Episode 101

Welcome [00:00:00]:

You're listening to Behind the Lines, a podcast presented by inplayLIVE and powered by Pinnacle, the number one sports book where winners play and never get limited. Go to pinnacle.com/inplaylive to sign up and get in the game.

Andrew Pace [00:00:16]:

Shane, I've cracked 85.

Shane Mercer [00:00:17]:

You you've got yeah. You've ran them up significantly. You are allowed to get your full unit size and still and and have a profit boost applied to it on boost. This is like, I can't believe this. Welcome in. It's behind the lines powered by Pinnacle, purifying the sports betting industry. I'm your host, Shane Mercer. That guy over there, Andrew Pace, on today's show.

Shane Mercer [00:00:52]:

DraftKings VIP program in the hot seat with receipts. We'll zero in on marketing practices and a college basketball betting scandal. Alright, Pace. We just celebrated a hundred episodes last week. You wanna go back? Have a listen to that that we had a lot of fun there. And we have a lot of fun here on the Showcase. I have a great time. I don't know about you.

Shane Mercer [00:01:12]:

I think I think you have some fun, right, most of the time. But, you know, we're also not scared to tackle the hard topics. And I really think that that's one of the things that really separates us from the pack of sports betting podcasters out there, especially when it comes to to betting. And so today, we're covering, a little bit more of the shady shit that goes on out there. And in this case, I wanna kick things off with this DraftKings VIP program. So we've got this, story out from the Guardian. They're doing a bit of a series, I think, because this is the now the second one, that I've seen, from them on this topic. And so, I'm just, gonna do a little screen share here for everybody out there.

Shane Mercer [00:02:03]:

They can see what I'm talking about. If you don't know The Guardian, it's a very highly reputable publication, comes from The UK, but they've been focusing on The US market in this, series of articles here. And so this one, I thought, was super interesting because, they are looking at, some of the top firms in The US, and, of course, DraftKings kinda tops the list. And they're zeroing in on VIP programs in this one. And, I thought this one was super interesting because, you know, a lot of the talk out there, PACE, as you know, is that, you know, the sportsbooks say that they don't target problem gamblers, that they try to promote responsible sports wagering and and all that kind of stuff. Well, the Guardian, came across job postings for a VIP host. So DraftKings is looking for VIP hosts. They post their job postings.

Shane Mercer [00:02:56]:

And, in the posting, they they come across, some language there, that is, well, here here's here's exactly what they said. Let me find it here for you. So here's the evidence. Right? The job postings for VIP hosts is expected. The the the person applying and the host is expected to exceed engagement and servo service level performance targets and assist in reactivation efforts to reengage inactive users. So now the the Guardian reaches out to DK for comment. DK completely just ignores them. But then later, the ads are modified to get rid of that language.

Shane Mercer [00:03:49]:

So it's like, hey. We we saw these ads. You're clearly using language that makes it sound like you're trying to entice problem gamblers to bet more, and then they go and they change those ads around a little bit. It was pretty pretty funny, that that, you know, that that that they were able to kinda get them on that. I'll I'll also mention here too that, you know, this this series of articles starts off with, with this woman here, Lisa Del Alessandro from New Jersey who has filed a lawsuit against DraftKings, on behalf of herself and her kids because, guess what, her husband gambled away all of their money. Like, all of it. He was betting 440% of his income in a year. And, of course, he had a DraftKings VIP host who was enticing him all along the way.

Shane Mercer [00:04:40]:

They never verified his income. They never verified any of his, financials to, you know, guarantee that he was able to play for as much as he was playing for. So she's filed this lawsuit on behalf of herself and her kids basically saying that, yeah, you know, my husband is at fault and was a bit of an idiot here, but DraftKings allowed him to be and allowed it to get completely out of control. So, that's that's kind of what the Guardian is up to there. PACE, first, what do you think about, the job posting for VIP hosts and the fact that, you know, that the books all along the way are trying to say that that's not what the hosts are trying to do. Meanwhile, the job posting clearly says that that's what it is.

Andrew Pace [00:05:21]:

Yeah. I actually find the, like, the retraction of the statement really interesting. So first thing I'm actually gonna address, Shane, is Usain. What differentiates us on the podcast is that we get into the hard topics. Well, there's a reason why most of the industry or all of the industry won't necessarily highlight this to the degree that that that maybe we would. And this might sound hypocritical as you're wearing your pinnacle shirt over there. Wow. But everyone's in bed with the sportsbooks.

Andrew Pace [00:05:53]:

Right? Like, we talked about affiliate marketing. We talked about customer loss structures, how this whole thing how the whole system works. Right? And, you know, you're sitting there watching ESPN and you got the DraftKings live odds coming up. They don't just appear there. Guys, they pay for it. Right? ESPN's a bad example because they own a sports book now. But every single broadcast that you watch has obviously, the live odds being posted, the commercials in between, list goes on and on. Obviously, we've covered that in a big way.

Andrew Pace [00:06:25]:

So, whether it's another podcast or or, or or the broadcast themselves, influencers, whatever, Yeah. They're in they're in bed with sportsbooks. Now I'm actually not opposed to that. I don't think that's the end of the world. I just think that as a brand, you have to be aligned with who you're working with. And that's why Pinnacle is on your shirt right now. It's because we are aligned with them. They're the people that allow winning players to play with them, and I will support them even if they didn't sponsor the podcast.

Shane Mercer [00:06:55]:

And they have some excellent actual responsible betting tools like an ARB calculator. They're actually encouraged that kind of thing.

Andrew Pace [00:07:03]:

Shane, II I talk about the ARB calculator where I say, like, then you get used to it and don't need it anymore. I'm using it more. I'm using it more now than I've ever used it. It's actually really funny. But but that is why we'll dive into some of those things. It's like, we're not allowed to speak ill about the books that are paying us. Right? They're the good guys. They're the ones keeping the lights on.

Andrew Pace [00:07:24]:

Right? Now as for the the article itself, I I'm actually a little bit surprised that DraftKings took that approach. Number one of no comment and number two, of of switching the ad. What the hell do you think their responsibility is? Any business in the world is gonna try to get a customer that was once active with them to continue to be active with them. It doesn't matter if you're buying, you know, real estate, jewelry, or, you know, you're the local guy at Quiznos that stopped coming in, and he runs into you on the side of the road and say says where have you been? Like, why are they afraid to own that they need their customers back in their ecosystem that they've paid hard earned dollars to acquire? Why are they afraid to post that? That doesn't make any sense to me because the the nature of the business is losing money over the long term. Well, do do people not know that about gambling sites? Like, I would I would own it if I was DraftKings. I'd be like, yeah. Our cost to acquire a customer is x. This is a customer we've acquired that's no longer active.

Andrew Pace [00:08:29]:

We're going to try to get them active again. That's our business model. That's how we operate. If you guys have a problem with it, then don't apply to be the next VIP hosted draft kings.

Shane Mercer [00:08:40]:

Yeah. It's it's pretty simple. Right? They could've just defended it instead of changing it, right? It's kind of like own who you are at least. Yeah. I want to mention too that, you know, full disclosure here. I'm actually a DraftKings VIP, PACE. I've been a DraftKings VIP since about last August. I got invited for their their three week, sort of what they call audition period.

Shane Mercer [00:09:06]:

And, you know, I went into that though sort of armed with the knowledge that that I've gained over the course of of being in Imply live for for a few years now doing this podcast. I I knew what they were trying to do, so I kind of took it from a perspective of, okay. Well, I'm gonna go into this audition and, put on my most, degen gambler, persona here. And I'm going to, you know, do a bunch of pregame parlays, and I'm gonna do a whole bunch of, you know, wagers that I might not typically do or at least do with the expectation that I'm going to make, money long term. And this is actually after I had I had hit DraftKings up for about 20 k over the over the summer. And that's when they they invited me in, and, I was like, oh, okay. So I think they either wanna see if I am a Sharp Bettor or they wanna see if I just got kinda lucky for a little bit. And so that was my opportunity to kinda be like, alright.

Shane Mercer [00:10:02]:

Well, now I'm gonna go make a whole bunch of shitty fucking parlays and do a whole bunch of of sort of, you know, stuff to kinda keep this account in good standing and, see where it goes from here. And I have to say that my host has actually been, like, better than perhaps what I expected in terms of and what I mean by better is that he's actually asked me about, you know, Shane, do you feel like you're playing within your limits? Do you are you comfortable with your with with how you're playing and the amounts you're playing for? And and each time we've had a conversation, he always asked that. His name's Perry. Great guy Perry in Toronto. I won't put out his last name, but but if anybody else is a DraftKings VIP in the in the Greater Toronto area, chances are you maybe you've talked to Perry. And, I I've actually been kind of impressed with him. You know, of course, they've given me all sorts of bonuses and stuff like that along the way, for my birthday, things like that. But it's been generally a pretty a pretty sort of positive experience overall.

Shane Mercer [00:11:02]:

Now, again, though, I am armed with the knowledge I need to navigate that kind of a relationship, which maybe not everybody out there out there is. But I I have to say in fairness to to at least my DraftKings VIP host, I feel like he has he's done at least the bare minimum when it comes to responsible gambling and ensuring that that, you know, I'm not gonna, lose a small fortune. I'm actually really happy

Andrew Pace [00:11:28]:

I'm actually really happy you shared that. That's a that's, that's it's actually nice to hear. You know, it's like we're reading an article, another article. Oh, the big bad sportsbooks. And, certainly, we've we've been people that do the same, but it's, yeah, it's it's it's refreshing to hear that that that sort of effort was put in place by the company and actually executed by by your VA VIP host. Shane, I have a question for you. Yeah. Do your threads followers know that you're a VIP at DraftKings?

Shane Mercer [00:11:54]:

You know you know what? I don't think I brought it up yet on on threads. Maybe maybe I should. You think I should?

Andrew Pace [00:12:00]:

That's gonna really give you some street cred.

Shane Mercer [00:12:02]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Probably I don't know.

Andrew Pace [00:12:09]:

Shane, I wanna clarify here. So you told me you won $20,000 and then became a Draft Kings VIP?

Shane Mercer [00:12:15]:

Yeah

Andrew Pace [00:12:15]:

Ok.

Shane Mercer [00:12:16]:

Yeah. Yeah. I cleaned them up. I don't know. I did I did solid work over the course of the summer, and it was towards the end of the summer that, that that they had invited me in.

Andrew Pace [00:12:24]:

So this this is what's interesting. And and there's gonna be certainly some of our listeners that are gonna be like, jeez. I lost 5,000 and got my account limited. Chain $120,000 got VIP. So we we've talked about this a little bit before, but these sportsbooks remind me of, Elizabeth Holmes where all the different divisions don't know what's going on behind the doors of each individual section of the company. And I think the practice as a whole in this in the sports betting landscape is just it's laughable, quite honestly. So So you got these VIP hosts that are focused specifically on volume and getting your money into the ecosystem, and they have absolutely no clue that you've been limited, what your profits or losses are. They congratulate you when you've won.

Andrew Pace [00:13:10]:

They get you another bonus. They might send you some money on your birthday like you mentioned.

Shane Mercer [00:13:14]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:13:15]:

And meanwhile, you might not even have an active account with them anymore because, you know, the the communication lines between the different departments are so skewed, that they don't even realize that they don't want you playing there. The company has taken a stance that they don't want you playing there anymore, and the VIP host is sitting there just trying to do his job and continue to engage and build relationships with you and and, keep you playing. And meanwhile, you can't. Right? So in this in this example, Shane, I like that you said that you know how to navigate that relationship. Well, we've touched on this so many times in the last few weeks, but, generate your VIP status and keep it if that account is of value to you by using a reputable site that isn't gonna limit you, to to move your money out of, especially with a site like DraftKings where if you do have big winnings over there and the money doesn't filter over to, say, Pinnacle, you will get your money. You might get limited still, but at least you go, okay. There's no sweat or stress about the money going to the one side, especially if you're getting good bonuses. Right? Because that really helps pay for any vig when you're moving the moving the money from book a to book b.

Andrew Pace [00:14:33]:

Right?

Shane Mercer [00:14:34]:

No. Big time. Yeah. Yeah. You get all those profit boost, you know, all kinds of bonuses, and that can that can help a ton. And a lot of it is sort of focused on sort of parlays. You know? Like, I'll get a an extra boost for parlaying so many legs or whatever. So you can definitely take advantage of the pace with some of the things that we talked about before where it's like, you know, you do you do a two leg parlay on one side, and then you do the other combinations on the other book on the other side.

Shane Mercer [00:14:57]:

You know? A a lot of sort of ways to to go about it. But, yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been great. I know we've had some people too in our Discord community kind of talk about this as well and, you know, bring up the fact like, oh, I got, I got an invite. Do I take it or do I not? I'm when I mean an invite, an invite to participate. For DK, they do a three week trial, where where somebody's actually monitoring your account. And it's like, oh, should I do it? But but will I get limited? And and I know people who have said that they did get limited after their three week trial. But I think the point that I'm trying to make here is that that three week trial was a very important time to show them that you're not a good sports bettor. Right? It's a great opportunity to try to convince them that, you know, maybe you aren't, somebody, that is gonna win long term.

Andrew Pace [00:15:44]:

you a question. How much money do you need in your DraftKings account for Saturday morning, the start of a very busy sports day where you don't wanna miss out on an opportunity? How what's that dollar figure for you?

Shane Mercer [00:15:57]:

But that's, I would say minimum $2 is kinda what I want to start with that day. Knowing knowing that I'm gonna make, you know, at least, you know, four to five wagers with that two k. And, you know, if I go if I lose all four or five, then, alright, you know, maybe I'll take a break, but but it'll probably be able to keep me sort of going through the day.

Andrew Pace [00:16:16]:

Okay. So this is a really good example. You take your $20,000 of profit as the the benchmark. So let's say you put $2,000 into the site. You know, you you've you've hit this $20,000, of profit, and now people are asking like, hey. Should I accept this, VIP trial thing, right, where my account is gonna be looked at? Accept it and lose the money out responsibly.

Shane Mercer [00:16:43]:

Yeah. OrLose it to another book.

Andrew Pace [00:16:44]:

Lose it out. Book. Recklessly. Lose it out recklessly. Where literally you make two $10,000 bets that day, and you take the other sides at Pinnacle knowing that, yeah, it might have cost you 4 or $500 in losses. But they see that reckless play. You become a super VIP then. And then the next Saturday or the next busy day, if you still, you know, try to keep the 2,000 in the account, obviously.

Andrew Pace [00:17:11]:

But if you need to drop $2,000 back in the account, you're probably gonna get another great bonus.

Shane Mercer [00:17:17]:

A nice deposit bonus. You could reach out to your VIP host and get a good deposit bonus.

Andrew Pace [00:17:23]:

Number two, everything you do throughout that day, you run the 2,000 up to 10,000. You run the 2,000 back to 20. They almost don't care. They're like, this guy just goes all in once he he tries to hit it big. You know? And and if you if so many people will will fret about losing accounts and jeez, I can be the first to sympathize with you. I think I've I'd probably be ranked I I am I know I'm ranked in the top 100 people on the planet for accounts lost. I I can guarantee that.

Shane Mercer [00:17:51]:

No. I think that's probably very likely.

Andrew Pace [00:17:52]:

I could be top 10. I could be top five. Right? I can sympathize with you. But at the same time, stop whining about something that you can make a change on. That you can put these practices into place where every party wins. Is it a little bit more work? Does it cost you a little bit of money? Of course, it does. But if you're using a second DraftKings, odds are it's not in your name. And odds are the person's name it's in costs you some money as well.

Andrew Pace [00:18:24]:

Right. So you can really build some armor around your accounts, if you can run these systems efficiently. And for me, you know, in the last bit here that I've really been taking this approach to as many opportunities I have, it's usually about thirty minutes of added work each day that's unrelated to the betting slate itself. Like, it isn't like I'm, you know, adding this work in the busiest time of my day where it's a lot of stress. If it's stressful and it's something that isn't available to me that day, you just push it to the next day. It's not urgent work. Right? So keep that in mind as you go forward and find them and destroy them.

Shane Mercer [00:19:11]:

I like that piece of advice there. I could've I could've used I I could've taken that approach probably a a year and a half ago, two years ago. I burned a ton of accounts at this time of year, a couple of years ago. And, you know, maybe maybe it wasn't, you know, I mean, look, I'm in a place where I can get accounts. I've got a great network where I'm not gonna be hurting for for sportsbook accounts. But, you know, it's always nice to have them in your own name. You do end up saving yourself some money down the line.

Andrew Pace [00:19:39]:

Big time. Yeah. And Yeah. You know, when it when you're sitting there in the moment, you want that next dollar. It's like human greed is ingrained in every single one of us. So it can be hard to do, like, the long term make a long term decision in the betting world where we're used to short term, I guess, gratification.

Shane Mercer [00:20:03]:

Yeah. No. That's exactly what it is. And, yeah. You know, that that's that's what that I mean, that's what sports betting is kinda built around. Right? They don't want you thinking long term. They want you thinking right now in the moment and taking those big shots and and getting that that gratification you're looking for. You know, that actually brings us to to to the next topic that that I wanted to bring up here on the showcase.

Shane Mercer [00:20:24]:

Article out in The Globe and Mail. For all of the Canadian audience, you'll know what that is. But for our American listeners out there, The Globe and Mail is one of our premier, news publications in Canada, And we have a op ed in there, out this, the just this past week from a guy named, Timothy DeWorst, and he's a professor and senior research fellow in marketing and public policy at the University of Guelph. And so he's authored this op ed. It's titled, is it responsible for sports betting firms to target thrill seekers? And I didn't realize this before, but he he talks about, people, that a, another, psychologist sort of, did a bunch of research on and sort of deemed as sensation seekers. And it's a personality trait, you know, known to predict the likelihood of gambling and betting. And people who might be more prone to it are these sort of sensation seekers. And these are, people sort of described as, people who get bored easily.

Shane Mercer [00:21:29]:

They're always, looking for some kind of thrill. They don't like monotony. They don't like routine. They like things to be different and change and new and and that sort of thing. They're they're sort of fall into this category of sensation seekers. And and this article is kind of kind of interesting because what it does is it sort of likens, the sportsbooks, to another, big, industry that targeted sensation seekers, and they actually sort of outlined it in their marketing playbooks that came to light through, through court cases that are now very famous. And I'm talking about the tobacco industry. Apparently, the tobacco industry very much targeted, sensation seekers.

Shane Mercer [00:22:13]:

And so the sports books are kinda doing the same thing here, and they sort of point to some of the some of the ads like FanDuel's promotion encouraging people to bet now and all the, quick bets for fast action. You know, it's we're we're talking about some of those, in play wagers where it's like you don't even have to think about it, though they they offer you the wager right there, and all you have to do is click the button to bet it. Bet three six five has a has a slogan never ordinary. I think that would clearly target these, sensation seekers. And then, of course, you know, they always tag them with, this sort of please play responsibly in small letters if you're reading it or at the very end of a of an ad on TV or on the radio or something like that. And, you know, the the this, author sort of makes the point, like, you know, responsible describes, you know, being accountable and able to distinguish between right and wrong, and and sort of says rather than shining the spotlight on individuals that are betting, it's time for sportsbook providers to be answerable for their strategic marketing practices. PACE, we talk you know, we began, this whole podcast, this show early on talking about the ads and how they target people and that kind of thing. But it was sort of interesting to sort of see the fact that they're they're they're pulling their marketing playbook right from Big Tobacco.

Andrew Pace [00:23:36]:

Yeah. I guess, obviously, there's some validity to that. But I just some of the things you just said, I just think to myself, like, are we this stupid as a population that this type of marketing works? That three six five, never ordinary, and I'm like, sweet. That's me. I'm in. I don't know. Seems a little soft to me. I find, like, both articles you brought up.

Andrew Pace [00:23:58]:

It's it's almost kinda funny. It's like the big bad sportsbooks are marketing. The big bad sportsbooks VIP host needs to contact players that haven't played in a while. It's like, do you go down to the liquor store and go, how dare you sell this bottle of vodka to this consenting adult? Like, it's unbelievable, honestly. I think the marketing practices, you have a fiduciary responsibility of your company to put forth the best marketing you possibly can. As a sports veteran myself, I want the bets to be placed as quickly as possible. That's somehow a bad thing? I don't know. It just seems strange to me.

Andrew Pace [00:24:37]:

There was, one of those quick bets available on BetVictor last week. By the way, I had not read about that hockey game. Hadn't read a a word about it. And I was like, I think this game is gonna take more action than the Stanley Cup finals games. Took the most action of any Stanley Cup or NBA final game like, in history

Shane Mercer [00:24:55]:

Yeah and what a game. And what a game we got.

Andrew Pace [00:24:58]:

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. What what were we talking about there? The the oh, oh, yeah. Bet Victor popped up. Canada to win the, Four Nations two point 2.0 place to wager. No. Like, oftentimes, those boosts will have, like, a $50 limit.

Andrew Pace [00:25:13]:

I got my money in, and I got my money down on that line.

Shane Mercer [00:25:16]:

You got your money you got your your full amount in with the boost? No issue?

Andrew Pace [00:25:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So The bar You know what I mean? Like, is is that should we should we sit here and talk about how that Victor enticed me and got me to click that because they gave me better odds? Or should we talk about how there's potentially theoretical value on some of these boosts and quick bets that are being offered and how a player can actually make money from them?

Shane Mercer [00:25:40]:

Well im just shocked that that Victor let you get your full unit size in. Thinking like, you should be talking about that.

Andrew Pace [00:25:48]:

It's and and yeah it's still the same account. I I just I'm baffled. I'm baffled. Wow.

Shane Mercer [00:25:54]:

Wow, yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:25:55]:

We've talked about my my this account offline haven't we?

Shane Mercer [00:25:58]:

I think we did a little bit. Yeah. But but you're still

Andrew Pace [00:26:00]:

It's Shane it's it's it's unbelievable. Like it's unbelievable.

Shane Mercer [00:26:06]:

You've still got this BetVictor account. Okay so so we're on it. You've still got this BetVictor account running. They're allowing you to bet

Andrew Pace [00:26:12]:

Shane I've cracked 85

Shane Mercer [00:26:13]:

85. You've got yeah you've ran them up significantly. You are allowed to get your full unit size and still and have a profit boost applied to it on boost. This is unlike I can't believe this.

Andrew Pace [00:26:28]:

And withdrawn half the balance.

Shane Mercer [00:26:30]:

You did a withdrawal already?

Andrew Pace [00:26:32]:

I got to that point where I was like, something's not right here. I gotta start pulling a little money out. Something feels wrong.

Shane Mercer [00:26:39]:

Right.

Andrew Pace [00:26:39]:

Paid out that day.

Shane Mercer [00:26:40]:

That day? Yeah. And then, like, the full withdraw amount, like, did you pull, like, whatever their their max withdrawal is? Like, draw is? Like, I don't know. Usually, it's, like, 9,000.

Andrew Pace [00:26:50]:

Ya four of them. Right? Four of them. Yeah. And and yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Unbelievable. Wow.

Shane Mercer [00:26:56]:

That was truly unbelievable. I wish BetVictor treated me that way. I never got like, I never got treated that way by BetVictor.

Andrew Pace [00:27:03]:

Yeah. Well, I mean, you can slip through the cracks sometimes when you, when you take some of these methods that we talked about previously here on the show. But, anyways, yeah, like, am I supposed to fault that sports book for giving me better odds and and we're all. So they're they're bad if they have a high vig. They're bad if they boost the bets. They're bad if they if we can place them quickly. They're bad if they give you a bonus and entice you to play again. And what other reason are they bad to this time? I don't know.

Andrew Pace [00:27:30]:

But you know what I mean? It's like, at what point does the onus of this actually fall back on the player? I have, you this podcast has been pro player, pro player, pro player, but these these articles are are grasping at straws to continue to make the industry look as as poor as it possibly can, and I don't know. I don't I don't stand for it. Stand against it.

Shane Mercer [00:27:50]:

Yeah. You know, it's, I I think we get a lot of people out there, who are looking at sports betting now because it is so big. Right? It's massive. Right? Like, let's you know, it's it's it's everywhere. It's all the time. And I think we got a lot of people out there that want to write about it, without having any sort of experience in it. Right? Like, they they sort of are just looking at it from the outside and and kind of being like, well, you know, obviously, this is going to be bad. And look.

Shane Mercer [00:28:22]:

I'm not saying it isn't. I think for a lot of people out there, it's a major it's a major problem. I think for the vast majority of people out there are are losing bettors. They're gonna lose money over the long term, and some of them are going to, lose way more than they can afford. And I I you know, that that's absolutely gonna happen, but you do get a lot of these people out there writing op eds in in the one case or their journalists exploring a topic, that are are kind of just exploring it from from one side. You know? And they they they can't sort of see all the other sort of edges and angles out there. And and I think I think that's kind of what we're we're seeing sort of a flood of of coverage that sort of just paints the industry with with one brush, and it doesn't sort of look at the entire ecosystem as a whole.

Andrew Pace [00:29:12]:

Yeah. That makes sense. And I I think, honestly, just from the marketing standpoint back to the the cigarette stuff, I just think of Mad Men and John Hamm. I'm not sure why, but I just if I think about cigarettes, it's just what I picture. Or or maybe maybe the Kramer Seinfeld episode where he he he ends up being the the poster boy in New York.

Shane Mercer [00:29:31]:

Oh, yeah. For the mall guy right? Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:29:36]:

But I mean, the thrill seeker thing and, you know, your brain spinning to the next thing really quickly and betting being a place for you to land. Yeah. I think I think we have a responsibility as consumers to, you know, fight any urges that that are gonna be detrimental to us, whether it's, you know, our health, physical health, mental health, and obviously, like, you know, gambling falls into that category as well. So, yeah, play play play responsibly in small letters is the is the headline. Let the market how they wanna market and and to the consumer, play responsibly and, you know, do this for entertainment purposes or learn how to do it properly.

Shane Mercer [00:30:18]:

That that woman who's suing, because her husband, lost all their money, that case is gonna be really interesting because it is gonna put the idea of the individual responsibility against, a big corporation responsibility. And, the the courts are gonna have to sort of figure out where a majority of responsibility lies. And and so that'll be one to watch as a as a sort of weaves through the courts. And and I'm sure we're gonna see other, lawsuits like that in other states. But, hey. We'll we'll cover it for you at least here and then sort of bring you the bring you the latest on on some of these developments. You know, Pace, when it comes to this conversation around responsibility and, and and who's doing what, where, when, and and, perhaps bad actors out there. We've got another betting scandal, believe it or not.

Shane Mercer [00:31:05]:

And I think this is another one where we're probably gonna see more of this stuff, not less, at least in the in the short term. But, this is in college hoops pace right now. We're about to head into March. We're very close to March at this point. We love March, at inplayLIVE. We love February as well when it comes to college hoops, and and leading up to March. But but March is always a great month, for us. We love college basketball.

Shane Mercer [00:31:31]:

We love the March Madness tournament, and, we're going into it with a betting scandal at Fresno State. So three athletes from Fresno State caught up in a college hoops betting scandal. Names are, Mikkel Robinson, Jalen Weaver, and Zayon Collins. So, Collins has been out since January 11. He hasn't been playing because he got sort of pinpointed and and sort of booted, early on, or at least sort of earlier this year. And the other two guys are the latest, Robinson and Weaver. And, these guys aren't just sort of, like, you know, bench players. No.

Shane Mercer [00:32:07]:

These are the teams, like, top two scores and playmakers. These are these are the two guys that are, like, leaders on the team, Robinson and Weaver, and they were placing bets that their team would go under on projected points and rebound totals. So, you know, following the, the Jontay Porter playbook, if you will. You know, Pace, what do you think we're gonna start to see probably, you know, more of these kinds of things bubbling up to the surface? We're talking about college players here who, you know, perhaps don't have a shot at the NBA anyway, and maybe they're just trying to look for ways to to make some money while they can get it.

Andrew Pace [00:32:47]:

Sure. Yeah. I hate this stuff. Really hate it. Don't know the answer. It's gonna keep we're gonna keep bringing this up on the show because it's gonna keep happening. I think they just need to be punished with the greatest severity imaginable. Like, you know?

Shane Mercer [00:33:05]:

What is that? What does that look like in your mind other than getting booted off the team?

Andrew Pace [00:33:08]:

That. They can't they can't be they can't play basketball at any level ever again in their life. They need to be when they go down to the the streets to to play pickup hoops with their buddies, there needs to be an authority that comes via boat and ships them to a new country for for having tried to play hoops again. Like, I it's just, it's the integrity of the game. Yeah. It's been going on for, you know, a century, or probably longer. You know? Oh, hey. Do this, and then we can just do that.

Andrew Pace [00:33:40]:

Right? Yeah. Here's your incentive for doing it, or here's the fear based, incentive if you don't. Right? Yeah. It it's it's tricky. Sounds like, these kids probably made a decision that they shouldn't have made. And, yeah, they they do. They there needs to be a pretty harsh punishment for this kind of thing. I don't I don't have the answers to this.

Andrew Pace [00:34:00]:

It's it's existed forever for a reason. It's gonna continue to exist. I guess the good thing is is that when it's being caught so we hear about it once once, right, once it's been published. Yeah. That's when we then know about it. It's good thing it's being being caught. That's all I can really say.

Shane Mercer [00:34:20]:

Yeah. It's great. Obviously, it's a good thing it's being caught. I don't know if they were working alone or they were working with a group of people or, you know, if they had sort of just the two of them kind of conspired to do this together. I I hope that if if they were willing to jeopardize their their entire sort of basketball playing careers and just their integrity as kind of humans, that they were at least willing to play some significant wagers, you know, on these so that they could cash out at least in a big way. I I have a feeling like they probably did it. You know? You just know that these are two guys who placed, you know, a a a few hundred dollars on each wager that they that they were placing too. You know? Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:34:59]:

Just to make some extra money.

Andrew Pace [00:35:01]:

Without knowing that, like, that age range is highly moldable. Like, I was just talking about the consenting adult thing. Yeah. You know, if you're preying on guys that are 18, 19, 20, or maybe not maybe not even the legal betting age yet, and they're at the collegiate level, and you can get them some extra cash, especially if they're broke. You know, that's a that's an easy sell for for some of those athletes for sure. So, you know, you just you hate to see it, and, yeah, just just keep catching it so that people can be an an exam an example for the next the next person. But if they do just get away with it, you know, largely speaking, I think that that that that then leads to it continuing, you know, young athletes that are at this collegiate level that won't make the NBA and maybe aren't getting any big nil deals go, hey. This is an opportunity to make a few thousand bucks, like, not a lot of money.

Andrew Pace [00:35:50]:

And they go, that sounds awesome. We can we can go to Cabo for spring break now. You know?

Shane Mercer [00:35:56]:

So Yeah. Exactly. Right? I I know that there are some jurisdictions that are, like, really closely looking at this this topic of, college, sports, sports betting, and, looking at, you know, whether it should be allowed in that state. So if you live in the state, can you bet on, you know, schools in that state? And I know that we already know that that you sort of if you live in New Jersey, I think you can't bet on New Jersey teams and New Jersey schools, because they're concerned that, you know, bigger bettors could influence those players because, you know, there's access to them, easy to kind of get access to them. I I don't know that that's the case here, but, yeah, they're gonna there's gotta be something going on, to really look closely at it because this is such a highly vulnerable, area of sports to, integrity issues like this. And and, yeah, we we need it we need it to to end because I hate you brought up threads earlier. I hate going on threads and hearing about people saying that the Super Bowl is fixed or saying that, you know, the NBA is fixed and this and that because I I really, I I don't believe that it is for the most part. But we know it can happen, and we got we gotta they we got they gotta get rid of it.

Andrew Pace [00:37:17]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway,

Shane Mercer [00:37:20]:

I guess, we'll we'll keep monitoring and and, you know, see what else happens out there. I wouldn't be surprised if we get see a few more of these stories, Payson. And in, you know, towards the March, when March Madness is in full swing, we're gonna hear some more stories and and from other schools and that kind of thing. I it wouldn't shock me one bit. I I hope it's not the case. And more importantly, I hope we don't lose any money because of it.

Andrew Pace [00:37:43]:

Yeah. Agreed. I don't think most of this stuff affects what we do. No. No. That's not And that's one of the things that's nice about what we do is if you suspected something and saw it in real time, that'd be a reason to pass, a reason to stay away, or a reason to take with more confidence, if if if that were the case. But I personally have seen only a handful of games. That CFL game this last summer was the number one I've ever watched.

Shane Mercer [00:38:10]:

I remember.

Andrew Pace [00:38:12]:

go, something isn't right. The motivations that are so obvious here are now not aligned to the way that I assumed they would be. And as a result, I think there could be something, you know, kinda fishy going on here. But aside from, but mostly speaking or aside from that, you know, it doesn't really affect a lot of the live betting stuff that we do.

Shane Mercer [00:38:35]:

No. We are heading into March. And since we're on the topic of college basketball and it is such a big part of what we do, PACE, before we, say goodbye to everybody, is there any sort of, bit of tips when it comes to betting college basketball that you might want to share with our audience out there? I'm thinking about the people who maybe are newer to inplayLIVE if they're within the community or if they're not within the community and they're wondering what it is that we do live. Is there is there anything that that you'd wanna share with them about how we look at college basketball?

Andrew Pace [00:39:05]:

Yeah. So first thing I'm gonna address has nothing to do with college basketball. It actually has to do with the inplayLIVE community. Couple weeks ago, we made a a pricing change. We We got a comment on our last podcast about someone that was upset about our our pricing changes that we'd made. So I'll ask you this question, Shane. Do you want someone to join inplayLIVE for one month and then leave?

Shane Mercer [00:39:24]:

I I I would say no. I I don't think that benefits anyone in the community. I don't think it benefits that person either.

Andrew Pace [00:39:31]:

Yeah. Agreed. So we made a decision to move to annual pricing strictly not for the reason to sell more because we'll sell less.

Shane Mercer [00:39:40]:

I was gonna say, it's probably we'll sell less on on an annual pricing, sort of model.

Andrew Pace [00:39:45]:

Yeah. Yeah. Strictly to protect the community, that we've built. And now when you go over to our website and you see that, there's a couple things. The first is there there is a financing option, and depending on where you are, that financing can be interest free. If someone is concerned about the interest payments, we we have spoken as a team. We we would refund those interest payments, if there is any financing, that that does have interest associated with it for that person. But we made that change because of the fact that people that come in for one month don't benefit themselves or the community, when they do come in.

Andrew Pace [00:40:33]:

So as we lead into March and college basketball, people would be like, oh, I'm I'm gonna join for March Madness. I understand that. And, don't get me wrong. You know, I could just be like, hey. I'm happy to take his money for the month. It just doesn't help the next Shane Mercer that comes into our community for the right reasons to have, you know, this guy come into more or less whether it's exploiting strategies or exploiting the community or exploiting themselves thinking they're gonna get rich quick. It doesn't benefit anyone. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:41:01]:

On that note, as we as we head into to March for me, Shane, honestly, like, this is kinda when the college basketball season starts.

Shane Mercer [00:41:08]:

Hey. Hey. Wait a minute. Hold on. You've already been betting college basketball, and you've actually been done really well with it, Pace, when you have bet.

Andrew Pace [00:41:14]:

Not really.

Shane Mercer [00:41:15]:

You have bet it, though.

Andrew Pace [00:41:17]:

Yeah. I bet it. It's I haven't bet it. Okay. Alright. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:41:23]:

But you haven't tackled it.

Andrew Pace [00:41:24]:

This is when the season starts for me. Now is it a make or break thing for me on the year? Like, absolutely not. And I think some people, maybe yourself included, Shane, it it's like your bread and butter. Yeah. It never has been my bread and butter. There's certainly two seasons that I can look back on and go, wow. This was a real bankroll boost, a real profit boost like I hadn't seen before this time of year. Awesome stuff.

Andrew Pace [00:41:53]:

But at the same time, when I flip back to those times, the college basketball season started now for me then too. So this is when it starts for me. Buckle up. Motivations aside from Fresno and Temple are are not in debate. Teams are playing to win. Tournament season's upon us. First tournament starts this Sunday. So, yeah, it's just an exciting time.

Andrew Pace [00:42:18]:

You obviously wanna play responsibly. A lot of our listeners know what it is that we're doing or to an extent know what it is that that what that we're doing this time of year. Don't bend because of the time of year. Don't bend because you feel like I'm supposed to be betting a lot of college basketball right now. I'm not getting the numbers I hoped. I'm gonna take it anyways. Like, just don't do that stuff. Just stay in your lane, pick your spots, have fun.

Andrew Pace [00:42:51]:

And, again, like, if you told me college basketball never existed again for my betting career, I would I personally wouldn't care at all. I don't love it the way I love the NHL. I just don't. So, you know, that's me. That might not be you, but, just stay in your lane, stay disciplined, stay focused. And in the moment is always different. The theory the execution is always different than the theory. Execute responsibly, professionally, and like you, your life, and your savings and your income depend on it.

Andrew Pace [00:43:24]:

Because if you're listening to this podcast, that's probably the case for you or at least the intent long term. So goddamn act like it.

Shane Mercer [00:43:34]:

Wow. Great great advice there, Pace. I feel like you are kinda speaking to me there because, yeah, I call it basketball was my bread and butter. Absolutely. For, you know, a chunk of time there. Two seasons ago, it it was unbelievable for me, and and unbelievable sort of for my my trajectory as a sports bettor. And then last year, I think I probably talked about this before, but but last year, I went into it thinking like, alright. You know, this is it.

Shane Mercer [00:43:58]:

This is the time. And and, like, you were kinda getting at there. The numbers weren't there. Right? The books had adjusted from the previous year, and and it didn't end up, delivering for me in the way it had the previous year. And that's something I had to sort of work through myself. Now look, I ended up call, NBA and NHL last year were fantastic and kind of ended up making up for it, for me. And, yeah, my approach this year is very much, yeah, sort of with, you know, how could I maybe describe it? A sort of, cautious optimism, you know, where it's like, yes. I'm ready for this.

Shane Mercer [00:44:34]:

I'm I'm happy. I've been I've already been betting, a significant amount of college hoops. But, I also understand that there's a significant amount of volume, and there's no reason to stretch on anything. And if I don't make as much as I did two years ago on college hoops this year, then that's okay too. Because I'm I've got I'm, you know, I'm focusing on some other things as well, and, NHL and NBA are are there, you know, till till June. And and we really, really know how to crush both of both of those as well. So, yeah. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:45:07]:

It depends on on who you are out there. But but that's stuff that I had to sort of live and learn myself to kinda get to this

Andrew Pace [00:45:14]:

Yeah. And it can be a hard pill to swallow for some people. Like, that's that's a major reason why a certain individual, a type of person may not be even doing this anymore. They go, I can't do it anymore. This happened or that happened. Whereas when you have, like, an infinite mindset, you just take that punch. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:45:32]:

You dodge one. You take one. You throw a few back. You know? Sometimes it takes time to figure out how to throw a few back. And, you you know, it's all part of the journey and the process, and you gotta have fun doing it. Like, obviously, you guys see I'm not if you're watching on YouTube, I'm not at home. I'm not in my usual setup for these last two weeks. Like, I've been away with my family in Hawaii.

Andrew Pace [00:45:53]:

Didn't bet until, you know, that futures bet last week mid podcast. You can literally I'm looking down, placing it. But, yeah, it was on the stream on Saturday, kinda on and off. I only I didn't bet the college basketball.

Andrew Pace [00:46:06]:

huge college basketball day day for the team. play live. I just bet hockey, and, like, total time in in the day was, like, I don't know, maybe two hours, maybe. And, you know, I just had, like, one of those I had one of those days. It's like, jeez. I spent so much money on this trip. I looked at my balances, and I was like, trip paid for. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:46:28]:

Haha it was great hockey day.

Andrew Pace [00:46:31]:

Yeah. I'm I'm I'm a larger bettor than than most, but but the point is is, like, there's high ROI, low time commitment strategies that exist in almost every sport, almost every, not all. And, you know, if you can uncover those opportunities, doesn't have to be a huge time commitment. It can be a lot of fun, and you can kinda live your life. But it takes time to get to that point because if if you just listen to what I just said, and you're like, oh, sweet. You know, you just do two hours a day, and you print money. No. It's not how it works.

Andrew Pace [00:47:05]:

Right? You have to develop these skills. You have to learn them. You have to go through seasons where you go, hey. This isn't working anymore. I have to adapt. You know, I gotta gotta take this punch. I gotta recognize that things maybe weren't the same as they once were, but this is great right now. Will that be the same next year? Probably not, but doesn't mean that the next opportunity isn't right around the corner.

Andrew Pace [00:47:29]:

So once you've acquired those skills, you've done things for a long enough period of time, you know, when something changes to the extent that it does, it really doesn't phase you all that much. Like, Shane, you'll be that much more equipped for the next time that you go through that same experience that you just described, where you go, hey. You know, I I still have this, and I've actually learned that.

Shane Mercer [00:47:51]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:47:52]:

And that is just as good as this, or that's even better than this. Or that's pretty good, but I'm not gonna make the same amount of money that I did last year, and that's okay too.

Shane Mercer [00:48:02]:

Yeah. You know, being able to to sort of just be content with with what you're given, you know, and the opportunities you're presented by the book and just, you know, seizing those great opportunities. And if you don't get as many of them, then you don't get as many of them. But you don't wanna go digging for them or chasing them, you know, or try to make them where they don't exist. And and, you know, sometimes you just gotta learn that the hard way. Hopefully, you can learn it the easy way, but, you know, we we all learn in different ways. And so, anyway, base, we're just about done here. But when are you coming back? You're still in Hawaii.

Shane Mercer [00:48:37]:

You were there last week. You're there this week. When do you get back, and when do you get back to work?

Andrew Pace [00:48:42]:

Well, tomorrow's never promised. I always say that to Lace, and she gets mad at me for saying it, but it's true. Tomorrow's never promised. I will be home, safely provided that, things go as planned, by the time this airs. So, as you guys are listening to this, I'm I'm back home. So I'll I'll be back on stream on Thursday for sure. Yep. Back to our setup.

Andrew Pace [00:49:04]:

Back in the lab.

Shane Mercer [00:49:05]:

There we go. Good stuff. Look forward to seeing you back at your desk, even if you're not looking forward to it and you wanted to stay in Hawaii a little bit longer. Anyway, hope you enjoyed the trip, buddy. And, till next week, keep eating those books. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts.

Shane Mercer [00:49:27]:

Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code BEHINDTHELINES.