Episode 68

Steven Diano [00:00:00]:

Don't middle. Just bet the guy with the off number. Mhmm. Do what I say do what I call playing a half a middle. And people say to me, well, what do you mean playing a half a middle? I said, yeah. It's called a bet.

Shane Mercer [00:00:20]:

Pace, you gotta you gotta use that on a stream sometime, buddy. I hope Randy's out there listening somewhere right now. Hello, and welcome to another episode of behind the lines, the only podcast purifying the sports betting industry. Remember to like, download, subscribe, follow us on all the socials @ inplayLIVE. On today's show, chewing the fat with fats. I'm your host, Shane Mercer, as always joined by Andrew Pace, founder of inplayLIVE, a community of like minded sports bettors dedicated to long term success. And we've got Steven Diano joining us, but many professionals sports bettors simply know him as facts. He is on the board of the sports betting hall of fame.

Shane Mercer [00:01:13]:

He lived in Vegas and had a crew of runners for about 3 decades. He worked with the likes of Billy Walters before going it alone and becoming a legendary bettor in his own right. Fats, welcome to the show.

Steven Diano [00:01:27]:

Thank you. It's a little glad to be here. Happy to, have us chat with you guys.

Shane Mercer [00:01:33]:

Hey. We're really excited to have you on, but I just wanna kick this off by asking, Fats, what are you betting on these days?

Steven Diano [00:01:39]:

Very interesting that you bring that up because I am normally don't do anything with baseball. I swore off baseball almost 15, 20 years ago.

Shane Mercer [00:01:51]:

This story sounds very familiar already.

Steven Diano [00:01:54]:

I haven't done anything with baseball, and the the grind of football from, you know, preseason football in August till NCAA ends in April, I mean, you need a break. And I used to pretty much just kinda take the summers off and not bet anything and just relax. I would play poker and stuff like that in Vegas down to the world series and stuff, so that's how I'd kill my summers. But, last year, there was a guy that I was working with who does some stuff with baseball parleys. Some some correlations involved. And so I just messed with him. It didn't take that much of my time. It was just he would say what he wanted.

Steven Diano [00:02:38]:

I would go hunt down the best price, get us the best, best number to get on the payouts, and, and we grinded that out for a little profit during the year. So I was willing to do that again this year. And then, I got involved with somebody who's really good with the weather, and, so they were pretty accurate with, like, football weather and stuff like that. We had I had this I owed I stole them some money when April rolled around, like, from the end of football season. And that was baseball. I was getting ready to pretty much wrap up and not do anything. And, I said, you want me to send you this money? And he said, well, aren't you gonna do baseball? I said, what do you mean baseball? Well, you know, we get some weather stuff with the baseball too, and I said, okay. So so now I got roped into doing the baseball and but that's not that bad because I'll get the stuff once a day.

Steven Diano [00:03:42]:

I'll know what he gets. He'll even tell me the night before, and then I just gotta get the orders filled at the at the best numbers, and and he's winning. So, alright, so that sucked me in. And then I'm in a Twitter space, and a guy says to me, that Lazardow no runs 1st inning today. This is, like, the 2nd baseball or the season. And I said, why why should I do it? Because people tell me that all the time. Oh, you should go bet this or you should go bet that. But what he said to me was, he says, the guy hasn't given up a run-in the first inning.

Steven Diano [00:04:21]:

He's, like, 33 of his last 35 games he's pitched. No runs in the 1st inning. And I said, oh, that's kind of intriguing. So I said, okay. I watched it. I looked at it. I I verified, to a point I went back and looked up some statuses. Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:04:42]:

This guy is freaked out. I played him in the next week and the night so, like, couple of times in a row that Lazarda was holding up just like a champ. And then I said to myself, well, he can't be the only pitcher that's great coming out of the gate in the first inning. I've been handicapping pretty much every pitcher in the, in the National and American League and how they do in the first in. And then I'm trying to combine it with other factors and stuff like that to predict the yes or no runs in the first inning. And I it's very, very interesting. I've discover 1 of the things I've discovered is that it's very difficult to root in no run-in the 1st inning. Something always happens, and it's like the hardest route in the world rooting for no run-in the 1st inning.

Steven Diano [00:05:44]:

But I discovered something that's even harder to root for than no run-in the 1st inning. If you care to guess what that is.

Andrew Pace [00:05:52]:

Yes run?

Shane Mercer [00:05:53]:

Yes run. Yes run.

Steven Diano [00:05:54]:

Rooting for yes run-in the first inning is even harder than me for no run-in the first inning. So I've been

Andrew Pace [00:06:02]:

I knew it was coming.

Steven Diano [00:06:03]:

I've been dabbling with that and, not playing it big, but I've been may winning with that too. So between the weather and the parlays and that, I got 3 little things I'm doing. And when they all went on the same day, that's sweet. Usually, 1 wins and the other lose, you wanna make some for it. We had 1 week where they all lost everything all week long. It was the disaster. But I've dug back out of that, and I'm having a decent baseball so far. And and every day, the guy put and every day, the guy who mentions Lazaro, he says, don't forget, you owe me money for all the money you're making on these things.

Steven Diano [00:06:41]:

Oh, my. He wants he wants his he wants his, his cut for, all the extra work I did, but he did inspire me to to do the work. And, generally, I do not delve into the handicapping side of it. I know enough people who do all that, and my specialty is just getting down and getting down at the best number. So it's, but it's been a fun little adventure and it's, like, my little project, and it's working. So I'm happy with it.

Andrew Pace [00:07:13]:

Well, Steve, it sounds like if, you needed to negotiate the payout with that particular individual that recommended, you get on to this stuff, we could send your wife in to do that negotiating,

Andrew Pace [00:07:24]:

And she would do a fine job. Because if you guys are listening to this podcast right now and not watching it, we saw Steve lean back and need to tell his wife that he was not giving anything away as she was, questioning whether his edge was being divulged to the public there. So that was pretty cool.

Steven Diano [00:07:41]:

Well, the the part I didn't give away is where I think I have an edge versus the way the the the lines are being made versus how I'm handicapping it. And I think there's there's a discrepancy there that I'm taking advantage of in my mind, but I I can't verify that. Hoping I'm gonna talk to some people at BetFash that actually know how they make those lines to get a little extra insight into it.

Andrew Pace [00:08:11]:

1 of the things that's interesting about that market well, there's 2 things, and I think the first that's really an upside to a lot of the bettors that inplayLIVE is that you are gonna blend in really nicely. They say it's 1 of the most square markets you can wager on in the betting world. So if you have struggles with, account limitations and and different things like that, this can be a market that you can actually, exploit for longer term than some of the other ones. But the second thing about that market, which I freaking hate but there's probably upside to this too. I don't do a ton of pregame betting myself, but how much the line moves on a market like that is astronomical compared to say, obviously, like an NFL side, you know, pregame.

Steven Diano [00:08:50]:

Yeah. They Can.

Andrew Pace [00:08:51]:

So you can you can really move those lines. Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:08:54]:

You know, what's interesting though is you know, I have the baseball package, which I haven't subscribed to for until this year. And so now every night, you know, sometimes, I could have like, today, I happen to have no in 11 of the 15 games today, which is that that's high. Usually, it doesn't get near that much, but I've I've had as that much before. But so tonight as the games are on, I'll be I'll have all the games on and, like, I'll have all the channels. And then the first inning, I'm, like, flipping between channel pitch pitch pitch pitch for life. And then in 10 minutes, that's it. I'm out of action. I got no more action button.

Steven Diano [00:09:37]:

Or as soon as this

Andrew Pace [00:09:39]:

It's done. I do have to caveat all the listeners, guys. This is being recorded on a Monday, so you're gonna be able to see if if there's a bunch of no run first innings on Monday night, you'll have known how Steve did. So do not think, oh, I'm gonna go bet all the games tonight, and I'll I'll know that I'll cover off, those 11 games. That's a different day.

Steven Diano [00:10:00]:

Yeah. But you can go and check them. I can tell you what the 11 games were, actually.

Andrew Pace [00:10:07]:

Yeah. I this would this will air Wednesday, so we can verify how you did it.

Steven Diano [00:10:10]:

We'll run it tomorrow, and I'll get you there. Hold on a second. I'll just tell you the 4 games I don't have now, and then you'll know.

Andrew Pace [00:10:18]:

That's the easier way to do it.

Steven Diano [00:10:20]:

That'll be the easiest way to do it. Let me take a look here real quick. 4 games that I did not I have nothing on the Dodgers game, the Seattle game, the Miami game, the Texas game, and those in the other left, including the Colorado game with a total of 11a half. I went no no with the false 1.

Shane Mercer [00:10:46]:

You get it. Wow. That's great. I hope that pays well.

Steven Diano [00:10:54]:

So, we'll see how that works out.

Shane Mercer [00:10:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. And all of our our listeners, our audience can can see for themselves as well. And, love that you shared that, though, because the nerfy, your fee thing is a thing that we're doing within our community, and there's some guys that are calling it out, as well. Not not necessarily 11 plays in the day, but but they've been calling it with with some success. So that that's pretty awesome that that you're doing it as well.

Steven Diano [00:11:18]:

I'll tell you a couple of ways that you can lose these things. Like, I I had the other day, I had first 5 guys, 3 up, 3 down the first. Now we go to the bottom of the inning. Out, out, and then walk, walk, walk, hit by pitch. And then and then the next then the next guy got out real quick. And I had another a similar situation where I got 2 outs with a runner on 3rd and in the bottom of the first and a wild pitch, so the guy scores. And then the very next pitch, the guy just grounds out or something. Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:12:04]:

Stuff like that.

Andrew Pace [00:12:05]:

So you're missing one of the bad beats there. You're missing 1 of the bad beats there, Steve. You're missing the bock off..

Andrew Pace [00:12:14]:

If you go 5 up, 5 down, you get a triple or somehow a runner on 3rd, but sometimes these guys are pretty speedy in the 1st inning. Right? So you'll get a guy that's on 1st, a steal second, steals 3rd. And then if you lose to a bock, you can add that 1 to your hall of fame of bad beats.

Steven Diano [00:12:27]:

I got a hall of fame winner, though, in this. And I'm gonna tell you exactly what happened, and then you tell me how I possibly possibly managed to win the under and the the the no run-in the first inning. The game starts with the Miami, Miami Marlins. Single, single, double. First 3 batters of the game. Single, single, double, and I managed to win no run first inning. Not only then, I had started to sweat out the bottom of the end. Now explain to me how I got out of it.

Andrew Pace [00:13:06]:

So couple couple guesses. My first guess is gonna be that, on the double, or the first off the first way that wins is on the on the second single, he was thrown out at 3rd. And then on the double, he didn't run home. So you have second and third 1 out. Yeah. That would be my first guess.

Steven Diano [00:13:28]:

Runners are on 1st and second when the double is hit.

Shane Mercer [00:13:32]:

When the double's hit out at home?

Andrew Pace [00:13:37]:

Yeah. I mean, he'd have to it would have to be some sort of blue double where he got out at home and the guy didn't didn't go.

Steven Diano [00:13:42]:

What happened was it was the guy at second was waiting to see if the ball was gonna be caught, and it hit off the wall and came back. But the other outfielder was right there to get it off the carom off the wall and throw it in. But what happened was the batter and the second then the guy that was on first, they were still running. So the 1 guy got kinda caught up. So the batter was headed towards 2nd. The original the runner who had started at 2nd kinda wanted to stop at 3rd, but problem was there was a 3rd runner in between them. So he was kind of

Andrew Pace [00:14:26]:

already there.

Steven Diano [00:14:27]:

And by the time he he he didn't even make it close to the plate. He got out, and they screwed up the rest of the inning.

Andrew Pace [00:14:33]:

Oh, he had to go home. Mhmm.

Steven Diano [00:14:35]:

Oh, so you still at 2nd level 1. Because the runner and the batter had gone all the way to 2nd, and now you got the guy from 1st halfway between 2nd and 3rd. He's on his way to 3rd, and he sees the he catches up to the other guy. So that's basically how that

Andrew Pace [00:14:52]:

Steve, we we call we call that 1 for the good guys.

Steven Diano [00:14:55]:

Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:14:55]:

We call that 1 for the good guys. And it also it all it also speaks to volume. Right? When you're when you wager on sports as a professional, there is no circumstance that doesn't at some point show up in a way that you've won or lost a bet that seems so improbable or impossible. And, it's it's 1 of the it's 1 of the beauties and thrills of it too.

Steven Diano [00:15:15]:

Yeah. You you get all all different ways to see you win and lose, but you have to get to have the temperament to just laugh it off. And even when even when they all lose, it's pretty frustrating. Like, can I when you see I go 1 in 9 or 1 in 10, you'll you'll picture me sitting here with hatch throwing things at the TV?

Andrew Pace [00:15:41]:

Oh, come on, Steve. 11 6 up 6 downs and, to the moon from there. You gotta have that power of positive thinking.

Steven Diano [00:15:52]:

But you'll I don't really throw the stuff to the. You're you just, will be picturing me doing that. Okay? What you what what you really should be picturing is my wife wondering why I'm in sitting here all by myself cursed. Yeah. I think she knows. Yeah. I'll just sit there, and all of a sudden, you'll hear an MF out of me or something. Right.

Steven Diano [00:16:15]:

There you go. There you go.

Shane Mercer [00:16:17]:

I'm sure she'll know. You know you know 1 way, though, that you almost never lose? I mean, you've you'll you can lose, obviously, but you don't lose much is, is middling, fats. And I wanted to ask you about middling because you started betting at a very young age. I think you were a teenager. But how old were you when you started middling?

Steven Diano [00:16:37]:

That was the first I mean, when I started betting, it was I was just betting small 5, $10 a game, through a a son of a, you know, a friend of mine whose father was a bookmaker, so he booked all his friends. And then, for a neighbor of mine who bet, he kind of ex I heard him betting 1 time, and I hear him bet once, and then I hear him bet the opposite team. I said, what did you just bet the other team? And he's like, yeah. But it's a middle. And I was like, well, what do you mean a middle? And he told me he had 2 different lines and explained it to me. And I was like, wow. It's, like, 20 to 1. That's that's a pretty good deal.

Steven Diano [00:17:20]:

I gotta find more bookmakers. So and and so then I was on you know? I mean, I'm a high school kid. I'm out there looking for extra bookmakers now. And I found something

Shane Mercer [00:17:33]:

But give us a sense of of what year this is so that we sort of understand the betting language.

Steven Diano [00:17:38]:

In the eighties. This is in, Right. Like like, 90 There's no online.

Andrew Pace [00:17:43]:

This is no online middling.

Steven Diano [00:17:47]:

Between 1980 and 1982.

Shane Mercer [00:17:48]:

So you gotta go out and find books to middle against. Like, how do you go doing that in 1982?

Steven Diano [00:17:55]:

So you you just find somehow, I would find, I managed to find a I found a guy who was supposedly a bookmaker, would give me a line. This was during the NCAA tournament. I finally had a second bookmaker now, and he'd give me a line. And so I told my first well, look, I wanna bet higher now. I wanna bet, like like, 200 a game because I'm gonna, you know, I have another guy that I'm betting the other side with. So don't worry. I'll You told him that? And so and he was cool with that. He's fine.

Steven Diano [00:18:26]:

Except Woah. The part the part I didn't realize was when you win with 1 guy and you lose with the other guy and the guy you win with doesn't pay you, you've got a problem.

Shane Mercer [00:18:38]:

Oh. So

Steven Diano [00:18:39]:

I learned that lesson quick. So now but the the guy worked with me and said, look. Get the money. You know, he knew I would be honorable and pay it. And I was on a mission to get this money from this guy. And, apparently, he worked as a, like, behind the counter at a deli. And I went right to where he worked, and I was, you know, I was a teenager on fire. And I got the money out of the guy eventually, like, going there.

Steven Diano [00:19:07]:

I said, look. He said you can't come in here today. I said, well, fine. You pay me. I won't come in here again. You don't pay me, I'll be here every day for lunch or dinner or whatever till, till I get the money. And then it won't be a pretty sight for you. So, anyway, I got the, I got that.

Steven Diano [00:19:26]:

And then I so that taught me the pitfalls of that. And what I actually ended up learning from that experience was when you get a guy that deals you off numbers, don't meddle. Just bet the guy with the off number. Do what I say. Do what I call playing a half a middle. And people say to me, well, what do you mean playing a half a middle? I said, yeah. It's called the bet. Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:19:58]:

So I for the most part.

Shane Mercer [00:20:01]:

Pace, you gotta you gotta use that on a stream sometime, buddy. I hope Randy's out there listening somewhere right now.

Andrew Pace [00:20:09]:

Oh my god. No. No. So, Steve, sorry to cut you off, but we have a guy in our group who calls middles for us, and he is he's so good at what he does, but mentally, he cannot do these uncovered bets. So we'll always we'll always be like, guys, I'm not if we if we are, like, doing some sort of session of middling, we'll be like, guys, we're uncovering, we're uncovering this line. It's too good of a line. We have to just uncover it. And it doesn't matter what the bet is.

Andrew Pace [00:20:33]:

If if if we're not middling and we're just taking a straight bet on something and we get ahead, we always know that he's middled or arbed out of every single bet that he makes. Yeah. We're gonna play this clip for him and just say whats half a middle.

Steven Diano [00:20:45]:

Well, I'm gonna tell you something else. If you're if you're middling, if if your your goal is to be out there middling, and you use the expression, I have to close this game. Yep. You're you're bleeding money. Yep. Because there is no such thing as I have to close the game. I have a rule, and my rule is you can't make a good bet a better bet by making a bad bet.

Steven Diano [00:21:14]:

So, for example, if you lay 3 on a game where the line's 6, that's a good bet. Yep. Now if that game is painted 6 everywhere, taking 6 or laying 6, that's a bad bet because it's everywhere. You're not there's no edge there. Okay? Taking that 6 just because you laid were lucky enough to late 3 doesn't improve your EV or your value of your 3. It makes it worse. So you can't make a good bet, the minus 3, a better bet by making a bad bet, the plus 6. Now if the game's paid in 6 and you find a 7 or you can take 7a half or maybe 7a half minus 15 or 20, Okay.

Steven Diano [00:21:57]:

Now that's reasonable because each in other words, each bet, if you play a middle, each bet must be good enough to be a stand alone bet in and of itself. And then if it's not, then you're just bleeding money and you're giving money away. What you're doing and I'll give you another example. When you find a bookmaker who's got off lines, let's say he's giving you the line out of the the daily news or whatever newspaper you have. Okay? If you bet that guy and then you buy off and you try to middle, what's gonna end up hap what's gonna end up happening with that guy is, first of all, in the long run, you're definitely beating the guy. 2nd of all, there's only so much money that guy is willing to lose to you, and then he's gonna say no no mas. So what happens is by the time let's say the guy's cap is 10, 000. You have to beat him for 10, 000.

Steven Diano [00:22:50]:

He's gonna say, forget it. I'm done. Well, if you just bet the guy, then you're gonna get the full 10, 000 in your pocket. If you're middling, yeah, you might hit a couple of middles, but in the process of winning 10, 000 per men, you're gonna lose 5, 000 to Chris or Pinnacle or or somebody else who just giving money away. So when you got a guy who's got off lines like that, just bet. And don't ever and if you ever hear yourself, use the term, I gotta close that bet, then you ought to get call for a medic because you are bleeding. I'm serious.

Andrew Pace [00:23:28]:

Well, you know what? What you just described, I think, is a really good point. And 1 of the things that we talk about on this podcast is, obviously, the players being limited, for their sharp action, but then also, you know, the industry as a whole, the future of the industry, you know, who is limiting, who isn't limit, you know, who isn't limiting players, all all those types of things.

Steven Diano [00:23:47]:

Dont get me started on that type of thing.

Andrew Pace [00:23:49]:

Well, there's a there's a reason why a book like Pinnacle is actually teaching you how to middle, and it's because they're comfortable with gambling on their lines if the player isnt against the books who have their lines.

Andrew Pace [00:23:54]:

And just historically speaking just historically speaking, you're gonna lose on the pinnacle side, and you're gonna win on the MGM side. That's just the the nature of of what it is that we do. And while you as the player might be net up, you may have not took MGM for all that you could have because of, you know, the fact that you did bet out of all your all your lines somewhere else. And meanwhile, Pinnacle's sitting there going like, yeah. You made 5, 000. MGM lost 10, 000, but we also made 5, 000 as well in the process. And that was, like,

Steven Diano [00:24:31]:

You're just gifting that money away.

Andrew Pace [00:24:35]:

Yeah. Totally. But and but on the flip side to that is if you took that same money that I'm referencing being won at MGM and you were able to lose that 5, 000 to a book that isn't a Sharp book, there's upside to that loss that could actually create future wins, from the losses at that book, whereas losing it to the Sharp sportsbook doesn't necessarily have upside because you know they're gonna be there. So it's always an interesting sort of discussion in the whole in the whole thing.

Steven Diano [00:25:05]:

This is what I have to say to you. Go ahead. There's I'm because I there's actually gonna be a seminar about as to how to get the longevity with these books that limit you and stuff like that. And and part of the, you know, the spiel is you're gonna get, you know, you have to bet some square action or maybe lose in certain markets to them and stuff like that. And my theory is it's hard enough to win to delay an 11 to 10 straight up. Now on top of winning at 11 to 10, now you have to lose money to be able to win more money later. Playing it, it's too too much trouble. Just win, move on, they they throw you out.

Steven Diano [00:25:49]:

You just you you gotta make your efforts finding the next place to bet they throw you out. Bitch about it, complain about it, but just find another way way to get in. Find, more people that have outs and and, you know, and and do it that way. But trying to to people that say, oh, well, yeah, but I lose I lose to them and this and this and this, so I can still bet that and that. I I doubt seriously that they're making money half of those people say that. They just they're just happy that they're not limited, a lot of them. So I'm not sold on that theory. I gotta lose with this guy so I can keep playing with him.

Steven Diano [00:26:29]:

That's just amazing.

Andrew Pace [00:26:30]:

Well, keep playing, I don't think, is the right term that I would argue. My my my stance in in this in this discussion is losing upfront to win more long term. So not losing to keep forever. Losing upfront to win more long term. And I I I've I've been a huge testament to that in my betting career in in a massive way. I've come I mean, this is a lot different than the US landscape, but I'm in Canada here, and I've come out of sportsbooks where my first $1, 000 wager, not even some massive wager, got me limited in 1 1 swing. Right? So versus losing that $1, 000 wage or letting that account sit for potentially a year, and then going back to it, and you can have a leash well into the 5 figures.

Steven Diano [00:27:12]:

Yeah. It it I mean, there are there are certain things, but but the way this market is, like, you know, DraftKings and, DraftKings in particular, you know, they were when I first started when I moved to Michigan, I was, oh, great. I could play DraftKings now. I was playing with them straight through football season all the way into into January. And then the first 2 weeks of Jan January, college basketball started out really good that year. So I started winning in college basketball, and all of a sudden in the middle of January, boom, my limits were cut. I can bet, like, a 100 hours a game, 30 hours a game. And I wasn't even that I was a net winner.

Steven Diano [00:27:57]:

I think I lost most of football season there and just was up a little bit in basketball. I was overall net winner not that much, and they just shut me down because the basketball was doing so well.

Andrew Pace [00:28:14]:

That's too bad.

Steven Diano [00:28:15]:

I I don't understand. I mean, all the money that they what what what what here's what really annoys me now that you got me on this topic. I have to say this now. They sit there and say.

Steven Diano [00:28:25]:

We were gonna get here anyway at some point.

Steven Diano [00:28:28]:

I did a whole I got to do a whole podcast rant on this on, I forget his name now. On but it was on the the 1 at circuit. 1 of those nighttime, late night circuit purchase on their, live radio there in this sports book.

Andrew Pace [00:28:46]:

Right. The Visio or whatever. Yep.

Steven Diano [00:28:49]:

So what I what my issue is, they sit there constantly, and I tweet about this all the time whenever I see comments about it, about how they they they're advocates for responsible game, and they talk all about responsible game. And 1 of our favorite topics. Model their business model you know, and they say they're responsible because they have these these things in place where you can set your own limit. So you can go that's like telling the the alcoholic, look. You're in charge of pouring your own drinks tonight, and you know you have a problem. So. Okay? I mean, that that's that's what they're doing. Okay? And then the responsible gamblers, the ones that can manage their bankroll and aren't in any danger of becoming, degenerate gamblers or or losing their rent money or anything like that, They're telling them, you, we're gonna cut you.

Steven Diano [00:29:53]:

We're gonna we're gonna cut you down. We don't want you to get crazy. We we want you a little bit. We don't want you to have a bigger limit. So they're gonna cut down the responsible people, and then they sit there, and they'll let the irresponsible people bet whatever they want. And they target that with their advertising. I mean, all these ads where they they tell you this part bet this parlay I mean, you watch a baseball game now. They the announcers read off, hey, and you could get an action right now, and you can play this, this, and this in progress.

Steven Diano [00:30:28]:

Parlay it together, and then the other announcer goes, oh, wow. That'll pay, like, 4a half to 1 or something like that. And they're they're probably way juiced out worse than that. Probably, you ever get way better than that to begin with. And they're people don't know better, and they're just sucking people in. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:30:46]:

A lot

Steven Diano [00:30:46]:

They just want somebody else to tell them what to do. Then they don't they don't have to blame themselves for why they lose.

Andrew Pace [00:30:53]:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's ingrained into the actual broadcast themselves, like you mentioned there, which, is unfortunate because, you know, if there is regulation like, I I I'm not sure, Steve, how much you've followed some of this stuff, but there's been some regulation, specifically with ads and how they're presented in Ontario, which is the legalized state that has the DraftKings, FanDuel, etcetera, here in Canada. Legalized province, I should say. And they're they're now seeing some of this, but the what they try to regulate, you realize that they've legalized all this stuff, so it's gonna happen. But then it's like, what did you expect to happen? Because what they try to regulate doesn't address the very things that you just said. So you might not have Connor McDavid or, you know, Aaron Judge, you know, telling you where to bet anymore in Ontario, but then you flip on the broadcast that's covering the game, and, of course, they tell you exactly what you just mentioned. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:31:46]:

Yeah. And and and like you said, like, the they're giving you wagers where, like, the hold is, like, as high as any available. You know? It isn't like they're offering some straight straight bet advice or they they might, but it's it's it's uncommon.

Steven Diano [00:31:58]:

Or you log in and they have a parlay listed right when you log in.

Shane Mercer [00:32:02]:

Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:32:02]:

And then with the note that says, 13 120 people played this exact same parlay. Yeah. Would you like to do it too? Oh, yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:32:11]:

I mean, really?

Steven Diano [00:32:14]:

You know what though? We wanna book this for we wanna book we don't want we don't want you to bet more than a 100 hours, but we wanna book this for more. Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:32:22]:

Yeah. You know what? I I love that though because for me, when I read that, it's like an instant, like, oh, I'm not gonna bet any of that stuff because 13 other, you know, 1300 other people did it. Right? And they're you know, it's a great way to just sort of avoid the crowd.

Steven Diano [00:32:36]:

I've never even looked at those to chart them to see if any of them ever win.

Shane Mercer [00:32:40]:

Yeah. I don't follow it much either. You know, since we're on the topic, though, Fats, you know, you're somebody who spent 30 years in Vegas. You know, your whole life has has been focused on on sports betting or betting in some way, shape, or form. You know, what are your thoughts on on as you sort of have seen the regulation change and and sort of societal attitudes change towards betting, you know, how would you describe it now versus then, and and kinda where do you see the North American landscape going?

Steven Diano [00:33:11]:

Well, I'm hoping that eventually we're gonna be able to lobby together at some point to to restrict their ability to I mean, the whole country was excited. I mean, like, all the gamblers in the country were pretty excited about the idea of sports betting becoming legal throughout the the country. And we've experienced, you know, what what these sportsbooks are doing. Vegas casinos have done it in the past or similar to that as well. And we were thinking, like, oh, well, now you're gonna have these big companies. You'll be allowed to bet. Who what are they gonna care if you're betting, you know, nickels or dimes or something like that? And it's shocking to me that these places can't even just you know, it's fine. You wanna target your your suckers and let them bet 10 and 20, 000 a game? You could do that.

Steven Diano [00:34:08]:

But why wouldn't you want to let the sharp guys bet nickels nickels and dimes without because we're we're we get an you get an ounce that takes 500 or a 1, 000. I mean, we're not we're not proud. We'll we'll bet that. We're happy to bet it, and they can take the bet. They can move the line. They cannot move the line. If they don't wanna move the line, they can take a second bet. When they're where they wanna be, they move the line.

Steven Diano [00:34:31]:

And they move the line, and then they can let their whale come in and maybe bet the other side. And now they've taken advantage of of our information. So it it boggles my mind with all the money they spend on having Kevin Hart say the nonsense stuff he says in commercial, that that I'm paying him $10, 000, 000, they could take that $10, 000, 000 advertising fund and just say, anybody who wants to can bet nickels and dimes and use that $10, 000, 000 fund just to book those bets, and they'd be fine. And nobody be complaining anymore.

Andrew Pace [00:35:09]:

Right well I think you were mentioning before we hopped on the call here that you had, watched the Paris Smith episode that we did, and 1 of the things that she suggested was those very sportsbooks that you're referencing having this higher tier, for some of their their players that, gives them access to sharper lines like like the lines at Pinnacle, and allows them to keep playing in a certain capacity. Because 1 of the things that has always shocked me, and this is not pro player. Everything we do on this podcast tends to be pro player. But when you do limit a player and you clip their account, it baffles and completely boggles my mind that if I wanna go place a 10 leg parlor on 1 of these sites that has no EV at all, like, it's just your generic parlor that the, lottery style parlor. It boggles my mind that they don't take the bet then. They should still have systems in place to let you wager on certain things on their site. And what they'll tell you, Shane, I sent you this this screenshot recently of 1 of, the professionals at inplayLIVE that calls wagers for us. And it's the sports book contacting the player.

Andrew Pace [00:36:12]:

Explaining to the player that they are concerned with his level of activity. They're checking in on him to make sure that he's okay. Meanwhile, he's beat them for over 5 figures, and they proceed to tell him that they can no longer take his action because they're concerned about his style of play. But they encouraged him in the email to please go and play as much as he wants at their online casino. So it's like the most contradictory. Hey. I got Steve to laugh. That was 1 of my goals on this podcast. I got him to laugh.

Steven Diano [00:36:49]:

Oh, that's cool. That's cool.

Andrew Pace [00:36:50]:

But it like you should see the screenshot. I'll send it to you over Twitter when we're done here. But the screenshot is is shocking because in the same the same, you know, wave of their wand, they literally say we're concerned about your play. Please go play as much you want in the casino. It's just unbelievable. Right? Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:37:07]:

I guess what I'm getting at is if you're encouraging a player to go play in the casino, why would you clip their ability to hit a lottery parlay? That that's how they can get some of the money back if if they have the right player that is like, oh, jeez. Okay. They're letting me do this, but they're not letting me do that. I'll stay and try to hit 1 of these still. It it that that I'm describing a unique player, but it would exist.

Steven Diano [00:37:28]:

That's, you know, that's similar to me to I I, you know, I've I've been asked to, stop playing blackjack in a casino for guard counting. And Right. They'll tell you that you can play anything you want at the casino but blackjack. I mean, you wanna play the slots? Go ahead. Play the slots, but you can't can't play blackjack. So it's kinda, you know, along the same lines

Shane Mercer [00:37:55]:

Yeah. It is. Okay. So since we're back on on Vegas and the and the casino, again, Fats, you spent 30 years, you know, plus in Vegas. You started off you know, you were running a team of of of runners, for, I guess, what was known as the Philly crew, which is which is awesome because at inplayLIVE. We've got a little bit of a of a a Philly crew as well of sorts. And, you know, but but you had a Philly crew back then, and it was sort of through that crew and the work you were doing that kind of, brought you into the sphere of Billy Walters.

Shane Mercer [00:38:31]:

Talk to us a little bit about how you met him and and how that sort of, relationship grew.

Steven Diano [00:38:37]:

Well, that's a really great story because what happened with the Billy thing was he had been arrested and indicted, in the famous computer trial back up back in for which took place in 1992. And I'd just been in Vegas for a few years, and, you know, what Billy was on trial for, they were they weren't charging him with bookmaking. They originally thought they'd uncovered the largest bookmaking operation on the planet, and then they discovered that these guys, they weren't bookmaking, that they were betting. And so they the guy that I was working for, the head of the, you know, the the money and everything that was behind the Philly group, and all of us that were betting, our concern was, well, Billy loses this trial. And if this trial says that what Billy was doing is illegal and you can't do it anymore, well, we're out of business because that means we can't do it either because we're pretty much doing the same thing he was doing. We're just betting. So we shut basically, for the most part, shut down operations for the trial, and I was sent to the courthouse every day to sit down, take copious notes, and watch that trial. And, so I sat in the front row directly behind Billy Walters and his wife, Susan, and right by the main defense table and my notebook app.

Steven Diano [00:40:13]:

And I was would take notes and and on the breaks every now and then, you know, you see the guy there every day. Eventually, he said hello, and so we kinda got to know each other a little bit there during the trial and then try to bother him too much. And, then after the trial was over and they won, there was a big celebration party, which I went to, and I talked to him more. And, you know, we got to know he got to know my, you know, my background. And then the my boss, the businessman, as I referred to him, came out to Vegas to meet him, and they they eventually worked out a deal to start doing business. So then we were you know, became a mover for for Billy. So that that got us into that that that new level of of moving games. And, so then it was, like, about 2 years later where my guy had he had gotten a partner, and then they were debating whether they really wanted the expense of having Vegas.

Steven Diano [00:41:19]:

So they were thinking of splitting up and and kinda knocking out the Vegas thing. And Billy was like, can I get fats? I'll I'll take fats. So Billy Billy poached me right away, and I worked for him for a year, and he matched the deal that I had with them, and I worked for him for a year. Kinda that was kinda like the last piece of education I needed as far as knowing what because I've met so many other people and what they do and worked with other crews and stuff like that. And then to see the goat do what he did kinda was, like, the last piece of the puzzle. And then I would have stayed working with him again another year, and he wanted to change my package a little bit that he had matched to get me, and he wanted to cut it down just a little bit. And I was like, no. I'm same package, or I'm not gonna I'll just go on my own.

Steven Diano [00:42:18]:

And so I went on my own, and it was probably probably it was the time anyway to do it. And I started out slow and then built it up. I I would you know, I was train I mean, I was trained for example, let's say you go in a casino and, there's a football game that's 8 and blind's pretty much 7 everywhere. And let's say that 8 is good for 5 dimes or 10 dimes. And, but at this point, I'm maybe I'm only betting 2 dimes a game because I'm just kinda betting my own money now and putting it. So my DNA wouldn't allow me to just bet 2 times and allow them to move the line. I still had to bet it for 5, 000 or 10, 000. I can't just waste all that extra plus 8.

Steven Diano [00:43:10]:

So what I would do is I would bet in any way. But there were so many other groups that I had worked with over the years and that I, you know, I wanted to stay in touch with maybe so I could get information and stuff like that. So I would call them up. Afterwards, I got my 2 dimes that I needed, 3 dimes, whatever I was gonna bet. And I would say, hey. I got a an extra dime once so and so. Plus, hey. Could you use it? And they'd be like, yeah.

Steven Diano [00:43:35]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll take it. We'll take it. And call the next guy.

Steven Diano [00:43:39]:

Can you use a dime plus 8? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was how I built up and kept my relationship by over betting stuff I knew they would all want. And then Right. Giving it out as little gifts and drink it. And then, you know, then whenever I'm buying something or, you know, the phone's always open to call and ask, and that's how I maintained all my relationships over there. Cool.

Steven Diano [00:44:01]:

And, build up, you know, what I was able to build for myself.

Shane Mercer [00:44:05]:

That's pretty awesome that that you were sort of doing that and kind of working with other sports bettors in that way, maybe not with, like, an official capacity or sort of a, you know, any kind of, like, a contract or anything like that, but just that you guys had built that sort of camaraderie and friendship.

Steven Diano [00:44:23]:

Yeah. Well, they generally I also had a theory too. I used to call it the revolving door theory of gambling. And that basically was there there was no point in burning your bridges with people because the way this industry works, at some let's say you you have it out with somebody and you say, I'm never doing business with them again. At some point, some situation's gonna come up where you're probably gonna wanna do business with them or there's a situation where it's good for both parties. So I always said, you might as well maintain all your relationships as best you can because the revolving door theory of gambling says, eventually, you're gonna need each other at some point or find a common reason to work together. So might as well just keep everything as good as you can for as long as you can.

Andrew Pace [00:45:16]:

That's crazy. So when you're saying this was the early nineties that you bro branched off on your own. Was that correct?

Steven Diano [00:45:22]:

Well, let's see. Billy, the trial was 92. We worked we were moving for him, for a year or 2. I got married in 94. We were in April 94, and we were still moving for him through that season. And then that next season, so I guess it would have been, like, September of 94. That next football season was when my guys decided they were gonna just split up, and then there was the opportunity for me to to work for Billy. So

Andrew Pace [00:46:04]:

So fast forward to today, you know, when you walk through Las Vegas, obviously, the strip looks different, but also the betting landscape looks different. There's obviously the similarities, you know, the sport old school sportsbooks, the cash tickets, you know, the physical tickets, all that kind of stuff. But separately of the online betting landscape, they now have obviously all the kiosks. Right? Where you can obviously place a live wager, place a a pregame wager, whatever the whatever you wanna place without going to see someone and without having an account. So as a Canadian myself, you know, if I go down to Nevada and I go to place a wager, I've always been able to place a physical ticket, which was always a fun thing for me to do given that you could place a bet online. No problem. It was fun to actually have this sort of nostalgic physical ticket in your in your hands. But, you know, in these past, you know, sort of 4 years, you know, you'd be bombarded with these girls, you know, at the front saying, oh, we need you to sign up for MGM.

Andrew Pace [00:46:59]:

We need you to sign up for Caesars, all this kind of stuff, and They're giving you some sort of promo.

Steven Diano [00:47:02]:

Talking about to get players cards?

Andrew Pace [00:47:04]:

Yep players cards. Yes. But also now that sports betting is legalized to get you signed up for their online platform so that you could you could play. Right? And I'd say the same thing to every single 1 of them. Like, I could I couldn't sign up. I'd be like, jeez. You know? I'd love to be able to sign up, but I'm from Canada. They're like, okay.

Andrew Pace [00:47:20]:

III couldn't, but I could go over to the kiosk and use that online system and machine. Did you ever, in these last, you know, however many years since those came out, transition to using some of those types of things, or did you stick with that, like, sort of nineties model of being in person and having a team?

Steven Diano [00:47:37]:

Well, my only experience with the, kiosk system was after I moved to Michigan, there's a casino down the road, maybe, like, 30, 40 minutes from here, called Gun Lake. And I would have some, on Monday nights, I would have some leads for some college football totals. And so I would go over there to bet that we would bet them on the kiosk. You know, you'd bet, and they wouldn't move, and you'd bet it again. And you can can only bet limited amounts. You'd be Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:48:13]:

They're small. Yep.

Steven Diano [00:48:14]:

300, 300, 300, 300. I imagine I do just send somebody over there to do it. I did it once myself, and then I sent somebody over there every week. Sometimes you could get as much as, like I think we got, like, 18 bets for 300 a piece, before they moved the line or anything like that. But, eventually, then, you know, the following week or the week after that, somebody came out and said, if you wanna bet, you gotta go to the window, and they stopped it. And, really, the kiosks really aren't for the guys guys like us that wanna bet larger. They're they kiosks to their so that the guys like us, when we go to the window to make a bet, we don't have to stand in line behind the $10 parlay bettor. While he's, you know, picking just pick and then bet while he's standing there.

Steven Diano [00:49:07]:

He doesn't even know what he wants yet. So that's really what the the kiosks were invented for, I think

Shane Mercer [00:49:13]:

Right.

Steven Diano [00:49:14]:

To keep the congestion away from the line for the people that really wanna make significant bets or, you know, normal sized bets. Or, I guess, not normal necessarily, but, you know, nickels and dimes are gonna bet 500 a1000, which he has on the handle. They want that action at the windows so they can see it coming. And the kiosks are mostly for the $10 parley guy and the $20, $50, a $100 bettor. So, really, when guys like us go in there and start jamming the kiosks until Mhmm. They figure out we we got a game 30 time. You know, we're we're we're really hitting the crime there. We should deal with that.

Shane Mercer [00:49:56]:

It's it's interesting when you say guys like us, and I I wanna sort of, you know you know, tailor this question with sort of Yeah.

Steven Diano [00:50:02]:

I'll put both of you clowns over there. Right.

Shane Mercer [00:50:04]:

Yeah. Guys like But when you talk about guys like us

Steven Diano [00:50:07]:

Don't think I think you're not a part of this.

Shane Mercer [00:50:11]:

No. Well, I I wanna ask about that, though, because, you know, I'm somebody who probably, you know, a few years ago, would have thought, you know, the sharps. Right? And, you know, in in my conversation with with average guys who who bet, you know, their $10 parlay bettors type of type of thing. Right? And, like, outside of the inplayLIVE community, and they'll be like, oh, the sharps are on this. The sharps are on that. The sharps are doing this. You know? Do you when you talk about, you know, guys like us and the Sharps, you know, it it sort of paints this picture of, like, a small group of sports bettors who work together and and move the lines. Do you feel like you were among a group like that?

Steven Diano [00:50:50]:

I'm not not necessarily that I'm among a group like that, but I'm in a group that is capable of taking advantage of that system, so to speak. Yeah. In other words, I'm sharp enough to know that this is, you know, how you could game that system or, you know, right or wrong, I know that that you could do that. So when I say guys like us, I'm talking about guys that know that you can get away with maybe pumping the same $300 bet at times before they figure it out. When if you walked up to the window and asked for 3, 000, you might not get that. So, that's guys like us.

Shane Mercer [00:51:33]:

Well, I'm kind of asking it though because you do belong to this, sports betting hall of fame. You're on the board of Directors.

Steven Diano [00:51:44]:

Im not in the hall of fame.

Shane Mercer [00:51:44]:

Your on the board.

Steven Diano [00:51:44]:

I'm just on the on the board of directors.

Shane Mercer [00:51:47]:

Right. And so I wanna know because that is, you know, the board of directors and anybody affiliated with that, I would put in a group of, you know, guys like us. Right? This sort of sharp bettors. What do you do as part of the sports betting hall of fame on the board of directors? How does that work? And, you know, how would Pace get in there if we wanted to to get him in there?

Steven Diano [00:52:09]:

That's funny. I get I get the trolled a lot on the, in the Twitter spaces that I hang out in, a lot about the the guy who'll pick couple winners in a row and they'll say, Fats, can you get him into the sports team? I I've I've got my my the main guy is is the guy that I I made a bet with that he claimed he he could pick 60% in the NFL. So this is, like, after week 4. So there's basically 14 weeks left, and we were using the Circa contest lines. So he had to pick 5 games a week, And he had a bet he had to go 60%. Okay. And I said, you know, I called it the impossible bet. There's no way you're gonna win it.

Steven Diano [00:53:03]:

There's no way you're picking 60%. He did it. 61.4%. And now he all he he talks about is how he's in the top 3% of the handicappers in the country, and, and that I'm using my influence to blackball him from getting into the Hall of Fame. Uh-huh. And and even even though what he did was legendary, you know, because he did the impossible bet. And, so, I mean, I assume it's all in fun, but sometimes he sounds pretty serious about it. But,

Shane Mercer [00:53:42]:

And he did this for 1 season?

Steven Diano [00:53:44]:

He he needs to build his resume. He needs to do that about 15 more years in a row, and then

Shane Mercer [00:53:49]:

Okay.

Steven Diano [00:53:49]:

Then then we'll then we'll talk. But the way the the way the thing is set up, Spanky wanted to get this thing started. And so he was trying to find a diversified group of people, sports bettors, bookmakers, maybe a few media guys, and people that knew people and that were familiar with the whole landscape. And he tried to form that committee, and then we had criteria for what a a member, you know, somebody in the hall of fame should have done in their career or what type of a career or whatever end, and then he set up the system. And the way the system works is we'll nominate. Each member can nominate up to, like, 5 people at the beginning of a an induction season. And then they take all those nominations that everybody gets, and whoever got the what any whatever person got the most nominations, that'll be the the first person that gets voted on. Then the next most will be the next person that gets voted on.

Steven Diano [00:55:01]:

And then you have to pass. You have to get 75% of the voting membership to to get in. Now that's not as hard to do now because this is only our 2nd year, so we've only inducted 2 classes if we can't push through our first 10 or 20 that we come up with, but it's gonna be pretty tough altogether.

Shane Mercer [00:55:27]:

Right.

Steven Diano [00:55:28]:

Right. And we we do 5 live people and 5 people who are no longer with us Oh. Each year. So we have to

Andrew Pace [00:55:36]:

Oh, okay.

Steven Diano [00:55:37]:

Try to put put in a class of 10, and, naturally, the Billy Walters was in the the, you know, was the cream of the first class, obviously. And now the people that get in, they become members of the board after that, so our board grows to the number of votes we have.

Andrew Pace [00:55:59]:

Grows as well.

Steven Diano [00:56:00]:

Grows well.

Andrew Pace [00:56:02]:

For those of you that don't know what is being referenced right now, it's actually a really cool thing to check out. I mean, Vegas is always evolving, and I find that there's always that new thing in Vegas and that new spot and that new hangout and the new biggest club and, you know, the list goes on and on. But Circa Sportsbook in Vegas has, in my opinion, the absolute coolest and best sportsbook. They're also I I correct me if I'm wrong. They're the only sportsbook that you can play on online in Nevada where your account won't get clipped. And they have the sports gambling hall of fame there right next to their sports book with these beautiful plaque in this little room that shows the, like, these historic bettors that Steve or Fats here is referencing. And then above it, they have, Vizzy the VSiN studio where they shoot a lot of content that then gets aired on ESPN, and, they picked up my living room, on 1 of their episodes to talk about, my sports betting setup on on 1 of their shows, which I thought was really, really cool. But then separately of that, that's just a really cool sight and scene.

Andrew Pace [00:57:04]:

So if you guys like sports betting, you ever check out Nevada, Vegas for anything, I highly recommend you go down to downtown Vegas, Fremont Street. And everything there is obviously a little bit older, but there is this real gem there, Circus Sportsbook, where Bet Bash is held, that you can see this stuff. And then they have the swim up, or the the the the stadium swim, which is the outdoor sports book and, sports bar pool party, which is just a it's just a really cool fun thing and a and a great way to enjoy a game. So we we were there, this year for that was actually my first time going there. It was just, a couple of months ago, and and it's really cool to see. And that's where that sports gambling hall of fame is.

Steven Diano [00:57:44]:

And, another note about that, because we've been we made, BetBash circa the center of BetBash, and Derek Steven, he's a sports veteran himself, so he's a big fan. He he, you know, he wants he loves having us there. He loves, you know, hosting this event on his property. Promotes his sports book and everything like that. But they they offer when we came up with the idea for the Sports gambling hall of fame, they said, you know what? We got this section. We can build a little section right in our court where we can actually put the plaques for the hall of fame, and they made a nice little hall of fame room where you can go in and see the plaques for the people that have that have been nominated. And then the final event of BetBash is a banquet now on the fry the left for last Friday night, and that's the induction ceremony. Now last year was our 1st induction ceremony where we inducted our 1st class.

Steven Diano [00:58:50]:

And now for me, I mean, I knew a lot of the people there. I knew all the inductees. I knew that the, you know, the the the presenters and the the other sharp, famous guys that are probably gonna be future hall of famers that we're gonna get there in extra classes and, you know, future classes. But I wanna tell you something. He I even though I know all these guys, like, you know, well, hey. How are you doing? Just being present in that room with all those people at 1 time, the amount of sports betting knowledge and sports betting expertise and, and careers of sports bettors that was all in that 1 room at 1 time. It was, like, breathtaking. It was like I mean, I guess it's like if you're, you know, you're at a concert with your favorite, you know, your favorite, and you're, like, got, like, right on stage, and maybe you got a backdoor pass or something like that.

Steven Diano [00:59:57]:

I mean, you were right there. I mean, everybody I talked to, the electricity in the room, just the the the sheer presence that was in the room was just was just unbelievable. And all the people that were there were saying the same thing. That was really a big experience and, something that I'm never gonna forget. Now, hopefully, we'll have well, most of them will be back for this year, the not the 2nd class, you know, induct the 2nd class, and we'll have that same electricity in the in the room again. And kudos to Spanky. I'm the induction ceremony that he put on, I mean, he had a professional videographer that had made videos to introduce each person and, videos that of people giving some testimonials that played for each person that came up. And then we had somebody that went up to speak, and it was time right for the dinner and everything.

Steven Diano [01:00:59]:

And I'm telling you, it was as good as any like, when you watch, like, the s b's or you watch the Academy Awards or any other show and they coordinate it, it was coordinated that well and filmed that I I'm shocked ESPN is it wouldn't be interested in taking that induction ceremony and playing it maybe as part of a 30 for 30 or something like that, just playing the entire, induction ceremony as it as it took place because it was like a regular professional induction event.

Shane Mercer [01:01:40]:

Cool. That sounds so awesome.

Steven Diano [01:01:42]:

It was just great. You guys were there. Right?

Andrew Pace [01:01:46]:

No. I didn't attend last year. No. I'm excited I'm excited about this year coming up, though. It should be a ton of fun.

Steven Diano [01:01:52]:

Ton of fun.

Andrew Pace [01:01:57]:

Oh, there you go. Hey. Well, hey. Ton of fun, the legend himself. A lot of the things that we've done, you know, have have been like, let's not be forward facing. Let's not be at conferences. Let's stay under the radar. And and, you know, until you actually learn what something is, you might have a perception of what that is.

Andrew Pace [01:02:16]:

And sometimes I just picture all these sportsbooks together talking about, like, you know, what's next for them with, some of their practices and things like that. And, obviously, BetBash is the complete opposite of that. But when I hear about a betting conference, that was my perception of it. Now that I've learned what it is, I'm I'm really excited about it. It should be a lot of fun.

Steven Diano [01:02:35]:

I mean, the way the way Spanky has it set up with the now he's got all these seminars. He put his seminar schedule out the other day, and there's some really great seminars. And you have to pick I mean, there's, like, 6 rounds and, like, 5 choices in each round. So you get to go to 6 seminars, but you have to pick from 5 for each, time slot that there is. And there's some really, really good things from, you know, every topic you can really think of. I he really didn't leave any stones uncovered. And so he he did a phenomenal job with that. And then 1 1 of the other events that's a real big event that's done, the first day is it's called speed networking

Andrew Pace [01:03:25]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Diano [01:03:26]:

Where everybody fills out a form of the type of people they're looking to network with or meet or talk to, and then they run it through an algorithm. And and it's just like speed dating, but with meeting people, sports betting people. And, all it takes to, first of all, you got an open bar every night at BetBash. There's there's food.

Shane Mercer [01:03:52]:

Alright. I'm there. We I'm done.

Steven Diano [01:03:54]:

So There's food. There's there's a there's a watch party with food. I think there's another there's gonna be when there's the the banquets and the seminars or when there's the seminars and the and stuff like that, there's gonna be a lunch spread, some type of lunch spread. So you're gonna eat. You're gonna you're gonna be able to drink every night. And that I mean, for the $1, 000 and change you've spent for for the ticket, you're you can a lot of people can get their money's worth just out of the food and the and the beer, you know, and food and the and the and the alcohol. But all it takes for you to get your money's worth is to make 1 good contact Yeah. Out of a plethora of sports enthusiasts and professional sports bettors or learn just 1 thing that you didn't know that could tweak what you're doing to make what you're doing that much stronger.

Steven Diano [01:04:57]:

Gonna pay for that BetBash ticket 1, 000 you know, 100 of times over Yeah. In the long run. It's just, it's just crazy. And, it's not something any any sports bettor who has aspirations to to be successful at should ever never miss. You can only learn, learn, learn. And everybody's really eager to help and and to see, you know, answer your questions too, stuff like that. Everybody's really approachable. So

Shane Mercer [01:05:29]:

It it sounds like an incredible event, to attend. Absolutely. A 100%. And since you're on that topic of, you know, sports bettors and success and that kind of thing, you know, we've got a lot of, sports bettors in our community. A lot of them at different points in their in their sports betting journey. Some of them just getting started. Some of them sort of in the middle and, you know, they they've they've developed, you know, a way to to make money over time. And we've and there's people, you know, like Pace on his level who have been doing it for for several years, decades even, and, you know, with with great success and and are helping others and teaching others.

Shane Mercer [01:06:00]:

So, you know, since we've got somebody with your kind of experience here, I would be remiss not to ask you, what advice would you give to a sports bettor that's in the early stages of of trying to be successful at this and trying to be successful long term?

Steven Diano [01:06:15]:

Don't quit your day job yet. Good 1.

Andrew Pace [01:06:19]:

Very good 1.

Steven Diano [01:06:20]:

That's the that's the first thing. If you're gonna end up doing it full time, you know, keep doing your day job. Kinda try and work it in. If you if you're getting to the point where you think you can maintain it and then seriously overcome, you know, what you would make from your regular job. Because, like, I say the same thing to poker players. My first wife, she was a very good poker player, and she would go out and play, you know, small cash games. And she'd win most of the time. And then she was like, yeah.

Steven Diano [01:06:58]:

I wanna this is what I wanna do. And I was like, you know, there's a difference between like because she never had to worry, like, if she went broke, she'd just take more money out of her pocket. So so it's always it was always a reload. Never had to worry about a reload or anything like that. I said there's a big difference when you can play poker and just play poker, and you don't have to worry about whether you win or lose. It's a lot easier to win than if you have to play poker, and you're trying to make the rent money. The the win or loss is gonna be whether or not you have the rent money or not. It adds a whole different level of pressure.

Steven Diano [01:07:35]:

So when you're betting sports, that's the same thing. If it's you're gonna be playing sports to make the rent money, that that's a lot harder to do than if you're playing sports to make some money, but you already have a day job that covers all those expenses. So you really have to be sure that it's something you can jump into and do, before you quit that day job.

Shane Mercer [01:08:03]:

Love it. Great piece of advice there. Pace, I'm not quitting my day job. Not not yet. No. I think that's, that's fantastic advice for anyone out there. You know, absolutely.

Steven Diano [01:08:16]:

Also, try not to lose. Oh, hey. Hey. You know, we'll we'll

Shane Mercer [01:08:19]:

do our best. We'll do our best.

Andrew Pace [01:08:21]:

But you know you know, a really, a really interesting just piece of information and, again, this is gonna be much more towards, like, a recreational player. But you touched on the 61% guy. You know, the guy that's trying to get inducted into the hall of fame. You threw out the challenge. You hit it 61%. You got a guy like yourself 61.

Steven Diano [01:08:38]:

Excuse me. Every time I refer to it, 61%, I get corrected at 61.4%.

Andrew Pace [01:08:46]:

Okay. So, hopefully, he's listening and is happy that you corrected him on his behalf. But 61.4%. Right? That's like an astronomical hit rate, for, like, a pregame handicapper, and this was specifically referenced to the NFL. For anyone that's, you know, looking to get into this more seriously, you have to really understand that that is an unheard of percentage, number 1. It's likely not gonna transcend beyond the NFL. It's likely not gonna be a year long thing. And you have to manage, you know, the the 40%, the other side of it.

Andrew Pace [01:09:18]:

And, that 40%, it isn't like, 0II, you know, I I hit 6 and I miss 4, and then I hit 6 and I miss 4, and it just repeats like that. You know, obviously, you're gonna have some significant losing runs.

Steven Diano [01:09:28]:

Well, it's funny You have to be able to put it that way. Perspective. Because when a whole bet was being, discussed, his whole attitude was, well, all I have to do is go 3 and 2 every week. How hard is that? That that that was his whole attitude, and we laughed. We mocked, and then we ate crow.

Andrew Pace [01:09:56]:

But, again, the perspective of it, forget about him doing it. It's the percentage of losses that you have on a regular basis as a winning player, and this is referencing, like, your typical minus 110 line. You know, we just had Adam on who's talking about being a 30% strike rate bettor. Right? So what you wager on, how you wager on it, and managing, you know, that 40% or higher, in most cases, it's gonna be higher. Those losses is is everything. Right? It's about survival, not about hitting for you know? It's not about hitting once. It's about surviving over the long run.

Steven Diano [01:10:28]:

Yeah. It's you have to can win consistently, you know, as you go along and just, you know, rely on some you know, big the big the big hit here and there.

Shane Mercer [01:10:41]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Steven Diano [01:10:42]:

Those are nice when they come in, but when you catch something like that, you can't rely on that or depend on that. You have to have a a steady growth rate or something like that. Now this is I get asked this a lot. People are asked me, well, what's my winning percentage? And what's my ROI? Stuff like that. And I don't know if it's because I'm old school. And I I have a degree in math, so it's not like I couldn't try to figure that out. I don't even think that stuff is people get too I think people get too, like, focused on that and not focused on winning. Like, for example, if I bet a game and, you know, let's say I'm trying to bet, a particular sport that I'm handicapping or betting.

Steven Diano [01:11:32]:

I'm trying to bet, you know, an average of, like, 2, like, 3 times a game or 2 times a game. And I can get a better number than the number I was trying to get. I don't have a problem going to 4 dimes or or 5 dimes at at the better number because that's just added value. And my theory is, well, those well, people say, well, yeah. Then if you bet 4 on that, then that's extra units you bet or I mean, I don't I don't care about you. I'm not paying attention to that because I look at it as you take over the course of a season all the times that I bet 5, 000 when I was looking to bet 3, 000, take all those $5, 000 bets and put them in 1 pile, and I'll probably still have the same win rate or better than I would have in all the 4, 000 bets or the 3, 000 bets. But to sit there every day and break it down, okay. Well, this 1 was 5 units.

Steven Diano [01:12:31]:

This was 3 units, and this, and let me see what my return on investment was. All I know is that at the end of the week and I I always had more money than I started with in the long run. So that's my return on investment is I'm here, and the bills are paid, and, I'm still making money. Right.

Andrew Pace [01:12:48]:

And you're not doing it

Steven Diano [01:12:50]:

for them. You're doing you're

Andrew Pace [01:12:51]:

doing it for yourself. Right?

Steven Diano [01:12:53]:

What's that?

Andrew Pace [01:12:54]:

You're you're doing it for yourself. Like, an ROI that you're gonna go calculate, it sounds like it's for them, not for you. Like,

Steven Diano [01:13:01]:

you know, you're doing it for yourself. I'll tell people that you're focusing on the wrong thing. That's not important. But important thing is that you're winning, and you're and you're and you're collecting your money every week. That's another big, I mean, you gotta make sure you can collect when you work there.

Andrew Pace [01:13:19]:

Because when You know what, though, Steve? I think that to some bettors, what you just said wouldn't be the best advice for them specifically. You're talking about your individual situation and what you focus on. Okay. Are the bills paid? Do I have more money at the end of the week than I had before? Check. Check. Check. Done. For someone else that maybe has some bad habits that the money isn't there at the end of the week, they do need to actually go look at things a little bit more specifically and get a little bit more mindful

Steven Diano [01:13:42]:

of what they're doing. I I don't disagree with that, but what I'm saying is that if that becomes their primary focus like, they should their primary focus should always be what numbers they're betting at when they're betting. Even if they're even if, like, they could bet more because it's a better number, but they're only betting their 2 units that they're normally playing, that that's okay. That's not the end of the world. I mean, I consider it a capital grind.

Shane Mercer [01:14:09]:

Not the end of the world, but, you know, hey. Death sentence for it.

Steven Diano [01:14:12]:

It should be mine, Barb. But they get more they're focused on, you know, the win then if they're betting the same amount on every game, they're focused on, you know, what their win loss record If they're betting maybe different amounts and they're breaking the units, and they're working on what their their return on investment is, What they wanna be focused on is if the stuff they're betting if they're they're constantly betting with good CLV or, you know, good numbers or they're getting the best of what they're betting or whatever amount that they're betting it at. That should be good enough that the the long run will take care of, as long as they're betting within their within their meat, not over their head.

Shane Mercer [01:14:58]:

Yeah. It's great advice. Fats, you mentioned earlier, I think, that people can DM you, that your DMs are open. Where can people find you? How can they contact you? If I I want some advice on a bet? How can I reach out to you?

Steven Diano [01:15:12]:

Alright. My, Twitter handle is at real_fats, which is in the bottom corner there of the screen. And, I don't block anybody. I'd rather argue with you than block you. If you don't if you don't believe me, you can ask GRP wins. And if you and if you and Philly Godfather is another 1. But, I'd rather just argue the good fight and because what I say, as far as I'm concerned, it makes sense, and I have legitimate sound arguments. So I'm happy to express my opinion, you know, till they get to the point where, best thing they can think of to try to prove me wrong is they say, well, yeah, but you're fat.

Steven Diano [01:16:03]:

So when you get the argument down to that point, it's I call that a win. But, if you DM me, do not DM me to ask for picks. I do not give out picks. I'm not not that there's occasions where I wouldn't say I I'll tell you. I might tell you I bet on something. But in general, I'm not I'm not trying to tell you how to fix. I'm trying to just give you helpful advice with, you know, strategies or or how to bet certain things. And the main reason I don't like to give out picks is because, a lot of times, the number I bet the game at isn't available anymore.

Steven Diano [01:16:45]:

So and the number of the games at now, I wouldn't bet that game at. So for me to tell you, I bet that game and have you go bet it at a number that I wouldn't bet it at now, I'm not doing you any favor. And even though it's the same game and it still has to win, I'm not doing you any favors because the difference in the line, whether it's juice on money line or a half a point, it's gonna be the difference in the long run. You may not win, and I may still win. And so that that's why I I don't wanna give out games. Although, I gotta tell you, there was 1, situation. I did a I was talking to a friend of mine, who who I work with and discuss games with Steve Gold, and he's on Twitter. And, we were talking about there was a situation.

Steven Diano [01:17:45]:

It was with the Houston Texans, and 2 of their it was really only 1 of their wide receivers was was gonna be healthy that week. And I forget which 1 of them it was, but might have been Nico Collins. I think it was Nico Collins that week. And the other 2 were kinda, like, a little empty. And there's a prop that was for what wide receiver scores will have the most receiving yards for the Sunday game. And, you know, usually, all your your, like, your Tyreek Hills and

Shane Mercer [01:18:26]:

Your stars.

Steven Diano [01:18:27]:

So those they're all, you know, you know, 5 to 1 or they're all short price. And I saw Nico Collins was, like, like, 50 to 1 or something like that or 50 something to 1. And the way Stroud was throwing the ball to this guy I mean, he's in that ceiling range where he could get up there with the big trees. And so I did a podcast. I think I was trying to I was trying to mock GRP, a little bit with, with him and his, his prop expertise. So I said, I'm gonna so I started a space, and I I was, you know, gonna, you know, give GRP the business a little bit in the space part of the plan. And I said, I'm gonna release a a prop pick today, and we're gonna let self proclaimed expert prop expert GRP wins. We're gonna let him, evaluate the pick and give us his opinion.

Steven Diano [01:19:32]:

And the pick I released was Nico Collins at, like, 50 something to 1

Andrew Pace [01:19:36]:

No. This is Legendary.

Steven Diano [01:19:40]:

That does doesn't he come in? He comes in. I mean, I I had I had a couple hundred on it. I picked up, like, 13, 000 on it.

Shane Mercer [01:19:48]:

Amazing.

Steven Diano [01:19:49]:

It was it it came in. Well, the next week, every week, who do you got this week? Who do you got this week? Who do you got this week? I opened up a can of worms. So, anyway, that was the that was the that was the highlight of, last year. Then the funny part was GRP wins always like, every now and then, I'll express an opinion on something. He was always quick to jump on these, like, especially the loss. Well, I've only seen Fats give out 3 picks or 4 picks, And all the time, he's been on Twitter, and he's 1 in 4. So now I made up for it. I gave out a 55 to function.

Shane Mercer [01:20:29]:

You're you're good for another 50 picks.

Steven Diano [01:20:32]:

Yeah. And they and I've come good for the next 20 picks.

Shane Mercer [01:20:35]:

There you go. Awesome. Well, for everybody out there, if you guys wanna engage with fats, you wanna fight with fats on Twitter, there he's at at real fats. Hit him up, argue with him, have some fun, and, you know, maybe you'll learn a thing or 2 along the way.

Steven Diano [01:20:47]:

I Don't don't encourage that. That. I mean, I I do it. You know?

Andrew Pace [01:20:52]:

Don't worry. Our our group isn't coming over picks.

Shane Mercer [01:20:54]:

That's not how we're Don't worry about that. But they might come to you for some advice, and, you know, I'm sure you've got you've got plenty of that to share with them. But I think we'll leave it at that for this week. So, Fats, I just wanna say thank you so much for coming on the show. We've really appreciated you, sharing your expertise, your knowledge, and just, sharing all the advice that that you gave us and and to our audience. So so thanks so much, and, you know, we'd love to meet you in person at some point in the future. Hopefully, we get a chance. Maybe we'll get you back on

Steven Diano [01:21:23]:

If youre at Bet Bash. This year. We'll we should see each other there Yeah. If you guys make the trip. And, speaking of Bet Bash, you know, it's about a month away. I don't know if you have time to squeeze Spanky on, but it might not be a bad idea to get him on and get some more information.

Shane Mercer [01:21:42]:

I think we would love to have Spanky on the show. Absolutely.

Andrew Pace [01:21:47]:

Spanky is, being scheduled, as we as we speak. He's him and I have been back and forth in the last couple days, so it'd be really excited to get a really exciting to get him on.

Steven Diano [01:21:56]:

I'll tell him to make sure he goes on. Awesome.

Shane Mercer [01:21:59]:

Awesome. Appreciate that.

Shane Mercer [01:22:02]:

Appreciate that, Fats. Any, you know, any any kind of push that we can get, we'll we'll take it. But, we'll leave it at that for the week, Fats. Again, welcome back on the show anytime. We'd love to have you back. And, yeah, if we can meet in person, amazing.

Steven Diano [01:22:14]:

Just just you know where to find me. You know where to find me.

Shane Mercer [01:22:16]:

On Twitter. Alright. There we go. Pace, bats, and all the sports bettors around the world till next week. Keep beating those books. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of behind the lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts.

Shane Mercer [01:22:32]:

Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code behind the lines.