Episode 83

Travis Geiger [00:00:00]:

He placed it a year ago, and he had a great story too. He was a truck driver, got in an accident, was laying around, wasn't taking disability, but wanted to hit this was placed in parlays to hope to buy a new truck and a place for his grandma. So he was able to get a new truck, and I think get his grandma the nice place, and we're still friends. He's our chief parlay officer now, Mark Juan.

Shane Mercer [00:00:18]:

A chief parlay officer. Wow. What a role.

Andrew Pace [00:00:20]:

What a Position.

Shane Mercer [00:00:34]:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Behind the Lines, a podcast purifying the sports betting industry and powered by Pinnacle, the number one sports book that doesn't limit winners. Remember to like, download, subscribe, and follow us on all the socials @inplayLIVE. I'm your host, Shane Mercer. That guy over there, Andrew Pace, the founder of inplayLIVE, a community of like minded sports bettors dedicated to long term success. On today's show, we'll talk a little US election, just a little, some NBA props that are off the board, thanks to Johntae Porter, and we've got the chief experience officer from WagerWire coming on in a little bit. We'll get to that great interview. He was awesome, Pase. But, before we get to it, I wanna bring this up.

Shane Mercer [00:01:16]:

And, Pace, I know you don't like getting very political, from all of our conversations, especially when you're on stream with people and that kind of thing. And and to be honest, that's not what we do here on the podcast, but I had to bring this up because I just thought it was so interesting because it's a first in the sports betting world. So we've got Kamala Harris and Donald Trump going head to head in the US election, and the Harris campaign is placing ads on sports betting websites, specifically DraftKings. And this is all in an effort to, quote, unquote, win the bro vote. They wanna win the bro vote back from Donald Trump, and the Harris campaign is advertising on DraftKings. What do you think of that?

Andrew Pace [00:02:02]:

Oh, man. So you say, yeah, I don't like to get political on stream, but I feel like sometimes

Shane Mercer [00:02:07]:

it can happen.

Andrew Pace [00:02:08]:

I'll get a little bit political here. The first thing I'm gonna say, it is my opinion that sports bettors are overwhelmingly right wing.

Shane Mercer [00:02:16]:

I would agree that a large portion of sports bettors, both in the inplayLIVE community and even among, a lot of, my friends are leaning more and more to the right these days. I would say that. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:02:29]:

So I would apologize to anyone that isn't. I don't care. That's just the sort of overall sense that I get. Oftentimes, the right will be referred to as the silent majority, and I don't think that it's overly silent necessarily in our group, although politics really doesn't come up that much. The reason why it came up is because I was getting these ridiculous ads on YouTube TV being in Canada and seeing the what what is being pushed down people's throats in the United States right now relating to the election. I actually thought about it today, and I didn't even know you're gonna bring this up. I was walking my dogs. And the reason these ads are so bad is because if you are voting, it doesn't matter where you are, in the world and what the election is.

Andrew Pace [00:03:11]:

You either know who you're gonna vote for, you're not going to vote, or your vote is up for grabs. Those ads are not targeted towards the people whose vote is up for grabs that find their reason to vote anywhere else but television. So you're being spoon fed with the absolute most ridiculous stuff, and I hate to say this, that appeals to the lowest IQ individuals. That doesn't mean if your vote is up for grabs, you're you have a low IQ. It means that if those ads work on you, they're they're you they're not necessarily the best product. They're definitely, for a lower IQ voter, I would say. So that's how, like, the whole politics thing kind of got brought up on stream recently, and I just find it remarkably entertaining. For the Kamala Harris DraftKings thing, if I'm gonna make an assumption that sports bettors are right wing and her campaign then targeting that area, I'm gonna say that my analysis was somewhat accurate because if she's trying to win the bro vote, quote, unquote, that would imply that that she may be lacking, in the in that sort of demographic.

Andrew Pace [00:04:32]:

So I guess kudos for taking a shot. I don't know that it would be effective, and I think that from a business standpoint, a lot of DraftKings users and, honestly, I think it would if it would be Trump or Kamala, your when you go political, you sometimes are drawing a line in the sand to a certain degree, and you can really lose interest from certain certain people. And I know firsthand, if you put Trump on your site and you were campaigning for him, whatever your site is, you will lose people for life, and then you'll have diehard supporters. Same thing goes for Kamala. I think the DraftKings could lose some customers from doing it, and there might be a few people that are just so happy to see her on there. You know, there's a lot of different political slogans. I think one of them is go woke, go broke. Right? So if if if they're doing that on DraftKings and and, you know, it's on brand with what they're doing, you know, they they may end up seeing a little bit of backlash.

Shane Mercer [00:05:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. They probably already are. They if they already are. I mean, I it's interesting in that it's a first where any campaign has used a sports betting platform as a, a place to, push their, ads and and their, you know, campaign messaging. I I think it's also kind of interesting in the sense that we have this sort of, you know, collision of of ad messaging happening here where, you know, Pace, we've often talked a lot about how the sportsbooks ads are everywhere. Right? And they're all around all the time, and and DraftKings is definitely one of the main culprits on on both sides of the border. So, yeah, you know, you're getting bombarded with political ads, whether you turn on the TV, like you mentioned, right, for for all sorts of stuff while you're watching sports.

Shane Mercer [00:06:18]:

Then on top of it, you're getting bombarded with, sports betting website ads, like DraftKings, FanDuel, BetMGM, and the rest of them. Right? And and then now you go to a sports betting website, and once again, you're getting bombarded with a political message ad. It's it's like, you know, they're everybody's just trying to trying to fight for that attention when really all I wanna do is maybe go, place a bet on the rap scheme. You know what I mean? Like

Andrew Pace [00:06:42]:

Totally. And and, this is not from Trump's campaign at all, and this website isn't even usable in the United States, technically speaking. I mean, you you all there's always and workarounds for that kind of thing. But You Bet is offering 11.0 +1000 for $10 max on Trump to win the election. Apparently, they have gotten a shitload of new users.

Shane Mercer [00:07:06]:

What?

Andrew Pace [00:07:06]:

It's the Reddit forums. It's it's but the thing is is it's free money. So one of the things that we love to talk about to a new user of inplayLIVE, and it's actually come up on the podcast quite a few times, especially when

Andrew Pace [00:07:18]:

we had, dark horse odds on related to match betting, is how, sportsbooks promotions can be such an incredible driver of early bankroll success. So if you're a $100, bankroll and your unit size is between a dollar $3 for the wagers that you're deploying, and a sportsbook offers you an 11 point o, boost on a $10 bet that, you know, other books are offering at at let's just say, it's a coin flip and and books are offering 2.0 with no vig. You've just made 5 units if you've handled that promotion properly. Sorry. That's 5:5:5 units for a $10 bettor. You've just made, potentially 50 units for a $1 bettor. And if your unit size is even even $50, you've just made a unit from this promotion. So, getting political, sure, but let's get behind the lines here.

Andrew Pace [00:08:14]:

When you're getting these, promotional offers and opportunities from, from these sites, take advantage of them. And, what's interesting is I because we're on the topic of You Bet right now, and I had just so happened to be speaking with their team recently, I didn't know this, but they are offering and this is not a a promotion of any, like, a a paid promotion in in any way, shape, or form. They are offering same day no vig in the NHL. So if you go to the NHL right now, the lines are plus 116, minus 116, plus 149, minus 149. And there are ARBs across the board, and the way that they're limiting their players for exploiting this is if they see 10 accounts get made and 10 accounts hit the same line at the same time. And they're taking big money on this stuff. So if you just head over there and you make a big bet on one side and just leave it at that, don't exploit it with a whole bunch of other accounts or anything like that, you're flying under the radar at $1500 or less. And, I know I I didn't even intend to go here, but because they had the Trump thing and we brought up the politics, what a great way, to make some money off of a site that's trying to acquire new users.

Andrew Pace [00:09:32]:

And and like I said, I've just just spoken to their team. So I said to them, I'm like, guys, are you comfortable with the financial risk associated with what you're doing? And they're like, oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So they know what they're doing. They know who they're attracting when they're offering this kind of stuff. And, I would say hit it while you can because this is not gonna last. But there's, like, 3 or 4 arbs a day to Pinnacle or SXBet that you can, you can hit hit up at UBET right now.

Andrew Pace [00:10:01]:

And then on top of that, yeah, like, these promotions, if you have small bankroll, go get em.

Shane Mercer [00:10:06]:

What an opportunity there to go to go take advantage of, that that's kinda crazy that they would do that. There's no way that that can last for any significant amount of time. But, hey, it's a great way to to get people talking like you and then get, you know, people thinking about it and and going and checking it out. So, yeah, you know, there there must be some kind of method, to that madness. Alright. Let's move on because today, is a big day. We're recording, this right now on a Tuesday, so tip-off in the NBA taking place tonight.

Shane Mercer [00:10:33]:

This episode coming out on Wednesday. Wednesday is, like, the real full slate of NBA. It's it's the monster slate day, of the week. So really looking forward to that. But, here's a bit of an issue, that that prop bettors are gonna find, when they go to place wagers on this upcoming NBA season. So everybody will remember the Johntae Porter scandal. For those who need a quick refresher, Johntae Porter was kind of a a a low level NBA player. He was signed, to a very short contract with the Raptors, and he bet on his unders because he knew he wasn't gonna be playing.

Shane Mercer [00:11:09]:

And, of course, he got found out, got banned from the league. I think he's facing all sorts of punitive, penalties and that kind of thing. So Johntae Porter, though, has essentially ruined this market for anybody who is interested in betting on these types of players and their props because now, DraftKings, FanDuel, BetMGM, Caesars, ESPN bet, none of them are going to be offering under props on athletes, NBA players that have signed two way contracts and 10 day contracts. So it's it you're not gonna be able to bet the unders. They may still offer the overs on some of those players, but you won't be able to bet the unders. Pace to Johntae Porter ruin any of your plans?

Andrew Pace [00:11:54]:

No. He's a member of inplayLIVE now, so I'm, you know, happy to welcome you into the community. And so we we've got a guy with that alias in our group. Yeah. Every every time he says something on the stream, I can't I can't not laugh. And and, actually, we don't it very well could be, and we wouldn't even know, but I I'm sure it's not. Just a smart move. Shane, I'm so on board with this, man.

Andrew Pace [00:12:14]:

Like I'm so on board with this. The the topic of corruption's come up on this podcast quite a bit, and there have been times where I've seen things and I've sided with the idea of corruption being very valid. As a general statement, it's a crutch that bettors lean on to to make excuses for their decisions or the way their game went rather than owning it themselves. And just because we're on the topic, I'm gonna bring up Texas, Georgia from this last weekend here where we saw a pass interference call, get thrown, get announced. You watch the replay of it. Certainly was a soft call. Definitely seen calls that are far worse than this, in in a whole series of different leagues. The fans didn't like it.

Andrew Pace [00:12:56]:

They threw garbage on the field, whether the refs thought that they wouldn't get out of Texas safely or, or whether they a replay came in where they said maybe, you know, this wasn't the best call, which isn't something that's reviewable in college football. They decided to pick up the flag. This flag was thrown on a pick 6. So not only did they pick up the flag and, reward the touchdown, they did it after the field had been cleaned up, quite quite a long time afterwards. So Twitter or x or whatever just absolutely blew up. Social media blew up. Texas is cheating. The refs this, blah blah blah blah blah, corrupt blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Andrew Pace [00:13:32]:

So what I saw that day, I did not like. It felt so wrong.

Shane Mercer [00:13:39]:

It was wrong in a lot of ways. I mean, it would the George should behaving that way, and then No. No. That, you know, that was that was bad on its own. But then, yes, everything that followed as well.

Andrew Pace [00:13:49]:

Georgia won. Georgia did win. Georgia won by 15. So to all the people out there that are relying on this crutch time and again, shut the fuck up. Georgia won. Good move by the NBA.

Shane Mercer [00:14:08]:

Yes. Yeah. I I think I think, you know, it's it's something that that, you know, had to be done, I think, because the incentive for some of these players to go and and do that, right, and make that that extra money, I think, might be too might be too much. And, you know, they don't wanna get get they they don't wanna see a whole market ruined. Right? So, hey, let's just remove though that side of things and and move on from there. Alright. That's enough about, Johntae Porter. Pace, anything else from the NBA and the season ahead that that you wanna mention to our audience?

Andrew Pace [00:14:38]:

Yeah. The NBA is insanely unique, and and I we just talked about corruption. Now I'm gonna kinda just basically say people to shut the fuck up, and now they're gonna be like, pace, that that implies corruption. But in any given sporting event, you can make an argument that both teams want to win the game. And I think in every single NBA regular season game, you can make that argument. But in the NBA, it is undisputed that certain games matter more to teams from the standpoint of proving themselves. Many teams in the last 5 years have shown that you just need to get into the playoffs to be able to do damage. Golden State Warriors won the title, the COVID year.

Andrew Pace [00:15:22]:

Sorry. The year after the COVID year, and they didn't get in as, like, a one seed. They they were one of the the the later seeds. We saw the Miami heat, beat the one seed as the the 8th seed and go all the way to the final, in 2 separate years where they weren't at the top of the Eastern Conference. So because of that, we are seeing more and more in the NBA. Some of this load management stuff with which, yes, is being attacked by the league to a certain extent, But there's viral clips online of certain players, you know, playing Fortnite and saying stay up later. You know, you got the Hawks tomorrow night. You're good kinda thing.

Andrew Pace [00:15:54]:

So in the NBA, teams challenge themselves in a lot of different ways. One of those ways might be dogging it for 3 quarters and then seeing how far they can come back from when they're down. Another one of those can be resting certain players, and it's really, really hard to predict when this is happening. So from a pregame standpoint, a lot of these big favorite spreads, it doesn't mean that they're not going to cover the spread. It doesn't mean that they're gonna lose either. It simply means that when you bet live on basketball, odds are you're gonna get a better opportunity than what is offered to you pregame, especially once the season is well underway. In the beginning, teams come out. They wanna prove themselves.

Andrew Pace [00:16:41]:

They wanna have a good year. It doesn't matter if you're the worst team in the league, you still are hoping that you can maybe have put it together this year to at least make the playoffs. After, you know, few few weeks, couple months go by, that's where we start heading into a position where we see all of this stuff, potential motivational gaps in any one individual game, teams that dogged and come back in the Q4 or late in the game that still might end up covering the spread or winning the game, but they they definitely made it hard on themselves. And, yeah, a lot of this load management and things like that. So, do teams wanna win? Yes. They absolutely wanna win, but don't be surprised, you know, in an 82 game season if if the team doesn't look exactly how you had hoped to, throughout the game. There can be oftentimes really great value on 1st quarters and first halves of some of these big underdogs, especially when they're playing at home. If you have a big underdog at home in the NBA, oftentimes that Q1 is one that they're gonna come out slinging, if they're playing a good team that is a massive favorite, and the massive favorite kind of knows that they can still win later in the game.

Andrew Pace [00:17:46]:

So there's lots to look for in the NBA. It's a ton of fun to bet on. I couldn't be more excited. We came off of the end of last season, more specifically the playoffs, with a 44% ROI in the NBA playoffs. We had a blended just under 11% for the whole season, but I actually think we're doing a lot of things wrong that I'm really excited to have built off of from the previous season. So if you like betting on hoops, you wanna learn more, you wanna learn new skills, new strategies, check us out for this NBA season. It's gonna be a ton of fun.

Shane Mercer [00:18:22]:

Yeah. It's, I'm, I'm super excited for the NBA season, this year around. I'm a big, a wraps fan as you can tell, but, you know, I I'm just very excited to be a sports bettor actively looking for opportunities in the NBA this season. I think you touched on a lot of great points there. If you're new to betting on on the NBA live, I encourage you to just learn watch a little bit, watch lines move because it is a dramatic movement. It happens very quickly. You might wanna wait for a time time out before you even think about trying to spin something in, because it it probably moves faster than any other sport out there, you know, in terms of of how the lines move and the and the the numbers, changing on you. So so definitely keep that in mind, but that also presents incredible opportunity.

Shane Mercer [00:19:10]:

Middling opportunities are, like, you know, middling galore in the NBA if that's your jam. There there's so much, to be had there. So very much looking forward to it. And, PACE, you know, I think a lot of sharp bettors out there who are listening to this are gonna hear you say you had a 44% ROI on, on the NBA, and they're not gonna believe it, but I'm here to testify to that. You know, it is absolutely possible. It is very like, it it it it might have some people's heads exploding when they think about it because they're pregame NBA bettors and maybe they're grinding out a 5 percentage at most. And then I hear somebody come on and say 44%, and they don't believe it. But, Pace, you've got the numbers to back it up.

Shane Mercer [00:19:50]:

We've got the data. It's available on the inplayLIVE website. People wanna see it. It's there. Yeah. So that that's an important thing, I think, to point out, because, it is it's almost too good to be true, but when you actually see it in action and you live it yourself, I can tell you it's true. So I definitely, if you're if you're thinking about joining or yet you're yet you haven't experienced an NBA season with us at inplayLIVE, absolutely come check it out. I think you'll be, very surprised, pleasantly surprised.

Shane Mercer [00:20:19]:

Alright. But pace. We're still in the middle of the NFL. Right? That's still it's still the NFL time of year. You know? They they basically own all things in the sports betting, landscape. So I think it's time for our regular new segment grinding with Gosu, this time without Gosu.

Andrew Pace [00:20:38]:

So we actually had a moment today where we needed to check and see if John was okay because we couldn't get a hold of him, but, he he had he had some equipment stolen from him. He was without phone. His laptop computer, he couldn't get on. So we're gonna grind with Gosu without Gosu. So I know a lot of people have really enjoyed that segment. And because of that, I get to talk shit a little bit about him. And I think there wasn't enough banter back and forth last week. But when he told me he was betting Texas and this is the thing.

Andrew Pace [00:21:06]:

I'm always gonna represent the public with anything pregame, and this is why I bet live. I'm thinking to myself, you couldn't fucking pay me. You couldn't pay me to put a dollar on Texas pregame in that game. And that was our best game of the week because we kept betting Georgia all game long and absolutely crushed that college football game. And if John was on right now, he would literally say, well, yeah, I lost, you know, quarter unit pregame, and I made 2 units on the game. On the game. John John has his pulse on the pregame stuff, but he also has, the ability to let that go and and bet live based on, the way it is going, currently. So pretty pretty cool college football season.

Andrew Pace [00:21:48]:

The reason why I say that is because a lot of the juggernauts have lost games. And because we have the playoff, there isn't, like, this dependency on getting into the top 4. We're gonna have to see a lot of these teams play again. You know? We've seen Ohio State lose where they should have won, and now Oregon's number 1. We've seen Alabama lose twice now. Tennessee's gone down to a bad team. We watched Georgia go down to Alabama, and now we've seen Texas go down to Georgia. So it's gonna be really exciting, and I don't feel that same sort of air of Alabama and Georgia being the absolute best two teams, which even though Michigan won last year, I kind of felt that way right until the very end.

Andrew Pace [00:22:29]:

And, yes, Michigan beat Alabama blah blah blah blah blah. But I felt like Georgia still would have won the Natty if they were in that final 4 last year, which can never be proven, so don't even worry about it. But exciting stuff with college football, and, we had a tremendous freaking weekend. 5 units on Saturday. Just just a lot of fun betting on it. We really really hit our stride, and a lot of that was that Georgia game. So, over to the NFL, I'm not gonna do any pregame analysis, but what we do know is that in the last 2 weeks, sportsbooks have lost more money in in these 2 weeks than essentially they ever have in history. We had 36 players remaining in our survivor pool at inplayLIVE, 3 weeks ago after all the carnage and I wasn't one of them.

Andrew Pace [00:23:10]:

Hundreds of it. Thousand thousands of entries. Right? And 36 people survived 2 weeks ago, and 36 people survived this previous week. So when that happens, the public is lighting it up from a betting's perspective, and you can see it in this week's lines. We have minus 10 what were we talking about? Well, there aren't these 2 score favorites. Here they come. Detroit Lions minus 11. Baltimore minus 9.

Andrew Pace [00:23:36]:

Chargers minus 7a half. Kansas City Chiefs minus 10a half. Broncos minus 9. So New York Jets minus 7. Like, there are huge spreads this weekend, and that is that is the sports book's response to these last couple of weeks where they are putting themselves in a defensive position where if the favorites do clean up again, you've got some really big 2 score favorites that aren't necessarily good teams, and you're putting yourself in a position where a lot of these teasers aren't teasing down to 0 anymore. They're teasing down to 3a half, 4a half kind of thing. And, if they do pay out, the payouts will be far less. But from a teaser standpoint, something that we have touched on in the last couple of weeks, I won all of my teasers last week, which was fucking cool, and a really nice bankroll boost, believe it or not.

Andrew Pace [00:24:25]:

So I'll do that kind of stuff to butter up some books, to prime some books, to make myself look square. And and when you hit them, it's just, all the more awesome, to do it. I've said this before in our grinding with go to segments. I'm gonna say it again. The lower the game total, the more probable it is that a plus side of a teaser that goes through the 7 covers. That isn't conjecture. It's a simple fact. It's based on the numbers.

Andrew Pace [00:24:56]:

So from a teaser standpoint, I'm just gonna point out a couple games this week that make a lot of sense to me. And, honestly, there really only are a couple. The first is the Houston Texans at home minus 6 to the Colts. You can tease that down to 0. That one is, really exciting. The second is gonna be the Bucks plus 2a half at home. You can tease that up to 8a half. Some people might really like the Jets.

Andrew Pace [00:25:22]:

I hate division games on the road and big favorites on the road. That is not my cup of tea. The Eagles, that total's a little bit higher. It's at 47a half, but you can get the the Eagles teased up against the Bengals, at plus 8 and a half. The my heart says take the Bengals side of that, but you're not supposed to tease through 0. And then the the last one would probably be the chargers because you can tease them down to 1 in a total of 39a half. I know those aren't the all plus sides, but, those are the games that stand out to me. I personally, just emotion, fanship, all the things I say not to do, can't do that Eagles side, but I'll definitely be looking at, those other ones.

Andrew Pace [00:26:04]:

And then the last one would be the 43 and a half total, the commanders at home. I know it might not be Jaden Daniels or probably won't be Jaden Daniels, but you can tease them at home up to 8a half as dogs. So those ones catch my eye. I don't know if they'll win or lose, but I'll definitely be doing some sort of combinations of those to, butter up some books as

Shane Mercer [00:26:25]:

we can. Oh, I think whether or not Jaden Daniels out there is is the deciding factor. Right? I don't wanna wait for that news.

Andrew Pace [00:26:32]:

I've already taken it. I like I I like I like that team right now. They're just playing well. They played well without, they played well without Daniels once Mariota came in. You can argue the game was already over. But yeah.

Shane Mercer [00:26:43]:

Yeah. They they did play well without him anyway. But but, man, he's fun to watch. That that's a he's just electric. Anyway, if anybody out there is interested in putting together a teaser, betting on some of these things that Pace mentioned, maybe having a look at it, Pinnacle Sportsbook is the place to do it. You'll get the very best odds over there, and they will not limit winners. So you hit a big teaser like that, guess what? You're not gonna get limited. And, you know, you're gonna be able to to hit a whole bunch of them, and you'll never have to worry about, getting booted off the book or anything like that.

Shane Mercer [00:27:15]:

So head over to pinnacle.comforward/inplaylive. That's the link you wanna use. So that's pinnacle.comforward/inplaylive, the best place to place anything pregame. So head on over and check that out. Alright, Pace. With that, we've got a great interview coming up here. A great guest. So, let's turn it over to him.

Shane Mercer [00:27:39]:

Our guest on this episode is film school grad, a writer and director turned sports wagering entrepreneur. Travis Geiger is the chief experience officer and a cofounder at Wager Wire, a place to buy, sell, and track bets. Travis, welcome to the show.

Travis Geiger [00:27:56]:

Thanks so much, Shane. Appreciate you having me.

Shane Mercer [00:27:59]:

Hey. Really, really happy to have you on here. First, how do you go from writing and directing films to working in the sports betting industry?

Travis Geiger [00:28:06]:

Well, I was getting really frustrated with Hollywood. I'm not gonna lie to you. I had my own projects that were independently funded, and, I, found I had really had no leverage in that system. And I in the back of my mind, a way to have ultimate leverage is to do something that gets you extremely wealthy and then make movies. They say, you know, if you wanna make a small fortune movie, start with a large one. So Yeah. Around that same time with when I was signed to the Creative Artist Agency, which I wouldn't recommend anyone does, CIA, just putting that pitch in there. Okay.

Travis Geiger [00:28:40]:

I came home late from a film set, and my future cofounder and good friend, roommate at the time, also fraternity brother with our other cofounder, he had a packer's bet. Right? And with the Thursday night football game, I don't wanna place the live line. I actually like the pre match bet that he got, and we wanted to ride it together. I didn't wanna root for a field goal difference in the score or whatever it was. So I Venmoed him $50 for half of his $100 bet, and it won, and he sent me back half the winnings. And we thought, wow. This is pretty awesome. I wonder if you can actually do this.

Travis Geiger [00:29:06]:

And there's no way you could really do it. Game it out. It's like a secondary market just like any other marketplace, like there are for sneakers or collectibles, whatever, but it's sports bets. We found that prop swap was doing it through the mail, and we thought there should probably be a tech first solution. So we got a 1st class tech team, spent all the money we had in our savings, and then started raising money. And, we're knocking on the door of making this a widely available feature, the ability to sell your sports bet, like cashing out, but you name your price and someone else buys it.

Andrew Pace [00:29:33]:

Interesting. You know what's crazy about what you just said there is fundamentally, it's what all the sportsbooks never want is or use against you collaborating and sharing bets or making the same bets together as a group or, you know, it's all things that are looked down upon.

Travis Geiger [00:29:52]:

Yes you're asking why would they play ball, basically. Right?

Andrew Pace [00:29:55]:

Not necessarily. I was just pointing it out, but sure. I I you you can answer your own question because I like it.

Travis Geiger [00:30:01]:

Well, I think the answer is yours too, which is, yeah, they're trying to stop proxy betting and collusion, but this really isn't that. What this is is optionality. And when people have an out, they're gonna be more aggressive as far as the from the book's point of view. Right? You're gonna place a parlay knowing that 2 or 3 legs in, you can sell it. You can name a price and sell it. You can place a cowboy Super Bowl future because, you know, they have an easy first three games. Everyone's gonna get hype on them, and you can offload it. Right? Double your money or whatever it might be depending on how you play it.

Travis Geiger [00:30:28]:

So what that does is a couple of things for for the bettor. It gives you that cash out option, but it doesn't gouge you. Like, the sportsbooks run it through a risk engine. We have a suggested pricing engine. The sportsbooks like what, you know, their cash out because it's like crazy margins. In a weird way, giving people this optionality allows them to keep it there. But it gives us, the bettors, a way to profit when we know that we're in the money. Even if the line moves in a certain direction and you're on the, like, the right side of it, you could sell your bet before the game even starts.

Travis Geiger [00:30:57]:

You can sell parts of your bet before the game even starts.

Travis Geiger [00:31:00]:

Now you have to have those sports the sports book of origin. You have to be a a member or signed up with that. So it's bringing new people into the system is another reason the sportsbooks like it. They've considered, like, an affiliate product. For us, it's just how do we get it into the market. So we tell them whatever we have to tell them because it can be whatever it needs to be. It's a secondary market. It's inevitability of any capitalistic marketplace right.

Andrew Pace [00:31:20]:

Right. So since you brought that up, like, Shane's in Ontario where he has a legalized, sports betting landscape, and you're in California where you don't have a legalized sports betting landscape. So how would the product, work between 2 parties like that, or would it not? And could it work peer to peer in LA and peer to peer in Ontario, even though California is not regulated.

Travis Geiger [00:31:44]:

Okay. Yeah. So we're getting right into it. So and I know that your audience will appreciate these nuances. So even though we're we we are WagerWire, our patented tech, is a way that is compliant with the Wire Act. Okay? So we actually are able to have interstate and interjurisdictional liquidities provided that the sports book that it's originating at, let's say, it's MGM in both jurisdictions, if they exist in both of those legal jurisdictions, then you can go jurisdiction to jurisdiction for sure. And that's in the future state where everything is, like, API integrated, whatever. The legal bounds that we're in now, but we're not fully exercising is that once the risk is minted, it no longer is a bet actually because you're not the person buying it isn't putting new risk into a system the same way you would placing a bet, even a peer to peer bet.

Travis Geiger [00:32:30]:

So it actually becomes underlying contract for the payout to that bet. So it's like trading around the pink slip for a car. And so in theory, we could be selling bets into Texas and into California, but we don't we prefer not to push the envelope as we try to mint these partnerships to do it for real.

Andrew Pace [00:32:45]:

Sure. So that brings up another question that I have is I'm limited at MGM in New Jersey. I'm not limited at MGM, in Colorado because I've never been there, just hypothetically speaking. I can buy an MGM slip from a player in Colorado without concern in New Jersey even though my account was limited there.

Travis Geiger [00:33:11]:

So I have to be careful what I say here because every book is is different, and we're certainly not helping people getting our get around limits.

Andrew Pace [00:33:19]:

It's just a hypothetical though where you think about that. I've got the MGM account. I didn't place the bet, but you're in Colorado where I'm not limited, right, as a player, and I'm in New Jersey where I have been. What would be what would stop that from working?

Travis Geiger [00:33:35]:

Well, we push every sports bet that gets bought or sold. We push through the same rails that the sports book would normally go through for a primary betting in place. So if you were on exclusion list, KYC, geo, and, you know, even being limited. But we are our argument to these books is this is actually a way to stop limiting players because people that are buying bets from and, generally, it's the sharper people that are gonna be buying it because they're gonna get discount to the consensus odds or whatever it might be. And generally, it's Joe Public who's selling it because they're just really happy to be here. They're turned 10 to a 100,000 on their way to a1000000, but they'll take it. You know what I mean? So our argument is that the sharps aren't putting new risk on the books, actually. They're giving their Joe Public and Rex a better outcome and a better experience.

Travis Geiger [00:34:17]:

And so its a symbiotic relationship. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:34:21]:

Interesting.

Shane Mercer [00:34:22]:

I'm really curious, though. Like, how do you know what you're getting is a fair price? Yeah. So, you know, you've got a bet that's been been wagered on and perhaps the lines moved a couple of points, but how do I know what the fair price is to split that bet with you or buy that entire bet off of you? You know, or how do you help, I guess, the public understand what a fair price would be?

Travis Geiger [00:34:44]:

Great question. So it's something you spend a lot of time on and, have a lot of proprietary algorithms around is our pricing models and their suggested prices. Right? So the what you could do and you can go on WageWire.com/calculator now and everyone can toy around with straight bets or parlays. And based on the current odds, we can immediately tell you what you would have to lay to get that same payout. Right? So you can think of that almost as the ceiling. So if you have one leg left in your parlay, what would a straight bet on that team be to to get that same payout? That's, like, what we call, like, the replacement value. Then there's what we think it'll clear the market for, which is going to be below that, but it's gonna be above cash out because the person wouldn't even sell it if it unless they were gonna get a better deal than cash out. So between what you would place that if this is a straight bet, we're talking like a future.

Travis Geiger [00:35:26]:

What you would have to place that for at this point in the season and what cash out's being offered if it is. And then in between there, we offer you a number that we think can clear market. You can toggle up or down on it, but then the the buyer is gonna see this is an a score compared to consensus or this is a b minus or a c just like you would on SeatGeek.

Shane Mercer [00:35:44]:

Okay. So I don't have to go with your price. I can adjust the price if I wanted to sell a bet, but other users are gonna see that, WagerWire says this is, you know, this is an a value or this is, you know, an f value, and Shane's trying to rip us off here.

Travis Geiger [00:36:00]:

Correct.

Shane Mercer [00:36:01]:

Yeah. K. Gotcha.

Andrew Pace [00:36:03]:

So I have lots of questions because I I think it's really I think it's really cool, but I'm from, like, you know, when you have a bettor that understands the potential value in this separately of, I guess, the business side of things where you go, hey. How could I use this, or how could I start buying some people's wagers that could benefit me where I gain an ROI as a user purchasing them. So if I'm looking at this from the standpoint of, like, okay. I've got FanDuel. I've got this $100,000 payout, looming here. They're offering me a cash out. I'm just trying to get a slightly better price than the cash out. Is that worth doing? Like, is it worth putting that work in, and how simple is the whole process to actually make it worth doing? And then as the person purchasing it, I'm looking at it and going, I know they're being offered approximately this much on their cash out.

Andrew Pace [00:36:58]:

I know that there's still some edge that's available to me as the person purchasing. This is a win win scenario. It's actually interesting. Like, is it gonna be bid down, like, right to the like, a real, like, you know, sliver of value, that people are competing for? Do you view that as the primary sort of value of the product, or is this more for scenarios where cash outs are not being offered or both?

Travis Geiger [00:37:25]:

So I think it's a little bit of both. So to speak to the process now, we're taking the most interesting bets that come to us, and we're taking to our VIP network, involves a lot of the people that you guys probably know, a lot of people in the bet bet back community, also some services on the East Coast and stuff. And that's exactly what we try to do. We try to shop them a better deal than what Cash Out is offering. And, oftentimes, we'll make a little media spectacle about it too because these are big tickets. So for us, we've never paid for ads or anything because we let the tickets tell the story, and we let the ticket owner, you know, be the star of the, the story. And we've had a couple of really interesting ones. One, where Cash Out was offered, which was the 100 to win 1.7, 3 leg parlay that ended with the thunder.

Travis Geiger [00:38:04]:

It was World Series Super Bowl. He needed the thunder. That was a guy, Wayne, out of Arizona. And, he turned down a $150,000 offer to purchase it. Excuse me. He turned down a $150,000 office offer to purchase it from a private buyer. He turned down a $100,000 offer to purchase it from a private buyer, ended up capitulating and panicked, 80,000 from the DK cash out. So it was being offered the whole time.

Travis Geiger [00:38:26]:

He was just trying to see what he could get out of it. Another guy, Mark Juan, though, he had a bet that what cash out was never offered by FanDuel. It was a 5 leg parlay on the NFL honors, and that was 5 to win 680 k. He opted to sell the night before, he opted to sell 20% of it for 25 grand. So he turned $525 through us, and, Will Anderson lost by or Will Anderson was the one that took him down by 2 votes at the end of it. But he placed it a year ago, and he had a great story too. He was a truck driver, got in an accident, was laying around, wasn't taking disability, but wanted to hit this was placed in parlays to hope to buy a new truck and a place for his grandma. So he was able to get a new truck, and I think he get his grandma the nice place, and we're still friends.

Travis Geiger [00:39:08]:

He's our chief parlay officer now, Mark Juan.

Shane Mercer [00:39:10]:

A chief parlay officer. Wow. What a role.

Andrew Pace [00:39:16]:

What a position. I think I think that's Rodge at inplayLIVE.

Shane Mercer [00:39:18]:

I was gonna play I think Rodge, like, Rodge is just a perfect candidate. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. That's funny. CPO. CPO. CPO.

Shane Mercer [00:39:26]:

Chief Parlay Officer. Wow. That's unbelievable. What a world we live in.

Travis Geiger [00:39:30]:

I will say, if anybody's on Twitter, just DM us if you have an interesting ticket, and we'll consider it. We're building out the functionality now to just to take all these bids, and then we we privately bid them. We'll open up a public bidding thing. But, like, at the end of the day, we see this as just like you have Expedia, Priceline, or Trivelocity, or even, like, StubHub is another good example. Like, any any place that's like an aggregator, it's just taking that extra step. And at the end of the day, we want WageWire to be, like, the main page where everyone's accounts are synced, one password, you know, move your balances around whatever you wanna do. You can place a primary bet or buy it on the secondary. That's what, our, you know, us, we're building towards every day slowly.

Travis Geiger [00:40:04]:

But for right now, if you guys have interesting bets, we'll do private sales for you.

Andrew Pace [00:40:08]:

Right. Really cool. Okay. So, I'm assuming this is not a nonprofit business venture.

Travis Geiger [00:40:15]:

No. It's very much for profit by design. So you are you asking how we make money?

Andrew Pace [00:40:20]:

Well, I can understand, you know, a fee or a percentage, but then I'm looking back at the cash out and going to the player. What's the point of going through this to make an extra $5 or $500 even?

Shane Mercer [00:40:30]:

But but also, based on on my list of questions here is, how do you make money?

Andrew Pace [00:40:34]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, let's hear it. Let's hear it.

Travis Geiger [00:40:37]:

Yeah. And by the way, just as much as I think that they would get bid down to the floor of the, you know, cash out, it is possible that 2 people are bidding it up because anything that you can get that's a discount to the window is kinda edge. Sure. But, how do we make money? So it's we right now, we do a small fee to the, seller on them, and the buyer sees it baked in. It's less than the big. Let's just call it half the big. So, I mean, I don't wanna say anything because I don't wanna bake ourselves into some commercial terms. But, we're not trying to burden the we're we think that it's gonna be you're gonna want we're gonna we want more people to I think that there's always gonna be buyers at a discount to the window.

Travis Geiger [00:41:22]:

So we just we we want to go to 0 fees eventually because we can make money with data. We can make money as an affiliate. We wanna go to 0 fees eventually. But right now, it's baked into the pie. It's also incentive for the casino to take something, less of a big than cash out, obviously, which is sometimes 30%.

Andrew Pace [00:41:37]:

Yeah.

Travis Geiger [00:41:38]:

We're talking, like, no more than 10, like, we have deals in place at 5%, and it's just to one side of the transaction the seller and the buyer sees it baked in. That's how we're doing it now. But yeah. And then we get paid by the casinos, though. Those are the that's ultimately the way we make money. Because if you wanna buy if Shane wants to buy PACE's bet, like, he has to sign up for MGM if it came from MGM.

Andrew Pace [00:41:57]:

And then you're they become an affiliate of your platform?

Travis Geiger [00:42:00]:

Yes. And, importantly, we don't take LTV. We take flat CPAs only because we don't wanna profit off of anyone's losses, which is unique about us. That's why we can stand behind any people's picks that we platform or opinions that we have because at the end of the day, when you hear something from FanDuel TV, their picks of the day, they're running back to their board to say how many suckers took the FanDuel TV picks of the day. Right?

Andrew Pace [00:42:19]:

Right. Right. Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. That's interesting. Yeah. I think it's it's really cool to get to no fee, but I think separately of of the no fee, as you said, if I have the opportunity to get the Chiefs on Sunday Night Football at 5 points higher through through your platform buying out someone's parlor at the end of their parlor versus, you know, taking the line in my sports book, you become another out for potentially peep potentially people that had been limited.

Andrew Pace [00:42:43]:

We kinda didn't close that out, but I it sounds like that could be could be something there, which is which is really cool. We didn't get to the book that doesn't offer the cash out. So I think there's value there, but, like, it could could I potentially use Bovada on your site and it it will support it, or is it gonna be only, regulated sportsbooks?

Travis Geiger [00:43:07]:

We're we're taking the high road for as long as we can.

Andrew Pace [00:43:11]:

So you're using offshores? Because that is the high road.

Travis Geiger [00:43:19]:

No No, haha it's not that's out of the question, but the way that we're structured as a business now is to be fully legal. Although we, you know, we have a ton of respect for the innovation that goes on offshore, and I think America is way behind. And you can see pretty clearly that just the bookmakers offshore are far superior like Pinnacle. Everyone's been chasing that.

Shane Mercer [00:43:38]:

I was ready to bring them up. Yeah.

Andrew Pace [00:43:40]:

But but but that's the thing, Travis, that I'm gonna say about Pinnacle. Pinnacle's licensed and regulated in Ontario. So if you wanna take the high road with them, Ontario is as big of a betting province as any state in the United States as a general statement. Yes. Of course, New Jersey and New York are are, you know, behemoths in the betting world. Ontario is a behemoth in the betting world. They're just not quite at that level, and, like, they are regulated and licensed in Ontario. So, hopefully, that could be an angle for you, and I think that you bring in a site like Pinnacle, be tremendous because they're obviously a huge attractor of some of the best sports bettors in the world.

Travis Geiger [00:44:19]:

It's honestly, it's hard to argue with you, and I will be in Malta next month. I'll have to pay Pinnacle a visit. We're proud to say we have one of the cofounders of Pinnacle as an investor and adviser, and then, of course, Paris Smith, who you guys have had on the CEO of 17 years as an investor and adviser in us. Really cool. Yeah. Really cool to have that, like, on the team because we're doing something innovative, and they're they might be considered old guard, but they've created the best product that gambling's ever seen for sure.

Andrew Pace [00:44:44]:

Right. So, just back to the offshore discussion, and especially with you being in California, we had who do we have on Shane from that that really cool thing that the the sports book that is operating in, like, 43 states?

Shane Mercer [00:45:00]:

Oh, Novig?

Andrew Pace [00:45:02]:

Novig. Sorry. It didn't come to mind right away. Yeah. Do you think that something like that would give be considered, quote, unquote, the high road or no?

Travis Geiger [00:45:10]:

I'm not gonna live and die by the high road comment. I actually do.

Shane Mercer [00:45:15]:

There's a lot of gray in this space.

Travis Geiger [00:45:18]:

Yeah. It's a lot of gray. We call it a white a white space of opportunity. Right?

Shane Mercer [00:45:21]:

Yeah.

Travis Geiger [00:45:23]:

You know, it's interesting. The contests are interesting. Right now, we're engineering stuff for brackets. I mean, because there's Flip also as well out there.

Andrew Pace [00:45:32]:

Well, isn't Underdog on the list there?

Travis Geiger [00:45:35]:

Yeah. So, like, we're an affiliate to DFS companies like Underdog, Bettr, Price Picks. Right? And we're actually, you know, working through our Bettor integration. We hope Right.

Andrew Pace [00:45:43]:

So the answer is yes then. Because the that's similar to Novig. Yep.

Travis Geiger [00:45:47]:

No. Totally. And, like, as long as the operator is in that state, we're in that state. We you can download us in all 50 states and Canada. And right now, you can do the marketplace in the app with RT Sports.

Andrew Pace [00:45:59]:

So theoretically speaking, let's say that we've got a potential DFS winner who's able to sell his position through your site. Is that something that through through those partners could be offered? The partner that we're is it betting specifically, like, DFS wouldn't crossover?

Travis Geiger [00:46:20]:

We're gonna do it all. We're even gonna we're even looking into March Madness brackets and March and, NCAA's

Shane Mercer [00:46:26]:

I could buy a bracket. Alright.

Andrew Pace [00:46:28]:

Yeah. So theoretically speaking, whether it's a bracket, whether it's, you know, a closing, player prop in DFS where, you know, you can easily calculate it. Let's say, you know, I I need, James Conner to not get, 6 fantasy points to win to close out a contest or whatever. As a sports bettor, you might be able to get some crazy odds buying someone out of something on a player prop that has, like, just a ridiculous probability to hit, which I think you'd have to be sharp as hell and on top of it because there's only gonna be so many opportunities, and people with big pockets will buy them up right away. But, like, that's a cool opportunity as a sports bettor to get just a crazy edge on a scenario that maybe it would never even be offered at a sports book because the parlay stuff seems so simple. Right? It's like, okay. You know, this is the line of the sports book. I'm the user that's selling.

Andrew Pace [00:47:22]:

This is my cash out. We're meeting in the middle. You know? But something like this might be a little bit more technical, March madness bracket or whatever. Yeah. It could be it it could come down to a few different things that maybe aren't readily available at a sports book that that could have a crazy edge to the player.

Travis Geiger [00:47:38]:

Completely agree. And I forgot to say our pricing algorithms are really advanced where if if a game is in progress in a person, it's the Q2 and they got 15 out of 27 fantasy points, but then you also have, you know, under 3 and a half strikeouts on an in a different game, and then you have, like, a hockey bet at the same time or a hockey leg at the same time. We can provide real time pricing for all of those, correlated and uncorrelated, which is pretty cool. And to your point, there's crazy hedge opportunities going from betting to DFS and and vice versa. It's also like, the service survivor brackets right now too is another great example. Anything that is considered a gambling asset or a fantasy asset or a contest asset, we're working on being able to fractionalize and sell that for for bettors.

Andrew Pace [00:48:24]:

I'd love to sell you a couple of my Chiefs, Niners Under from yesterday.

Travis Geiger [00:48:28]:

Oh, shit. Wow. I will say the other thing the the other thing that's interesting about our product that I like is it verifies people's bets. So they're actually gonna sign into their DraftKings or FanDuel or whatever the bet is that they're posting it for sale. We'll see that that bet is in there, that it's legit. Some of these bets I see on bleach report or whatever, I don't even know if they're photoshopped. Heck, with with the with the thunder bet, they almost interviewed the wrong guy because he was pretending to be Wayne, and they were gonna pay him for for his interview. But we have that sinking so we can see it, and, we do tax liability, all that.

Travis Geiger [00:48:59]:

We got all that figured out. We're just really excited for it to be instantaneous and digital and, like, available on the major books.

Shane Mercer [00:49:06]:

You you just said instantaneous, and this has sort of been something that that's kinda going in my mind here. It's you know, Pace and I, we do a lot of live betting, really focused live in the moment, you know, and and a bet winner loses potentially in in a span of 5 real minutes. You know? Sometimes that's the scenario. What's the turnaround time like on on I wanna post this bet. I wanna sell this bet. We've agreed on a price. How fast can that happen?

Travis Geiger [00:49:32]:

Yeah. Great question. With our integrated partners, time's coming down all the time, but it from posting to selling, it's 2 hours is is the current window, which is not instantaneous. But what I think will happen in the future that we're talking about is there will be betting syndicates that just say, hey, WagerWire. We would buy any of x bet if it was if it ever reached x price. And then almost like a cash out, you can advertise that as, like, the sell it now price to the Bettor, and then that's syndicate and then it would automatically just go to the syndicate.

Andrew Pace [00:50:02]:

You know what's interesting about you bringing that up is I had a really interesting discussion at BetBash with someone from the world's largest syndicate. And I didn't know that this was happening. This might be just naive of me, but I find it so funny that you have sportsbooks that will throw that term around, the term syndicate as this hugely negative thing that isn't allowed to be happening on their platform. And then they'll put winning players in a syndicate bucket without any evidence when it actually in fact is not true and use it as a potential reason to withhold your funds. And, of course, now we're not talking about the high road. We're talking about some shady shady ass sportsbooks. Right? But then speaking to this guy and learning that the biggest sportsbooks in the world will pick up the phone and phone them, not because the sportsbook can't handle the risk, but because the individual traders bonus could be impacted by some crazy ass parlays coming through on a week like last week, the worst week in the NFL history in 30 years apparently to the sportsbooks.

Andrew Pace [00:51:12]:

Where you go if the if the bills come in tomorrow night or if the lines come in this afternoon, like, it's gonna ruin all my bonuses. I have, you know, x hold that I'm responsible for, and, you know, this is gonna really mess everything up. And they call into the syndicate to sell to sell the risk off because they wanna make sure that, they they don't get hit as hard as they potentially could. And you're essentially allowing anyone to do that instead of having access to, you know, the syndicate, which, I mean, how many of us do we have access to? So it's it's interesting. You have the sports book who is anti syndicate and using it against you, the player, and then the sportsbook that then relies on the syndicate to mitigate their risk in adverse and challenging situations. So this allows anybody to be that person for much smaller figures in theory than obviously the ones we're referencing in that story.

Travis Geiger [00:52:09]:

Yeah. I think that I think that this whole thing has to reach equilibrium where, like you said, like, there are pros and cons to syndicates, and they're being sliced and diced in, like, weird ways by books and labeled this or that. But if you look at any other marketplace, I don't care if it's, like, used cars or stock trading or Jordans. Like, they all have this figured out because they're efficient markets. Gambling because of its history of regulation and the Wire Act and all these other things, especially North America, has been an inefficient market for too long. And so the what our backers and what we firmly believe in, my cofounder comes from an economics background and my other cofounder's from, applied statistics, is I'm from the media side of it because I just think it's fucking exciting. But, is that this is an inevitability and that with enough time, the companies that make the most money are going to be the ones that actually provide efficiency. And that those companies don't always monetize from the end user.

Travis Geiger [00:52:59]:

Like, we're not trying to make money off of bettors. We're trying to provide optionality that actually creates efficiency within the broader gaming ecosystem that just makes fucking everyone a bunch of money. You know? Right. Right.

Shane Mercer [00:53:12]:

You you you talked a little bit there about you coming sort of at it from from the media side, and I wanna sort of touch on that a little bit because, you guys are sort of, taking perhaps a nontraditional approach to your marketing, your storytelling, the way that you engage on social media is is a little bit different, and you come at it from a very sort of community minded aspect. Just can can you sort of, you know, give our audience a bit of a rundown in terms of your approach on that side of things as far as it goes in terms of getting the wager wire name out there?

Travis Geiger [00:53:44]:

Totally. So I think that this is something that somehow got lost when this big rush happened is that betting used to be a personal or community experience. You walked into a casino even if you lost all your money, you would shake Sid Caesar's hand on the way out. Right? Or Kirk Kerkorian's hand or, you know, you like Derek Stevens is the rare example of that still happening in the brick and mortar Vegas world. Right? But no one knows who runs DraftKings or FanDuel, really. Right? These are, like, nameless, faceless organizations, and they might have their own subcommunities on Reddit or whatever. But whenever something comes from corporate, it sounds like a shill or what and even these cash out conversations on social. There's just people shitting on the book.

Travis Geiger [00:54:20]:

So how do we actually create a community of bettors because we actually are on the side of the bettors insofar as we're not making money when they lose, so we have that trust. And we don't we think a lot of this betting, just advertising, the way that they're marketing it like product is really tacky. So how do we be authentic? And we just found sports fans who have a passion for betting. They have a passion for sports. And they were kind of shouting into the void, but we liked their voice, so we started to platform them and said, hey. Like, what you say is just as valid as what anyone else says, and we are able to get, like, a really nice community of sports fans first and then a community of bettors. And now I'm talking to you guys, talking to, you know, Bill Krachenberger's on board with our media side of the things. Matthew Barry is on board with our media side of things, Captain Jack.

Travis Geiger [00:55:05]:

Like, we're all kinda rising up together because betting is the new lifestyle. And I mean it, like, how video games were a lifestyle or extreme sports were a lifestyle. Everything has a kind of moment where the niche becomes, like, the prompt predominant culture, and with that comes music and fashion and energy drinks and food and yeah. Any food and beverage, but that hasn't come in here yet because it hadn't been derisked. And so right now, you guys are sponsored by Pinnacle, but I bet you you'll have a Mountain Dew thing in your corner in just a couple years because Hopefully, I hope not.

Shane Mercer [00:55:37]:

I hope not. Hopefully, not Mountain Dew. I will not be drinking any Mountain Dew here on the show.

Andrew Pace [00:55:42]:

I think some of our users would say, hopefully, it would be Guru.

Shane Mercer [00:55:46]:

Yeah. Guru.

Andrew Pace [00:55:47]:

But I've also kicked them into the cab. Maybe Zevia.

Shane Mercer [00:55:50]:

I havent seen you drink a Guru in a while, PACE.

Andrew Pace [00:55:52]:

Yeah. I know. I I switched I switched off. Sorry, Guru. It's I know you're listening to this.

Travis Geiger [00:55:57]:

They're gonna sell these coffee mugs on the Wagerwire store. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Andrew Pace [00:56:01]:

There you go. There you go. Get the conspiracy theorist running and and rocking and rolling. Yeah. That's it's it's cool. And I, I I agree to certainly the lifestyle comment from an inplayLIVE standpoint at our company because it's it's become a lifestyle for our our members without without question. Yeah. Mhmm.

Andrew Pace [00:56:18]:

How much that's that translates to the the broader market, I don't know. But, yeah.

Travis Geiger [00:56:22]:

And so, like, when and that you said a chief experience officer. I'm really the chief marketing officer. No one likes to be marketed at. You know what I mean? It's like so shame my idea was if I invite them into experience, then they're talking to chief experience officer. It's gonna feel like something's happening. They're not just being sold something. That's kinda really what how it does feel. And then because of that, people come on our show really not has come on our show so far.

Travis Geiger [00:56:44]:

They don't really expect anything. They just wanna be seen or heard. We have players parents on. We have psychologists on for people, especially after bad beats. We have a lot of women focused shows. We look at, like, pop culture and media. But our core data vis content is actually really interesting too, and we wanna make sports betting like day trading. You can look at and if you go on wagewire.com/graph, you can even make financial charts of odds, movements, and bet values, and things like that.

Travis Geiger [00:57:10]:

But like you said, I'm new to this. I came from I mean, I cofounded that at UCLA. I was working in, like, Hollywood proper. I got to work with some cool people like Steven Spielberg and Michael Mann, Eli Roth. But this I couldn't believe this idea wasn't being done, and I didn't think that sports betting media had parity to the excitement of the sports themselves, and that there was somehow room for something, and I didn't know what it was yet. That coupled with my disenchantment is why I'm here today talking to you.

Andrew Pace [00:57:40]:

Nice. There you go.

Shane Mercer [00:57:41]:

Very, very cool Travis.

Andrew Pace [00:57:42]:

Shane. I wanna I wanna be reasked the Billy flip question.

Shane Mercer [00:57:48]:

You you you wanna be reasked it?

Andrew Pace [00:57:50]:

Yeah. Because now I can say I'll just get out for 499.5 million at Wagerwire.

Shane Mercer [00:57:57]:

Oh, that's a that's a great point. That's a that makes a lot of sense. Right? I'll just post my my my my, you know, my potential here, and, yeah, somebody will Wagerwire. I'll figure it out for me. I love it.

Andrew Pace [00:58:10]:

Yeah. Yeah. Really cool stuff, Travis. We're I think we're super excited to follow the journey, and, I think we'll probably have a couple people that once things are up and running, we'll be, maybe looking for some nice buys over on your site. And I was thinking about, you know, maybe selling a couple of my older items that are having a tough time moving on marketplace right now through Wagerwire. You know, if we can sell anything, I'm ready

Travis Geiger [00:58:30]:

Hey man were ready for it.

Shane Mercer [00:58:36]:

If there's a buyer. Right? Well, Travis, where can people find you? How can they hit you up and and have a great experience?

Travis Geiger [00:58:43]:

Yeah. The best time is over on x. We're at WagerWire. Also, hit up the app store though. You can sync and track all your bets. We have a community in there, all of our content in there. We're also on TikTok or IG for people that are into that. Just wager wire, one word.

Travis Geiger [00:58:55]:

We usually get you there. And, yeah. Look for us on shows like this. I hope to come back and, you know, continue the conversation, hopefully, with one of your bets for sale.

Shane Mercer [00:59:05]:

Hey. That would be pretty cool. Yeah. Travis, we'd love to have you back and and, yeah, maybe maybe, you know, negotiate a sale. I think that'd be fun. Mhmm. Alright. Well, pace, Travis, and to all of you sports bettors tuning in from around the world, till next week, keep beating those books.

Shane Mercer [00:59:21]:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Behind the Lines. Remember to like, download, and subscribe. We are on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Have a betting story or wanna be featured on our podcast? Drop a note in the comments below. And if you wanna join inplayLIVE, use promo code BEHINDTHELINES.