here.

Shane Mercer [00:26:07]:

Yeah. But, no. I haven't used BettHawk.

Andrew Pace [00:26:10]:

Yeah. So so with BettHawk specifically, when he came on, there was no live markets. But I signed up, threw a couple bucks, and made a couple bets. Right? This I it's just always what I do, when I hear about a new sports book. So, Vice, go sign up, make a couple bets. Right? See see where that takes you. The list goes on and on. When you're going through social media and you come across an influencer, what site is that influencer playing on? What code does he have for you to go, become a part of the degenerate ecosystem that he is kind of promoting? You know, slap a few bucks in there, lose some money, and and good things happen long term, because of that process.

Andrew Pace [00:26:57]:

So yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:26:59]:

Yeah. Yeah. It it's it's just worth exploring and and trying out new things and and seeing what's out there, a hundred percent. Okay. Anything, else that stood out from you from the past year? Anybody that that you would really like to have back on or anybody that you definitely don't ever wanna have back on again?

Andrew Pace [00:27:16]:

Well, I mean, Alex Monahan was on, and he's, like, one of the wealthiest people in the world now.

Shane Mercer [00:27:21]:

Yeah. He really is. The guy I don't

Andrew Pace [00:27:24]:

I don't know what his distribution I don't know what his distribution of that bio was, but, that's just a really cool story. You know, obviously, we we have an affiliate with OddsJam. So if you're ever interested in buying through them, you just enter code inplaylive for 35% off your first month or inplaylive15 for 15% off in perpetuity. Obviously, they have a great product and, a really robust user base. I actually think to the to the detriment of the user. I I think there's times where using their software is gonna inhibit you, as a bettor long term. But with that, I use their sportsbook screen, and it it's phenomenal. And and here's Alex, getting bought out after we spoke to him for hundreds of millions of dollars, like, you know, 10 figures.

Shane Mercer [00:28:12]:

Yeah. His appearance on the on this pod must have had something to do with it, at least at least Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:28:17]:

That's that's what they're they when they're writing about the buyout in Bloomberg, I was there, like, after his appearance on the behind the live behind the lines I can't even say our podcast name properly. The behind the lines podcast. Yeah. But Alex was awesome to have on and obviously a crazy story since being on that that, you know, them them being bought out. So that that was really cool. But, Shane, honestly, like, as far as standouts go, I mean, it's it's it's, it's about not standing out to an extent. It's about each show having value week in week out where even if, you know, it is a long list and sometimes, you know, we cross over that hour threshold and, you might go, jeez, that I didn't get much that week. But that that is the whole idea is maybe you've got something that you could walk away with and go, hey.

Andrew Pace [00:29:01]:

You know what? I'm gonna start doing this a little bit better. Or, hey. I didn't know about that. That's gonna be a real game changer for me. And I definitely saw that at BetBash having a few people approach me that were not members that said that, Shane, you and I had impacted them pretty positively when it came to betting. So, even even if it's just a new sports book we bring up, you know, a new a new promo code to get you a bonus, or, of course, like, how to actually handle moving around some of that money and and making making some dough. That that's the whole goal. So, the obviously, we brought up some standouts here, but the the the whole the whole idea is is to make sure that each week is a is a standout to the listener to some extent.

Shane Mercer [00:29:44]:

Yeah. Exactly. And if, like you said, if I if, you know, if we can if we can leave all of you out there listening, watching on on YouTube, wherever wherever you're tuning in from with even just one kernel a week, it absolutely makes it makes it worth it, for for me. And at pace, I know you feel the same way.

Andrew Pace [00:29:59]:

So, Shane, on that note, I gotta ask you a couple questions.

Shane Mercer [00:30:03]:

Oh, yeah. Go for it.

Andrew Pace [00:30:04]:

I am, as we're recording this, nine days clean.

Shane Mercer [00:30:11]:

Nine days clean? Clean of what?

Andrew Pace [00:30:14]:

I've I've never ever gone two days in my life without making a bet.

Shane Mercer [00:30:19]:

Oh, you know bet? Bet free for nine days. It's not a single wager.

Andrew Pace [00:30:23]:

I don't even think I've, like, made Lace and I make fun little bets all the time. I don't even think I've made one with her. It's like the the ultimate no betting environment that I'm in right now, and a big part of that is obviously the break that's just ended. Right. NBA all star break. And, we have Canada USA tomorrow as this airs. But then the NHL break starts back up on Saturday, and I definitely will be betting on Saturday. But, yeah, it's been a real, it's been a real break.

Andrew Pace [00:30:52]:

So my question for you is, have you been betting these last, you know, ten ten days or so, and how's it been going?

Shane Mercer [00:31:00]:

Yeah. I I have been, volume way, way down, mainly focusing on on college hoops. I did, place a couple of bets on the four nations, hockey, tournament, I guess, if you will, if I guess that's what they're calling it. But, I was actually thinking about this. The it's entered nine days as a long time base, so especially for somebody who does what you do. That's that's a like, that that's, you know I don't know if I should be congratulating you or or, you know, giving you giving you shit because it's like, hey. Wait a minute. UWG didn't do any work for the last nine days.

Shane Mercer [00:31:35]:

But, no, you're on vacation, and you should be enjoying it. It's it's you know, that's that's awesome. I actually didn't place a wager on Friday, Valentine's Day. And it wasn't because I woke up and intended to not place a wager that day. I just didn't. And then at the end of the day, I thought about it. I'm like, I didn't place a single bet today, and I I couldn't remember the last time I had gone a day without placing even one wager. It it had been, you know, probably quite a while, a good a good year and a half to two years, since I since I had a day where where I didn't place a bet.

Shane Mercer [00:32:12]:

And, I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. So I guess I guess, you know, there there's that. I was like, yeah. It was it was it was it was kind of nice. So So nine days must be great.

Andrew Pace [00:32:22]:

Well, it's it's it's interesting you brought that up because yesterday, which is Monday, because we're recording here on Tuesday, was the first day that I saw bets go through that I still didn't bother placing them. And what I'm referencing is inside the inplayLIVE community, of course, we call bets in real time for the members to to take. I saw bets being called because we were not on a live stream. So if we're the reason why we live stream is because the dynamic movement of sports in real time oftentimes gives us a window of, you know, potentially three to thirty seconds to get a wager in. So while I'm actually calling the wager, I still haven't even placed it. And sometimes I don't even get in when when other members do. But I saw some of those calls come through where I was like, okay. These are bets that I want to have.

Andrew Pace [00:33:14]:

They both did win, and I'm referencing a couple wagers in both four nations games, which is awesome to see for the community. But it isn't FOMO for me. It's more like, okay. Those are the bets that I definitely want my bankroll exposed to, and I'm cheering for the group and and hope they they come through. And I I think I scrolled, like, hours after to see if they did and, and saw that they both they both, in fact, did come through. So maybe some good opportunities in Canada USA, but, again, like, reminds me of the Super Bowl discussion. So people get excited for this Canada, USA game. It's our, like, first best on best game that we've seen in in the hockey world.

Andrew Pace [00:33:51]:

And I have no idea how long it's been, but I know it's been a I know it's been too long. But this best on best Canada USA, people get all excited for. And, Shane, you know me. You know, we might be sitting there going, well, no opportunity came. It's just one game. We'd much rather our Saturday hockey slate where every team's playing. And and, you know, we know we're gonna get great opportunities on Saturday. So, you know, as you gear towards these these playoffs in one final game, it's not that that one final game isn't gonna be, potentially awesome.

Andrew Pace [00:34:21]:

It's just that it it could be one that we pass on entirely, which can be extremely anticlimactic.

Shane Mercer [00:34:29]:

Yeah. Yeah. It can be. And and you never know. We could end up with a game like that. PACE, since we're on this, maybe it's time that we we bring in, Gosu and talk a little bit about, about the all star breaks for both the NHL and NBA, and I know he's got a lot of, thoughts on, the rest of the season ahead. So so why don't we bring him in? Alright. Alright.

Shane Mercer [00:34:51]:

Welcome in, John Gosu here with us now. John, we're just, we we we're celebrating a hundred episodes here on behind the lines, this week. And in this episode, Pace was just talking about, the four nations and the best on best tournament. And, we were coming out of the NBA all star break, and you're here to do a little futures now after, spending much of the NFL football season and the college football season, doing the gridiron grind segment with us. So, as we celebrate a hundred episodes, John, it's great to have you back with us for this episode. It's been great to have you all along, providing, value to our audience with, some of your takes and analysis. And, really looking forward to sort of carrying on with you and your segment throughout the rest of our episodes, whether we're looking at hockey, NBA, or or whatever it might be. So, so thanks so much for for being a part of this journey with us.

John Wilson [00:35:52]:

Yeah. Thanks for having me around, and thanks for letting me stick around after the ball's over.

Shane Mercer [00:35:57]:

Yeah. No. It it it's great to have you, John.

Andrew Pace [00:35:59]:

We'll see. We'll see.

Shane Mercer [00:36:00]:

We'll see. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll see how things go. It depends on how on how these, on on how these sort of futures look and that kind of thing. Let's see.

Andrew Pace [00:36:07]:

The Rams didn't win the Super Bowl. I'm done with this guy. Yeah. Exactly.

John Wilson [00:36:13]:

That bet, though? They they gave him the best game out of all the games in the in the playoffs that, are massive number there. You gotta be gotta be pretty proud of that.

Andrew Pace [00:36:21]:

Right right down to the very moment, the vet that very last moment of that game, I still went. That was a great bet. I I still say it. That was a great bet. They go on to win that thing if if they've if they finish that game in Philly, and they they had the ball in their hands to do it.

Shane Mercer [00:36:36]:

So Yeah. Yeah. They they had their their moment for sure. Yeah. It was it was a great wager. I I really enjoyed that bet and and cheered for that, as as we went into the playoffs and threw it. Okay. So, let's talk a little bit about, the NBA all star break and, the four nation's best on best tournament here, guys.

Shane Mercer [00:36:56]:

I wanna ask you because both of these breaks have been different from years past. So I I wanna get your takes very quickly sort of John, before we get into into sort of your your futures. I I wanna get your takes on on what you guys think about how each of these leagues is doing it different this year, and who's doing it different in a good way, and who's doing it different in a bad way, or are they both doing it well? John, why don't you go first since since you just joined us?

John Wilson [00:37:26]:

Sure. I I I actually really enjoyed the the four nations, cup. Yeah. I think, like, I think especially from the standpoint of, like, how, tight and, competitive some of those games have been, like, from the actual quality standpoint of the product of, like, what you're watching. It's like a game that clearly people care about and wanna win, which is not something we get these days from an all star product, basically in any league. So I actually really enjoyed that. I think the NBA tried some stuff this year that was I I think the games those little micro games were more competitive than the classic all star experience, but it was just kind of terrible to watch. It was it was just a lot of standing around, not much going on, and then you played a couple of quick bursts of basketball.

John Wilson [00:38:12]:

So I just found myself I'd I'd, like, missed the second game entirely because I forgot that I was watching it. So then I had to rewind it and watch it again, because I was like, I do there was just a massive break between the games. It was kind of jarring in that way. But, Yeah. I don't know. The the the these skills, competitions, and stuff around it. Like, I think everybody everybody I think the three point contest is obviously the one that people it it holds up the best in the modern day, right, where you still have all stars doing it, and it's role players and stuff. Our bet didn't win that I that I that I called, but I've I've hit a couple winners in the last five years.

John Wilson [00:38:47]:

It definitely pays for itself. But the, you know, that the dunk contest, if, like, people are too embarrassed to go against the g league player or, like, a YouTuber, you know, know, then it's just not gonna be interesting because the name recognition's not there. So it is what it is.

Shane Mercer [00:39:02]:

I love that idea. What a review. I I forgot I was watching the game. Unbelievable pace. What have you been watching it at all? Why or were you just, like, checked out completely? Watching what? Well, e either any of this stuff, though, either it was the SkillzCon, but the NBA

Andrew Pace [00:39:20]:

or NBA. I I didn't know the NBA all star game was any different. I just get clips of Kobe Bryant when he used to care this time of year, and I'm like, jeez. That would be nice if people still cared.

Shane Mercer [00:39:33]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:39:33]:

You know? Whatever they're doing in the NBA and the NFL, it's, like, the biggest joke imaginable. I think the four nations thing is awesome. It's also given me more time off, so it's a longer break. When I saw the break time this year, it's like, like I was like, oh, boy. I'm going on vacation. You know what I mean? So, I'm all for long breaks. I'm all for the two breaks, coinciding and overlapping to give to give us a bit of a a pause. As far as the formats go, I think the four nations or any like, Russia and Czech need to be in the discussion of hockey.

Andrew Pace [00:40:07]:

Just period. They just need to be there. They can compete with Finland and Sweden. So any best on best stuff needs to include them. I have no idea anything about this stuff if they're talking about doing it next year or year's future, but I am definitely all for this going forward in the NHL. People will care more about tomorrow's game than they will the Stanley Cup final.

Shane Mercer [00:40:29]:

Wow. Well, I I mean, you may not be wrong about that. There's a lot of people that are that are looking forward to that to that Canada USA game.

Andrew Pace [00:40:37]:

Right. And, so I think from that yeah. Whatever the NBA needs to do to to change some of this stuff up, You know, Kyrie Irving wants to play for Australia in the Olympics now because he he was born in in Melbourne. You know? Get get it going. Get get some competitiveness going internationally. They they should the NBA should give this a shot too. I know it's still the dream team and they're gonna crush everyone, but, I I I like the idea of of what the NHL's done.

John Wilson [00:41:02]:

Well, they they, you know, they I think they floated the idea of The US versus the world. You know, I mean, imagine you're you know, the I think the five best players in the NBA are are are not American unless, you know, it's I mean, you get Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Shea, or and then I used to include Embiid in there, but then he became American, apparently. So, you know,

Andrew Pace [00:41:23]:

he's is not in there anymore.

John Wilson [00:41:24]:

He doesn't even play anymore. Anyway, but, you know, it's like, I mean, that's that's a hell of a team. So that guy could be really interesting. You know?

Andrew Pace [00:41:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Anthony Edwards is American, so he's the best player in the world. But, yeah, aside from him, anyways, John, I wanna bring up your futures before the all star break. I think that's important. You've already won a bunch.

John Wilson [00:41:53]:

Yeah. We've won we hit a couple win totals before the all star break. We got to shoot a couple guns. We hit the, Sixers under 51 and a half wins, and we hit the Nets over 19 and a half wins before the all star break.

Shane Mercer [00:42:06]:

Wow. Let's go. Before the all star break.

John Wilson [00:42:08]:

Pretty solid.

Shane Mercer [00:42:08]:

That's amazing.

John Wilson [00:42:09]:

So two two, we I think we had 10 win totals, five overs, five unders. One of each is already cashed. Got probably four that look really, really good right now, and then there's probably two that are basically dead. And then the other two are kind of, up for grabs. So it probably looks like, on our on our way to another solid year with the wind totals.

Andrew Pace [00:42:32]:

Love it. So you're looking at that stuff now for the rest of the season as well. Right? And why don't you give us, like, a brief version of what why you like what you like, like, what you actually look at to help people kinda get a gauge of where where you do identify value?

John Wilson [00:42:48]:

Yeah. So I I keep track of the strength of schedule, throughout the season. Like, what I kinda break it into there's different couple different ways to look at it. So I break it into thirds. The season is split into thirds in the NBA. So there's first third of the season is before Christmas, and the second third of the season is between Christmas and the all star break, and then the next third is is after the all star break. So I kinda break up, you know, strength of schedule by those, times, and that's kind of when a lot of the markets will reopen during some of those milestones or during some of those breaks. So, like, FanDuel, for instance, will reopen win totals a lot of the time during during the all star break, which is interesting.

John Wilson [00:43:28]:

It's normally a little too late to bet win totals. I don't typically bet a win total more than halfway through the season, just because the books have too much information. It's too easy to kind of price out what all the games are gonna be in the future. You know? It'd be like betting a win total in the NFL in week 13. So I start to look towards, like, playoff futures or, player awards. So I think SGA is kind of running away with the MVP right now. I think he was up to, like, minus 700. I think he's minus 500 ish now.

John Wilson [00:43:54]:

It's still it'd be I think they're gonna get the best record. We bet them to have the best record. I wanna say, like, plus three twenty or plus two eighty or something before the season started. So they're tied with Cleveland right now, but they have a much they have an easier schedule than Cleveland, and they've been trending, much higher than Cleveland. So they have a much higher net rating right now, especially over the last month. So that looks really good. So it'd be tough to play anyone else other than SGA for that award. I think Jogic is the only other person that's not a hundred to one, right now or or longer.

John Wilson [00:44:23]:

That said, I do really like the value on the Nuggets, as you called it, in the the Western Conference, so that you can get them at plus six fifty right now. Their schedule's a little more difficult than Minnesota or Oklahoma City, who's also in their division and some other teams out west. So, they've got that working against them, but I do think they have the inside track to the two seed because Memphis actually has a harder schedule, and they're tied right now in the win column, for that two seed. And I actually think that, the Nuggets are trending, much better right now. They've won eight in a row. Murray looks really good. Everybody's kind of staying healthy on that team, and then they have the best player in the world, in in Nikola Jokic. So, I really like them to get the two seeds, so then it's really just home court until they play OKC.

John Wilson [00:45:10]:

And I just I'm still not quite sure I think OKC is ready yet. You always have to kinda

Andrew Pace [00:45:15]:

He's actually the best player in the world, just so we're clear.

Shane Mercer [00:45:18]:

He's actually the best player. He's actually the best player. Okay. Okay.

John Wilson [00:45:22]:

We we remember when it took, like, the combined forces of all the best US Players to to beat him in the Olympics, with a bunch of scrubs. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:45:30]:

That was that's not too long ago. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:45:32]:

And I I don't know. John, honestly, like, I I've watched the Wolves play them again in the regular season this year, and I'm like, do they just have the Nuggets number? Like, they need they need someone else to beat them. And if they if they go if they go to the final, I think they're the only team that can beat the Celtics.

John Wilson [00:45:50]:

Who? The Nuggets or the Yeah. Yeah. The Nuggets. Yeah. The Nuggets Nuggets I I just think that the value on the Nuggets, we're getting the Nuggets priced, like, based on what we watched in the in the playoffs last year. And I think if that the Jamal Murray we saw in the playoffs last year and then going into the Olympics where he was actually benched for Canada, down the stretch of a lot of those games. He's he's back to, the least the last couple, like, month and a half, two months. He's playing, like, championship Murray.

John Wilson [00:46:20]:

And then Christian Brown's gotten a lot better, over the last year. So I just think there the upside there with them at plus six fifty, on a couple books to just to win the West, is is a really good team.

Andrew Pace [00:46:31]:

To the final is the bat. Correct?

John Wilson [00:46:32]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And I Oklahoma City, it's just they they're the most talented team up top to bottom, and they're playing they play the hardest night in and night out. Everybody plays hard in the playoffs, and I think you gotta kinda at least prove it to me that as a front runner, you're ready to be the favorite. You know, it's it's one thing to be an upstart, and kinda even do what Dallas did last year with Luka. It's another thing to to be favored to to win. Like, they're they're almost, like, even money, to to make the finals.

John Wilson [00:47:01]:

You know? Like, it's it's it's pretty wild, for a team that hasn't done it yet to be that favored. So, it's

Andrew Pace [00:47:07]:

It's kinda kinda how I felt about the Celtics last year, but the fundamental difference was that that the Celtics had been there twice. Yeah. And they were progressing, and they were it's you know, you go through you go through the history of time in the NBA. And when there's this team nipping that isn't over the hill yet, their time comes. That time was Boston, and I don't think Boston's going anywhere. I think they're gonna continue to be dominant for the next couple of years here at least. But from the standpoint of being ready, I love Shay. Like, I love I love him.

Andrew Pace [00:47:40]:

He's Canadian. I'm Canadian.

John Wilson [00:47:42]:

He's great.

Andrew Pace [00:47:43]:

That obviously always has a little bit of a connection when you're in a sport that is more dominant by one country where you're like, hey. That's that's our guy. And I know, like, my concierge at at my building, I talk about him quite a bit. He is obsessed with Nikola Jokic, because he's Serbian. And, of course, he follows his Serbian his Serbian athletes. So Djokovic and Jokic, to to name a couple. Shay was awful, awful in the Olympics when it counted most. Shay was awful last year in the playoffs when it counted most.

Andrew Pace [00:48:17]:

Jamal Murray too, but Jamal Murray isn't the guy that needs to be relied upon to be the guy. I I love Shay. I just I don't know if he can get it done yet. I'd love to see him in the final, but from a betting standpoint, you know, that value I I'm with you. Like, I'm gonna make I'm gonna break my, I'm gonna break my nine day hiatus here and go place that, right after we finish recording.

John Wilson [00:48:42]:

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Shane.

Shane Mercer [00:48:47]:

I was just gonna I was just gonna say, I I really do wanna see Shay carry a team through a seven game series. You know? Be before I think you could say that that she can be that guy. I I I think you're I think you've you've kind of nailed their pace. So we got we gotta see him actually do it and and be you know, have the whole weight on his shoulders the whole time.

John Wilson [00:49:08]:

So the the other team if I have to go out east, and I I I agree with pace that I think Boston is you know, the the Cavs could have the Cavs could win 70 games. I'd still say Boston is easily the the the the team to beat Yeah. In the East. But the if I had to pick and I probably will put a little bit on this, just kinda waiting for the right time to strike it. But the the Milwaukee Bucks, to win the East at plus 1,400, I think is a really big number, for having what is who is probably the best player in the Eastern Conference in Giannis when he's healthy. He's been banged up this year, and he was hurt last year in the playoffs. He's like, he he missed the playoffs, basically, and and that's you know, they got eliminated. Now that team is just keeps getting older, but what I really liked was that Middleton for Kuzma trade.

John Wilson [00:50:43]:

I really like that pickup, and I think it's just amazing what a change of scenery does for a talented player when you're in a culture that is obsessed with losing, like, trying to lose night in and night out for multiple years in a row. So going to a place where you're actually playing for something again, you know, Kuzma was a big part of that Lakers championship team

Shane Mercer [00:51:03]:

Yeah.

John Wilson [00:51:03]:

Bubble. So I really like that. And 14 to or, plus 1,400, to have the who's probably the best player in any series out there, they're probably gonna be the four of the five seed. Means they'll play Cleveland in the second round, much rather play Cleveland to Boston. So I think you could at least get maybe to the finals with a 15 to one ticket there, and have a chance to head to them.

Shane Mercer [00:51:23]:

Wow. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:51:24]:

I love that. You know what's interesting is the Giannis that that walked away with the trophy, we haven't gotten the crack he like, that second crack because of his health. And and we might not get it this year. But I've looked at the East and gone, well, it just feels like the Celtics just have a free path. Obviously, the Cavs are insane this year. And there never is truly a free path. But the heat kinda had Boston's number. They always made things so difficult on them, and that that ship has sailed.

Andrew Pace [00:51:58]:

Right? So with Giannis, you go, is he back? And if he is and he's healthy, 15 to one. I it's always about the number. So if you're sitting here and you're talking to me about some five five to one number, I'm gonna be like, yeah. 15 to one, it has that ring where you're just like, sure. It's like the Rams. You know, 40 to one. You're like, I'm not saying no to that. So Yep.

Andrew Pace [00:52:21]:

And now are we parlaying the Bucks to play the Nuggets?

John Wilson [00:52:25]:

Oh, yeah. The yeah. The exacta. Yeah. Well, that'll pay well. It'll be like a little 70 to one there or or something.

Andrew Pace [00:52:32]:

or something. I'm I'm sure there's a listener right now in this moment slapping something on that. Guaranteed. I know. Whatever that pays.

John Wilson [00:52:40]:

Well, you gotta sprinkle it. You gotta sprinkle it.

Andrew Pace [00:52:42]:

Well well, the thing is is is it gonna is it gonna pay what was it? It's 7.5? 7.5?

John Wilson [00:52:48]:

Yes. 7.5.

Andrew Pace [00:52:49]:

Pay that number? I don't know that it's gonna pay that number combined. So that's what you always have to look at. If you're not getting, I can't do that math. That's too difficult for me. But if you're not getting that that number, then why would you place it? It would that's that's being a degenerate versus seeking value. So

John Wilson [00:53:05]:

Right. Right.

Shane Mercer [00:53:05]:

Yeah. Yeah.

John Wilson [00:53:08]:

Yeah. So those are the two, like, on the if I had to pick one on, you know, either side of the conference, which I I will bet, those are the two. And then the other award I like to look at right after the all star break is the, most improved player. So, going back the last, twelve years, only so only three times no. Actually, only once in the last nine nine years has the person won it who wasn't a first time all star. So it almost always goes to a first time all star. So you can kinda limit, limit that sample size. And then I filter down to another set of metrics that define like, that that all these winners have in common and have in common with the year before as well.

John Wilson [00:53:48]:

So I'm looking at two years of of metrics around the players. So my my filter comes down to, a couple guys that are in the running. Cade Cunningham, who's a favorite right now. He's, like, normal juice, like, minus one fifteen. And then Tyler Hero is another one. He you can get him as as big as 20 o. And then Evan Mobley is the other one. He's, at, like, 60 to one.

John Wilson [00:54:10]:

So those are the three, like, I'm kind of looking at. I think Cunningham's definitely the favorite, but I don't really wanna bet something like this at at, like, normal juice. Especially at this point of the season, you could probably wait a lot longer and maybe, like, kinda get some inside info from the media, you know, fall listen to some podcast and stuff and maybe get a pulse of where the voters are. But I I do think the, the Evan Mobley angle is an interesting one. I did like Tyler Herro so long as they were gonna be in contention, but I think they just don't look the same now that Butler's gone. It looks like they've kind of just I

Shane Mercer [00:54:41]:

I think they're giving up.

John Wilson [00:54:42]:

Might I don't yeah. Like, I I just kind of see them being irrelevant now. Yeah. But Evan Mobley at 60 to one is really interesting because the Cavs may end up you know, there's a chance they have the best record in the league. I hope they don't. I hope the Thunder do, but they they probably will still get the one seed in the East. And I think Atkinson's definitely gonna win coach of the year. He's, like, a huge favorite for that right now.

John Wilson [00:55:04]:

But to have, like, close to, you know, like, 65, 60 six wins and that be the only way your team's represented, like, I don't even think they'll have a first team all NBA player. Right? Or maybe even a second team all NBA player. So it's always interesting how the media likes to sort out where they like to feel like teams are appropriately represented based on their records. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:55:25]:

Right.

John Wilson [00:55:25]:

And to only feel like on their ballot, they're only giving one award to this team that had the best record or almost the best record in the league. I think you'll see I I like to be optimistic that they'll find another way to reward them. And Mobley definitely, stepped his game up this year and been a big part of what they've been doing. So I think the value at 60 to one is really good there. And then if Cade slides back to a plus 200, three hundred or something, I've definitely looked to take him there. But I think I'm gonna take a little Mobley right now.

Shane Mercer [00:55:53]:

Wow. 60 to one on Mowgli. Love it. Okay. But before I ask you about the NHL, if you have anything there, can we just do a quick recap on the NBA? You've got the Denver Nuggets to win the West at plus six fifty. We've got the Milwaukee Bucks to win the East at plus 1,500.

John Wilson [00:56:11]:

14 hundred. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:56:12]:

1,400.

John Wilson [00:56:13]:

I'm sure there's there may be one out there, but yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:56:15]:

Sure. But plus okay. Plus 1,400. Mhmm. And, now, Evan Mobley, to win, what most improved?

John Wilson [00:56:24]:

Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:56:25]:

Most improved at 60 to one?

John Wilson [00:56:28]:

Yeah. 60 to one.

Shane Mercer [00:56:30]:

Love it. Alright.

John Wilson [00:56:30]:

Tell you yeah. And I've so, you know, these are big long shots. Like, you know, a lot of people will you might bet these numbers for a decade and never win one of these, but you only ever have to win one. So if I bet a most improved player at 50 to one every year around this time and I win one of them in my gambling career, I've made money. Yeah. So, you know, like, I just I wanna help people understand the prospect of value. And there's also value in getting out. I wanna say three years ago, it was whenever Marcus Smart won the defensive player of the year.

John Wilson [00:57:02]:

I had bet Bam out of bio at a 50 to one around, like, Christmas time or maybe a little after, like, early January. He got all the way to minus 200 at one point. And then I started to feel the media sensation of, well, a good time, a guard won it. And so I went and bet Marcus Smart at plus 700, and I essentially had locked in value on the only two people who had a chance for the media's eyes on these huge numbers. Right? So a lot of the times, you get a situation where it's just one or two guys, and you can actually hedge something that's not even, like, a tournament style. Right? Because it just simply can't be somebody else. So

Shane Mercer [00:57:40]:

Right. Right. Yeah. No. They make makes a ton of sense. You can always cash out. And, jeez, if you want, you go ahead, slap together the the three leg NBA parlay. And now we're now we're talking about a massive water.

Shane Mercer [00:57:51]:

I don't know.

Andrew Pace [00:57:54]:

haha

Shane Mercer [00:57:54]:

I don't know that there's too many books that are gonna take, that are gonna take a decent sized bet on something like that. But you never know. Alright. Anything over in the NHL?

John Wilson [00:58:04]:

Yeah. So I'm I'm actually starting to get into, modeling the NHL and looking at it similar to the way I I look at the NBA. It's definitely the the I would say the my understand or my not general knowledge of all of the players in the league is not where it is with the NBA where I could probably name, like, one through 10 on almost every team

Shane Mercer [00:58:24]:

Right.

John Wilson [00:58:24]:

In the NBA. Okay. NHL, obviously, you have to go a little you have to go deeper than that. So there's probably things, like, I miss and I know I miss with, like, injuries or, you know, you know, somebody's slumping or or whatever. But when I go through and I actually look at like, I I look a lot at Pythagorean win expectation, which is something I didn't talk about earlier, which for people out there, it's just it's basically your point differential or your, you know, goal differential across all the games you played, and it it should project out. There's a different formula for every sport, but it should project out, like, an, over the course of a million games. This is what your win percentage would be if you outscore teams by an average of five points a game in the NBA or, you know, by an average of point three goals per game in the NHL. Right? So when I look at that, for the NHL, I definitely see some outliers, like, with Winnipeg.

John Wilson [00:59:14]:

So Winnipeg, to me, I guess, it's probably because it's a lot of this is based on money that's in the market on teams to do well in the long run and what the preseason expectations were for teams. Right? So Winnipeg is priced as, like, the ninth or or tenth even best team in the NHL, when you look at, like, their Stanley Cup odds and their conference odds. But in reality, they have the high by far the highest Pythagorean win expectation. They've actually slightly underperformed won, like, eight straight now or something like that as well, though. They're on another heater. But their, just their, Pythagorean stuff is kind of off the charts from where their actual price is. So that's the team that I identified as something that I wanted to go bet when I was looking and prepping for this. So I already took Winnipeg.

John Wilson [01:00:06]:

I think I took them at plus, 1,500, plus 1,400 to win the to win the Stanley Cup, which I just thought was interesting for a team that has the best record in the league. And, the the data backs it up. So, you don't typically find that in in most other sports.

Shane Mercer [01:00:23]:

Alright. So so Winnipeg to win it all, to win the cup at fourteen to one, fifteen to one?

John Wilson [01:00:28]:

I know I'm betting against recent history and picking a Canadian team, but I feel like it's kind of the right thing to do as well.

Shane Mercer [01:00:34]:

So Wow. We got an American picking a Canadian team. Love to see that. And you're taking me back to, like, grade 10 here with pythagorean theorems and stuff like that. I'm like, oh, I'm getting I'm getting some flashbacks of, possibly failing it. Wonder what what's gonna be what's next? Oh, I see summer school in my future again. Love it, though, John, for for thoroughly explaining that. Anything else on the NHL side, or is that it for for now?

John Wilson [01:01:06]:

That's that's the only one that I had really pegged, for having value. But I just I will say, like, for reference. So they have the same they have a plus 68 goal differential, the jets do, and the Leafs have a plus 13 goal differential. So they're, like, Pythagorean win expectation is, like, another six or seven wins above the Leafs and, which is actually close to what they are in the standings. And the the Leafs have shorter odds to win it all, which we all know why that is. Right? That's that's that's money and market influence.

Shane Mercer [01:01:38]:

Right?

John Wilson [01:01:38]:

But that's, again, that's why there's value on these markets.

Shane Mercer [01:01:41]:

Yeah. So I love it. So, you know, 15 to one, and and we know the Jets are playing great. Would you even, like, wait till they maybe because you just mentioned them being on a heater. Would you wait for them to, like, take a loss, you know, or or, you know, see if if we get a loss in the next week and then place the bet at maybe GC if we could get better odds maybe?

John Wilson [01:01:59]:

Yeah. There's there's definitely no shame in kind of getting in and building a position. It's like, Right.

John Wilson [01:02:04]:

like a market. Like, you know, you you people who do a lot of investing in in in the market will tell you, like, you know, don't buy all of if you if you wanna invest, you want a a thousand shares of Apple, don't just buy a thousand shares of Apple. Buy 50 now, 50 next week, and 50 you know, like, it just kind of diversify when you're getting in because you never know when there might be, like, a big boom or there might be something you might get a better price later. So there's definitely no shame in just doing it, like, setting an alarm on, like, every Monday, and it's like, I still like the Jets. Like, I'm gonna go buy more Jets. Right.

Shane Mercer [01:02:32]:

Gotcha. Yeah. No. That make that makes a ton of sense. Alright. Cool. Well, there we go. We got three on the NBA side and, and one on the hockey side.

Shane Mercer [01:02:39]:

John, absolutely love it. Thank you so much for for bringing that to us and our audience. And, you know, if you guys wanna go out there and see if you get those numbers, maybe you get a better number even. Yeah. Well, you know, they sound like great value to me. Pace, anything, from you before we say goodbye?

Andrew Pace [01:02:59]:

No. I super appreciate John, coming in and and grinding away with us. And like he said, like, your expectation with this stuff should obviously be, very realistic because, you know, these aren't calls like the thunder to win the West at minus one ten that, you know, is technically a coin flip based on those odds with the vague included. It's essentially like thunder versus the field, with a coin flip where we're we're picking a side that you would, like, expect us to win because our win rate would have to be higher than 52%, fifty three % to to have an edge or ROI. You know, we're the the hit rate on these are gonna be low. Oftentimes with futures, things like that, it is fun. There is an entertainment angle to it. Obviously, John's calling it with value backed behind it, but, take definitely take the entertainment approach with you as you put these in your pocket because, yeah, compared to what we do live, you know, we're looking for very quick and instant, wins in literally in real time, like, much like a roulette wheel that was, tilted in our favor instead of the casino's, fast action with what we do.

Andrew Pace [01:04:05]:

So, this is very different from that. Yeah. Put your entertainment cap on. I just I just bet the nuggets while we were talking here, and, I'm looking forward to to cheering for Jokic and the the best player in the world and, see if he can can't get that second ring.

Shane Mercer [01:04:21]:

There we go. We we made Pace break his nine day, his nine day hiatus on betting. There it is broken. Bet placed. Alright. Well, there we go, Pace. That'll be your your longest streak probably for a while.

Andrew Pace [01:04:33]:

It'll be my it might be my longest streak ever, to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, well deserved. Happy to have broken it with Gosus call. And, maybe me I'm I'm really feeling it now. Maybe I'll maybe I'll place a bet on the the finals tomorrow, the four nations.

Shane Mercer [01:04:49]:

the four nations. Yeah. Four nations cup. That'll be great. Alright. Well, that's it for us. This was episode 100. So with that, a big thank you to PACE, of course, to Raj, Mark Rodman, the man behind the scenes at inplayLIVE, sort of pulling all the strings, for helping put together this podcast and initiating it at the beginning.

Shane Mercer [01:05:10]:

Big thank you to Sabrina, who brings on all the awesome guests that you guys hear and see on the show. A big thank you to Pace's brother, Brendan chest Chesto, as you guys know him. But Brendan Pace, big thank you to him for all the work that he does on the podcast he added. It's there he is making an appearance. Chesto, what's up, buddy? Thank Thank you for everything you do to make this podcast happen. My man and, John, thank you so much for your participation and to all the inplayLIVE pros that have joined us over the course of these last hundred episodes. We've had quite a few of them on. A big thank you to everything you guys do, one, that you've done for the show, but two, what you continue to do in the community on a day by day, week by week, year by year basis.

Shane Mercer [01:05:51]:

Thank you all. And the listeners. And the listeners. And, of course

Andrew Pace [01:05:56]:

that Crazy people that listen to us.

Shane Mercer [01:05:58]:

Exactly. All of you out there tuning in each week, you guys are a dedicated group, a very loyal group, of listeners and viewers, and we couldn't be doing this without you, obviously. And so your support matters. Please continue to like, follow us, download us, share us with your friends, your community, help us grow the audience, out there as we continue to, to to do what we do here on Behind the Lines. Alright. With that, we leave you all with a look back at a hundred episodes of behind the lines. Let's check it out.

Shane Mercer [01:09:19]:

Alright. Well, I think that does it for us on this episode. Pace, to all the sports bettors, to all of the sports bettors, millions of sports bettors around the world, and everybody tuning in from around the world to all all you sports bettors out there till next week.

Andrew Pace [01:09:34]:

Keep being those books. Alright.

Shane Mercer [01:09:36]:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code BEHINDTHELINES.